So, that's kind of disingenuous. What is likely more common is heat pumps. They do both heating and cooling, and are incredibly efficient at both. I have a hybrid-electric heat pump water heater...
The overwhelming majority of Texas homes are outfitted with electric heaters that are the technological equivalent of a toaster oven. During the most severe cold fronts, residents crank up those inefficient units, and some even turn on and open electric ovens and use hair dryers.
So, that's kind of disingenuous. What is likely more common is heat pumps. They do both heating and cooling, and are incredibly efficient at both. I have a hybrid-electric heat pump water heater in my attached garage (much farther north than Texas). Annual running cost is $200, or roughly half an equivalent gas unit. The big problem with heat pumps is that the efficiency tanks below 45F. But, on aggregate, using heat pumps for heating/cooling in Texas is a massive win over traditional gas/AC combos. All-electric heat is a win for global warming as green electric sources take over.
The most disingenuous part however, is implying that somehow other electric heaters are not the technological equivalent of a toaster oven. Electric heat is pervasive outside of Texas as well, and it's just as inefficient there. For an over/under on efficient HVAC installs, I'd wager Texans have more heat pumps/capita than any more-northern state.
However, all of this requires a resilient grid, and sufficient redundant systems for power and heat for when the grid does fail. Texan legislator are certainly at fault for not addressing that. We (being everyone) need more residential incentives for solar, wind, and batteries. Wood-burning pellet stoves provide excellent off-grid backup heat.
According to this article, which links to other places (census, etc): https://www.nrdc.org/experts/alejandra-mejia-cunningham/other-solution-texas-woes-efficiency-and-heat-pumps I think it can be...
I think it can be gleaned from this that A) heat pumps aren't as ubiquitous as we often think (many have furnaces or other electrical heat), which might be a geographical thing, B) in Texas, another issue is poor insulation in much of its housing C) those that do have heat pumps or electric heat often have old/inefficient versions of them
I think Technology Connections did a video where he mentioned something about how there's a common assumption that actual heat pumps (cooling+heating combined systems) are more widespread than they actually are (which went against my perceptions at the time)
It sounds like Texas has the perfect storm (no pun intended) of a grid situation and a general state of housing and heating that makes them very susceptible to the problems they've had recently
Also, sorry to edit after the fact- but I scanned the article you linked a second time after reading it and I didn't get this from it at all:
"The most disingenuous part however, is implying that somehow other electric heaters are not the technological equivalent of a toaster oven."
That said, it's a long article and I might have missed it. But I don't think that's what it is saying- only that inefficient resistive heating (wherever it is, Texas or otherwise) combined with the existing grid problems is a recipe for problems. I at least didn't see anywhere that seemed to claim other resistive electric heat was not as bad?
This is not just a problem in Texas. Poor insulation is a problem throughout the entirety of the US on pretty much any house built since about 1940. The push to cheaper house materials to save on...
in Texas, another issue is poor insulation in much of its housing
This is not just a problem in Texas. Poor insulation is a problem throughout the entirety of the US on pretty much any house built since about 1940. The push to cheaper house materials to save on costs and the emphasis on wood and drywall have a markedly different feel than housing in many other countries. For much of my life I've found it annoying just how much temperature would fluctuate throughout the day and night in many of the places I've rented or owned on behalf of shitty insulating material, lots of single pane glass, poorly fitted doors, etc. I also used to hate how easy it was to hear my neighbors and street noise. I recently moved into a mid-rise building made of concrete and it's quite the improvement.
I'm not all that familiar with the history but this doesn't sound historically accurate? Older houses are often poorly insulated, drafty, and have single-pane windows. (If you go far enough back,...
I'm not all that familiar with the history but this doesn't sound historically accurate? Older houses are often poorly insulated, drafty, and have single-pane windows. (If you go far enough back, grids of small single panes.) I was also under the impression that interest in energy efficiency didn't really get going until the 1970's with the oil crisis.
It's difficult to find good information about the history of building construction. A search finds a lot of shallow histories. But it looks like the process by which modern glass is manufactured ("float glass") was invented in the 1950's.
Of course, lots of cheap housing continues to be built, and the older houses that survive are often better than average.
Likewise. I live in a run-down house built in the 1890s, and it's so much quieter and better insulated than my in-laws' much larger and more expensive house built in the 1990s. There, you can hear...
