7 votes

Has anyone with a WD NAS formatted drives for another system?

This is a total longshot. I moved away from a WD My Cloud EX4100 w/ 3x WD Reds to a new box. I bought two more drives for the new one to make the move easier.

After the move I took the drives out to format them only to find that each 4TB drive shows a partition of 1.8TB on any other system (diskpart with W10 LTSC, Disk Utility MacOS, and GParted with Ubuntu.) Inside the EX4100 the drives show their full capacity.. and I just don't get it.

I reached out to their support, but I don't expect much of a response.

Anybody have any idea why the heck this could be happening? This seems crazy. I don't mind buying more drives, but it seems like a waste when I've got 12TB just sitting there.

21 comments

  1. whbboyd
    Link
    If you don't care what's on the drives, just replace the partition table. I have no idea why WD would use unpartitioned space on the drive for storage, but weird behavior is par for the course for...

    If you don't care what's on the drives, just replace the partition table. I have no idea why WD would use unpartitioned space on the drive for storage, but weird behavior is par for the course for proprietary systems, so it certainly doesn't surprise me. On Linux, you can run fdisk -l as root to doublecheck everything; you should see output along the lines of

    $ sudo fdisk -l
    Disk /dev/sda: 931.51 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors
    Disk model: Samsung SSD 860 
    Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
    Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
    I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
    Disklabel type: gpt
    Disk identifier: <UUID>
    
    Device       Start        End    Sectors   Size Type
    /dev/sda1     2048     194559     192512    94M EFI System
    /dev/sda2   194560    2148351    1953792   954M Linux filesystem
    /dev/sda3  2148352 1953523711 1951375360 930.5G Linux filesystem
    
    
    Disk <etc>
    

    From what you're describing, it sounds like you should expect something along the lines of Disk /dev/whatever: 4000 GiB, 4<trillion> bytes, <many> sectors with partitions not adding up to the full size of the drive. If so, creating a new partition table with a single partition covering the entire drive will give you access to the full amount of storage (though will delete any data currently on the drive).

    5 votes
  2. [18]
    JXM
    Link
    So I had the exact same problem when my WD PR2100 NAS died on me a few years ago. Unfortunately, the solution was to get another drive and move the data from my WD NAS to a new disk manually, then...

    So I had the exact same problem when my WD PR2100 NAS died on me a few years ago. Unfortunately, the solution was to get another drive and move the data from my WD NAS to a new disk manually, then format the drives in the NAS before moving them to the new system and copying the data to the new NAS.

    Do you have an extra drive that you can spare as a temporary data store to transfer the files between systems?

    4 votes
    1. [17]
      tomf
      Link Parent
      I formatted these in the NAS, so they should be fine. In the NAS they all show up as 4TB as expected, but that's it. As with most problems, throwing money into a pit solves everything. thanks for...

      I formatted these in the NAS, so they should be fine. In the NAS they all show up as 4TB as expected, but that's it. As with most problems, throwing money into a pit solves everything.

      thanks for the help, /u/cfabbro, /u/whbboyd, and /u/Greg -- here are the respective outputs

      Disk /dev/sdc: 1.65 TiB, 1801763774464 bytes, 3519069872 sectors
      Disk model: EFRX-68N32N0
      Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
      Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
      I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
      Disklabel type: gpt
      Disk identifier: 8D3565F5-EE0D-49FD-9849-6F4355A1D387
      
      Device      Start        End    Sectors  Size Type
      /dev/sdc1      40     409639     409600  200M EFI System
      /dev/sdc2  411648 3519068159 3518656512  1.7T Microsoft basic data
      

      its like it simply disappeared :)

      2 votes
      1. [10]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        That is really bizarre! And not something I have ever seen before, which is a rarity when it comes to HDDs since I used to work in Computer Forensics/Data Recovery, and have dealt with all manner...

        That is really bizarre! And not something I have ever seen before, which is a rarity when it comes to HDDs since I used to work in Computer Forensics/Data Recovery, and have dealt with all manner of them over the years. But it's WD so it's honestly not that surprising some weird proprietary BS is going on with their drives. E.g. I just had to do the 3.3V pin trick to get my 12TB Elements drive working on my new PC.

        p.s. I am kinda curious now if EnCase (computer forensics software) would be able to see the full drive, all its contents, and figure out what is going on with it.

        4 votes
        1. [9]
          tomf
          Link Parent
          I love mods like that. I'm waiting on WD to get back to me about an out-of-warranty RMA exception. I doubt they'll go for it, but I figured it was worth asking about. I've seen a few folks with a...

          I love mods like that. I'm waiting on WD to get back to me about an out-of-warranty RMA exception. I doubt they'll go for it, but I figured it was worth asking about. I've seen a few folks with a similar issue around the ol' internet, but no solutions.

