skeeto's recent activity

  1. Comment on Tildes should not use hard line breaks for line endings in ~tildes

    skeeto Link Parent
    Sorry, I didn't mean for this to come off as an ultimatum. That's just the reality of it. I've abandoned or ignored plenty of other platforms and software for similar negative UI experiences. For...

    Sorry, I didn't mean for this to come off as an ultimatum. That's just the reality of it. I've abandoned or ignored plenty of other platforms and software for similar negative UI experiences. For example:

    • Twitter is a huge, popular platform, but I hate pretty much everything about its UI. Because of this, I never bothered registering an account, and I only follow links to Twitter by accident (and immediately back out of them).

    • YouTube's comment system seems like it's designed to discourage its use. I tried using it for awhile since it's the only way to interact with some YouTubers. I even jumped through the Google+ hoops in order to keep commenting, but eventually I gave up because it's so bad and useless.

    • Google+ was awfully designed. For several years the site didn't even page-scroll properly in Firefox. Even if it wasn't a ghost town I would never have used it just because of its bad UI.

    • Patreon's website is so slow and clunky. My laptop fan spins up soon after I log into the site. Two years ago I got so irritated with it that I completely stopped using. I was supporting two different content creators at the time. (Fortunately one of them accepts donations via other means.)

    • I don't even bother following Medium links anymore. I'm tired of adding dickbar-removal rules to my adblocker. On Reddit I just downvote them and move on.

    • If Reddit ever gets rid of its "old" interface, I would immediately stop using it. I tried the redesign and I just can't stand it.

    In the case of those first five, I never voiced my opinion about my problems with their sites. That would be a waste of my time. They're huge and have no interest in changing. It's also not very difficult for me to ignore these sites, so that's what I do.

    I want to like Tildes, and it's still young and small enough that something like this really could change. So much else about this site is done really well. That's why I took the time to comment on the line breaks. I'm on the "voice" part of "exit, voice, or loyalty."

    You are asking for what amounts to a convenience feature for an extreme edge case

    I don't think it's as extreme as you think it is. Tildes just isn't active enough yet for people to really notice. If you do a search, you can find lots of discussion online going back years about GitHub-flavored Markdown catching people off-guard. Technical writing is particularly sensitive to this sort of thing since it requires extra precision.

    Besides, getting these "edge cases" right is important. For example, GitHub supports an email-based workflow, but I bet more than 99% of its users aren't even aware of it. I suppose that makes it an "extreme" feature. (GitLab might support this too, but I haven't used it enough to know.) You can reply to issues, pull requests, etc. entirely from email. so most things can be handled through a combination of Git and email without touching a web browser... and it's awesome. I wouldn't respond to half the issues/PRs I get on GitHub if it weren't for this little feature.

    9 votes
  2. Comment on Tildes should not use hard line breaks for line endings in ~tildes

    skeeto Link Parent
    I agree. That is a part of Markdown that I've always disliked. What I described essentially how programmers have been writing prose in plain text for decades, wrapping a monospace font to 80...

    I similarly dislike how markdown ignores the number in numbered lists

    I agree. That is a part of Markdown that I've always disliked.

    Your particular work flow seems quite unique.

    What I described essentially how programmers have been writing prose in plain text for decades, wrapping a monospace font to 80 columns in a text editor. If it's processed by another system (TeX, troff, Markdown, etc.), then that next system reflows the text as needed (font settings, etc.). It's exactly the sort of thing Markdown was originally modeled after, particularly plain text email.

    4 votes
  3. Comment on Tildes should not use hard line breaks for line endings in ~tildes

    skeeto Link Parent
    Like I had said in my post, the majority of Markdown processors don't have this behavior, and they treat line feeds as if they was any other whitespace, just like HTML. That's how the original...

    and that sounds normal to me?

    Like I had said in my post, the majority of Markdown processors don't have this behavior, and they treat line feeds as if they was any other whitespace, just like HTML. That's how the original Markdown was specced. As you noticed, Tildes enables a special, non-default option in order to get this behavior.