Likewise. I live in a run-down house built in the 1890s, and it's so much quieter and better insulated than my in-laws' much larger and more expensive house built in the 1990s. There, you can hear anyone moving from any other spot in the house, and their HVAC system needs to run near constantly if they want a comfortable temperature. In my house if I open the windows when it's cool and shut them and the curtains when the day starts to get warm it's a comfortable temperature all day.
I am going to jump in here, since nobody seems to be saying this. Also, I do think this is relevant, not just pedantry. All electric heating (excluding heat pumps, they are different) is 100%...
I am going to jump in here, since nobody seems to be saying this. Also, I do think this is relevant, not just pedantry.
All electric heating (excluding heat pumps, they are different) is 100% efficient. It converts all input energy into heat. Sometimes it also converts into light and air movement, but those energies eventually break down into heat. A space heater from 1920 is just as efficient as a many thousand dollar forced air electric heater made this year.
In the same way, computers are also 100% efficient heaters.
Edit: space heaters can sometimes be practically more efficient than electric house heating, since you only heat occupied rooms.
That's true if you define the system as the heater itself, but not if you include burning something to generate the electricity. Also, 100% efficient sounds like perfection but it's not the best...
That's true if you define the system as the heater itself, but not if you include burning something to generate the electricity. Also, 100% efficient sounds like perfection but it's not the best you can do.
That is all true. I only brought this up because of how this is being discussed. People are accusing Texans of not having adequately sized heating (this is true). Then they go on to imply that a...
That is all true.
I only brought this up because of how this is being discussed. People are accusing Texans of not having adequately sized heating (this is true).
Then they go on to imply that a properly sized forced air electric heater would have been better for the grid than people using space heaters, hair dryers, and ovens left open. This is so completely false. This is the misunderstanding I was hoping to address.
The only change to the grid would have been if people instead had gas heating or a heat pump (which may not have been a good solution, as discussed in this thread).
Where I live there is an energy efficiency program from the government. You invest ~$100CAD into getting an energy efficiency rating for your house - an assessor comes through, does some...
Where I live there is an energy efficiency program from the government. You invest ~$100CAD into getting an energy efficiency rating for your house - an assessor comes through, does some interesting tests for draftiness and goes down a list of pretty standard things regarding insulation, lights, windows. If you fix those problems within a year, you can get a very sizeable rebate: I got a couple thousand back from installation of a heat pump and insulation of my attic, although I could not afford to re-do the windows even with the rebate.
I would hope that many places have similar programs, but honestly even that was kind of a pain and there would be issues with wide adoption. I mean, I had to have the thousands of dollars to begin with to get the heat pump, only getting the rebate after. Plus I live in the house I own, meaning there's really not much incentive for landlords to do it because it's not like it's their comfort or power bills on the line.
The Technology Connections video on peak and valley grid demand was really cool too, by the way. I don't know much about electricity or the electrical grid, but I wonder if it'd be useful for new constructions to have some kind of incorporated battery that interfaces with the power provider to help even out demand by charging during low demand, and the power provider could request switching to it during high demand. I don't think it'd ever happen, but it's nice to think about.
It wasn't a direct claim, more of an implication of the tone in the bit I qouted. "Look at that dolt using a hair dryer to heat their home. If only they had a larger electric heater." The heaters...
It wasn't a direct claim, more of an implication of the tone in the bit I qouted. "Look at that dolt using a hair dryer to heat their home. If only they had a larger electric heater."
The heaters being undersized for homes wasn't the main problem. If anything, having properly sized heaters in every residence would have likely made the situation described even worse.
I really don't mean to be so pedantic...the article is filled with a wonderful breakdown about how and why everything is fubar in Texas.
Heat pumps are good under normal conditions but the issue here is what happens under extreme conditions. I think if it gets cold enough, heat pumps are so inefficient that some systems switch to...
Heat pumps are good under normal conditions but the issue here is what happens under extreme conditions. I think if it gets cold enough, heat pumps are so inefficient that some systems switch to resistive heating as backup? That seems like a bad backup, since it makes everything worse.
I'm wondering what a good backup heating system would be. Maybe something using a propane tank?
Yes, most do. The thing is...all electric heating is resistive heating. Baseboard heating or forced air, doesn't matter. If it's electric, and not a heat pump, it's resistive. Which accounts for...
I think if it gets cold enough, heat pumps are so inefficient that some systems switch to resistive heating as backup
Yes, most do. The thing is...all electric heating is resistive heating. Baseboard heating or forced air, doesn't matter. If it's electric, and not a heat pump, it's resistive. Which accounts for the heating of 7/10 places I have lived in my life.