          I'd love to see what something like enCase pops up. There should be something similar that is opensource (maybe Arsenal?), but I'll wait to hear back from WD before I continue messing around

          2 votes
          1. [8]
            cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            EnCase is a remarkably comprehensive forensics suite for data acquisition and analysis, which includes imaging/cloning, partition/file system rebuilding, sector-by-sector and file...

            EnCase is a remarkably comprehensive forensics suite for data acquisition and analysis, which includes imaging/cloning, partition/file system rebuilding, sector-by-sector and file inspection/indexing, etc, etc, etc, etc. So unfortunately I doubt there is anything opensource that is remotely comparable to it. I would be happy to be proven wrong though, since it's ridiculously expensive, and so I am still using a license for an ancient version that I acquired at my old job.

            edit: Since you got the idea into my head now. The Best Open Source Digital Forensic Tools. Looks like there are actually some decent ones out there. Individually they may not be able to do everything EnCase can, but combined they might be able to come close.

            2 votes
            1. [7]
              tomf
              Link Parent
              sweet. If WD doesn't come through, I'll work my way through some of these.

              sweet. If WD doesn't come through, I'll work my way through some of these.

              2 votes
              1. [6]
                cfabbro
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                After doing a bit more digging, you might want to check this forum thread out: https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/wd-red-4tb-not-detected-correctly.19505/#post-393803 Seems like a similar...

                After doing a bit more digging, you might want to check this forum thread out:
                https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/wd-red-4tb-not-detected-correctly.19505/#post-393803

                Seems like a similar problem with the same model WD40EFRX drives, but also with a potential solution achieved by modifying the drives' host protected area:

                Some vendor-specific external drive enclosures (e.g. Maxtor, owned by Seagate since 2006) are known to use HPA to limit the capacity of unknown replacement hard drives installed into the enclosure. When this occurs, the drive may appear to be limited in size (e.g. 128 GB), which can look like a BIOS or dynamic drive overlay (DDO) problem. In this case, one must use software utilities (see below) that use READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS and SET MAX ADDRESS to change the drive's reported size back to its native size, and avoid using the external enclosure again with the affected drive.

                p.s. Notice that EnCase is listed in that Wikipedia entry under HPA identification and manipulation tools. ;) There are some other ones listed there that you could try though, including Sleuth Kit/Autopsy, which was actually mentioned in the Best OSS Forensic Tools article.

                3 votes
                1. [5]
                  tomf
                  Link Parent
                  this definitely seems to be on the right track. Once I hear from the overlords, I'll get to messing with this stuff. I'm not sure camcontrol is available under ubuntu. I installed sg3-utils, but...

                  this definitely seems to be on the right track. Once I hear from the overlords, I'll get to messing with this stuff. I'm not sure camcontrol is available under ubuntu. I installed sg3-utils, but it doesn't appear to be listed. Once I get into this, I'll just liveboot BSD, I guess. :)

                  2 votes
                  1. [4]
                    cfabbro
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    For Linux, apparently hdparm -N can do the job. See: https://forensicswiki.xyz/wiki/index.php?title=DCO_and_HPA

                    For Linux, apparently hdparm -N can do the job. See:
                    https://forensicswiki.xyz/wiki/index.php?title=DCO_and_HPA

                    3 votes
                    1. [3]
                      tomf
                      Link Parent
                      golden! I've got this bookmarked through tildes now. Thanks so much for all of this! I'm not some sort of Linux genius or anything, but I can manage... but this entire project has been completely...

                      golden! I've got this bookmarked through tildes now. Thanks so much for all of this! I'm not some sort of Linux genius or anything, but I can manage... but this entire project has been completely cursed with stupid, trivial hiccups. :)

                      2 votes
                      1. [2]
                        cfabbro
                        (edited )
                        Link Parent
                        NP. And that sucks to hear... but hopefully you'll figure it out and have a working NAS by the end of it. My new PC project has actually been going surprisingly well so far. Preview video for you,...

                        NP. And that sucks to hear... but hopefully you'll figure it out and have a working NAS by the end of it. My new PC project has actually been going surprisingly well so far. Preview video for you, if you're curious. I still have a lot of work to do, especially with cable management and setting up my room RGB stuff, but it's getting there.

                        2 votes
                        1. tomf
                          Link Parent
                          I can't wait to not think about this NAS. Today it decided that whatever kernel it was updated to wasn't good and totally borked until I fixed grub. haha. Your new setup is slick. Having colored...

                          I can't wait to not think about this NAS. Today it decided that whatever kernel it was updated to wasn't good and totally borked until I fixed grub. haha.