    4 votes
  4. Comment on Tildes should not use hard line breaks for line endings in ~tildes

    skeeto (edited ) Link Parent
    Good idea, thank you. Edit: https://gitlab.com/tildes/tildes/merge_requests/56 Here's the rub: Right now it's far easier for me to simply stop using Tildes than work around its idiosyncratic...

    Consider creating an issue

    Good idea, thank you.

    Edit: https://gitlab.com/tildes/tildes/merge_requests/56

    manually removing single linebreaks from your text

    Here's the rub: Right now it's far easier for me to simply stop using Tildes than work around its idiosyncratic Markdown. I'm hoping this is just an oversight rather than an intentional design choice, because if it's the latter then it's unlikely to change.

    7 votes
  5. I'm new to Tildes, but I've been using Markdown-based comment systems for more than a decade: both Reddit and GitHub. My programming blog has been written in Markdown for the past 8 years. Overall...

    I'm new to Tildes, but I've been using Markdown-based comment systems
    for more than a decade: both Reddit and GitHub. My programming blog has
    been written in Markdown for the past 8 years. Overall I've probably
    written several novels worth of content in Markdown in my life.

    I've already noticed that Tildes has made a serious mistake in its
    handling of line endings: All line endings are treated as hard line
    breaks
    . This diverges from CommonMark and most uses of Markdown in
    practice. If I wanted a hard line break, I'd put two spaces at the end
    of the line, as specified by both CommonMark and the original Markdown.
    Line endings should be otherwise be soft.

    GitHub made the same mistake with its "GitHub-flavored Markdown," though
    fortunately this mistake has been limited to issues. GitHub README.md
    files don't have this behavior, nor does GitHub Pages. It the only other
    Markdown system I've used with this flaw.

    Why does this matter? If I'm writing more than a single sentence, I
    never edit my comment inside my web browser. I edit it using my text
    editor of choice, Vim, since it's far more comfortable. I don't even
    have to copy-paste the text between applications. Instead, I have an
    add-on, Tridactyl, that does this seemlessly and effortlessly.

    Hard line endings just don't work well with long prose — exactly the
    type of content that Tildes is encouraging — particularly when edited in
    a proper text editor that knows about paragraphs and can do its own line
    wrapping. Editing long lines is annoying and takes extra care. That's
    why we have soft line endings after all.

    I'm leaving all my line endings in this post so that you can see the
    mess Tildes makes with it, with the ragged right-hand side due to font
    differences. If I had written this in nearly any other Markdown system,
    the text would have flowed into the page without issues. It is a mistake
    for Tildes to do differently. This sort of compatibility issue is
    probably going to be annoying enough to keep me off the site.

    22 votes
  6. Comment on Ultima VII in ~games

    skeeto Link

    From the time that Richard and Robert Garriott first founded Origin
    Systems in order to publish Ultima III, the completion of one Ultima
    game was followed almost immediately by the beginning of work on the
    next. Ultima VI in early 1990 was no exception; there was time only
    for a wrap party and a couple of weeks of decompression before work
    started on Ultima VII.

    [...]

    Ultima VII remains an inspiring if occasionally infuriating experience
    well worth having, even if you don’t normally play CRPGs or couldn’t
    care less about the lore of Britannia.

  7. Comment on Tildes folks, are you learning another language or multilingual? in ~talk

    skeeto Link
    This week is the one year mark for me learning Esperanto. I've spent 20–30 minutes per day every day on it. Part of the motivation was that it would be the easiest way to become bilingual, since...

    This week is the one year mark for me learning Esperanto. I've spent
    20–30 minutes per day every day on it. Part of the motivation was that
    it would be the easiest way to become bilingual, since Esperanto is much
    easier to learn than other languages. I also wanted to find out if it
    would give me a different perspective on things, in a Sapir–Whorf sort
    of way.

    I've focused almost entirely on reading and writing — the primary way I
    expect to use it — not speaking or listening. At this point I know all
    the mechanics of the language, but I still have a ton of basic
    vocabulary to learn, which will come through practice.

    2 votes