                          Your new setup is slick. Having colored lights in the room will be great, too

                          1 vote
      2. [4]
        Wulfsta
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        If you’ve already formatted them, try writing from /dev/null to the drive using dd. Might work? You can also use some flags to get dd to tell you how much data it has written. Edit: I only suggest...

        If you’ve already formatted them, try writing from /dev/null to the drive using dd. Might work?

        You can also use some flags to get dd to tell you how much data it has written.

        Edit: I only suggest this because it might let you write more than 2TiB to the drive, and give you a solid idea of the issue. More likely than not the device is reporting to the machine that it only has 3519069872 sectors, when it really has more. That or some other proprietary shenanigans with the hardware.

        2 votes
        1. [3]
          tomf
          Link Parent
          I'll give it a swing. I've got it mounted with a USB reader and its at /dev/sdc2 -- there should be a way to muck about with /dev/sdc, right?

          I'll give it a swing. I've got it mounted with a USB reader and its at /dev/sdc2 -- there should be a way to muck about with /dev/sdc, right?

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            Wulfsta
            Link Parent
            I think dd will write to devices like that, yes. I would just try to plug it into a sata or whatever the correct connection is for this purpose though - remove any intermediate hardware whenever...

            I think dd will write to devices like that, yes. I would just try to plug it into a sata or whatever the correct connection is for this purpose though - remove any intermediate hardware whenever you’re debugging something like this.

            Edit: Also I’m several beers deep, so please do read the man pages first…

            3 votes
            1. tomf
              Link Parent
              haha. welp, I tried this without borking anything. No dice, though. I'll wait on the WD support to see if they have anything of value to say. You'd think they'd have a public tool for these drives.

              haha. welp, I tried this without borking anything. No dice, though. I'll wait on the WD support to see if they have anything of value to say. You'd think they'd have a public tool for these drives.

              3 votes
      3. [2]
        whbboyd
        Link Parent
        Interesting. A couple more things you could try: It looks like WD Reds have jumper pins to configure the drive. It has historically been possible to configure some drives to lie about their...

        Interesting.

        A couple more things you could try:

        • It looks like WD Reds have jumper pins to configure the drive. It has historically been possible to configure some drives to lie about their capacity in order to work around software limitations. I couldn't find documentation for recent WD jumper settings, but if your drive has a jumper installed, you could try taking note of where, removing it, and seeing if that changes anything. (I wouldn't experiment too much with jumpers otherwise unless you can find documentation of them.)
        • You could try WD's own troubleshooting software.
        • WD's documentation of this is atrocious to nonexistent, but theoretically, it should be possible to upgrade or reset the drive's firmware. If you can figure out how, that would be something to try.
        2 votes
        1. tomf
          Link Parent
          WD is awful. I tried their troubleshooting software (Utilities and Dashboard) and neither recognizes the drives. haha

          WD is awful. I tried their troubleshooting software (Utilities and Dashboard) and neither recognizes the drives. haha

          3 votes
  3. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    What kind of partition type are the drives formatted in? MBR is limited to 2TB max, which could explain what you're seeing. If the drives aren't using MBR, then it could be that your WD NAS used...

    What kind of partition type are the drives formatted in? MBR is limited to 2TB max, which could explain what you're seeing. If the drives aren't using MBR, then it could be that your WD NAS used some proprietary partitioning setup for backup/redundancy, which may have needed a certain amount of unallocated space on each drive in order to function. And it certainly wouldn't be the first time I have seen a consumer grade NAS do something like that. :P

    On the plus side, regardless of why your partitions are so small (unless the drives are damaged), using a partition manager you should be able to convert the drives from MBR to GPT (which supports larger drives), expand the volumes using any unallocated space, and/or merge the volumes if there are multiple per HDD. I personally use AOMEI Partition Assistant for Windows, since it's comprehensive, incredibly easy to use, GUI based (I hate using CLI partition managers), and even the free version should have everything you need. But you should be able to do all the above with pretty much any partition manager too, so just find one that appeals to you and look for instructions on how to use it. Only certain ones, like AOMEI PA, can convert partition types and merge volumes without losing data though, so YMMV depending on which you choose and what you need to do.

    2 votes
  4. Greg
    Link
    To expand on what others have said, there's some interesting info here on a workaround for using >2TB drives on systems that only support MBR, so it's possible that the WD enclosure was doing some...

    To expand on what others have said, there's some interesting info here on a workaround for using >2TB drives on systems that only support MBR, so it's possible that the WD enclosure was doing some sector size trickery that isn't being recognised by the software you're using.

    If you can temporarily store the data elsewhere, creating a new GPT partition table should do the job.

    2 votes