For backup heating, something off-grid is best. This is true for everyone, not just Texas. You can't rely 100% on the electric or gas grid.
I personally favor wood burning if it's mostly for emergencies. Low-tech is often better in those cases....it's pretty easy to score some flammable materials over petrochemicals. Kero/Propane/Oil heaters work in a pinch if you keep your tanks full.
So, that's kind of disingenuous. What is likely more common is heat pumps. They do both heating and cooling, and are incredibly efficient at both. I have a hybrid-electric heat pump water heater in my attached garage (much farther north than Texas). Annual running cost is $200, or roughly half an equivalent gas unit. The big problem with heat pumps is that the efficiency tanks below 45F. But, on aggregate, using heat pumps for heating/cooling in Texas is a massive win over traditional gas/AC combos. All-electric heat is a win for global warming as green electric sources take over.
The most disingenuous part however, is implying that somehow other electric heaters are not the technological equivalent of a toaster oven. Electric heat is pervasive outside of Texas as well, and it's just as inefficient there. For an over/under on efficient HVAC installs, I'd wager Texans have more heat pumps/capita than any more-northern state.
However, all of this requires a resilient grid, and sufficient redundant systems for power and heat for when the grid does fail. Texan legislator are certainly at fault for not addressing that. We (being everyone) need more residential incentives for solar, wind, and batteries. Wood-burning pellet stoves provide excellent off-grid backup heat.
According to this article, which links to other places (census, etc): https://www.nrdc.org/experts/alejandra-mejia-cunningham/other-solution-texas-woes-efficiency-and-heat-pumps
I think it can be gleaned from this that A) heat pumps aren't as ubiquitous as we often think (many have furnaces or other electrical heat), which might be a geographical thing, B) in Texas, another issue is poor insulation in much of its housing C) those that do have heat pumps
or electric heatoften have old/inefficient versions of themI think Technology Connections did a video where he mentioned something about how there's a common assumption that actual heat pumps (cooling+heating combined systems) are more widespread than they actually are (which went against my perceptions at the time)
It sounds like Texas has the perfect storm (no pun intended) of a grid situation and a general state of housing and heating that makes them very susceptible to the problems they've had recently
Also, sorry to edit after the fact- but I scanned the article you linked a second time after reading it and I didn't get this from it at all:
That said, it's a long article and I might have missed it. But I don't think that's what it is saying- only that inefficient resistive heating (wherever it is, Texas or otherwise) combined with the existing grid problems is a recipe for problems. I at least didn't see anywhere that seemed to claim other resistive electric heat was not as bad?
This is not just a problem in Texas. Poor insulation is a problem throughout the entirety of the US on pretty much any house built since about 1940. The push to cheaper house materials to save on costs and the emphasis on wood and drywall have a markedly different feel than housing in many other countries. For much of my life I've found it annoying just how much temperature would fluctuate throughout the day and night in many of the places I've rented or owned on behalf of shitty insulating material, lots of single pane glass, poorly fitted doors, etc. I also used to hate how easy it was to hear my neighbors and street noise. I recently moved into a mid-rise building made of concrete and it's quite the improvement.
I'm not all that familiar with the history but this doesn't sound historically accurate? Older houses are often poorly insulated, drafty, and have single-pane windows. (If you go far enough back, grids of small single panes.) I was also under the impression that interest in energy efficiency didn't really get going until the 1970's with the oil crisis.
It's difficult to find good information about the history of building construction. A search finds a lot of shallow histories. But it looks like the process by which modern glass is manufactured ("float glass") was invented in the 1950's.
Of course, lots of cheap housing continues to be built, and the older houses that survive are often better than average.
Likewise. I live in a run-down house built in the 1890s, and it's so much quieter and better insulated than my in-laws' much larger and more expensive house built in the 1990s. There, you can hear anyone moving from any other spot in the house, and their HVAC system needs to run near constantly if they want a comfortable temperature. In my house if I open the windows when it's cool and shut them and the curtains when the day starts to get warm it's a comfortable temperature all day.
I am going to jump in here, since nobody seems to be saying this. Also, I do think this is relevant, not just pedantry.
All electric heating (excluding heat pumps, they are different) is 100% efficient. It converts all input energy into heat. Sometimes it also converts into light and air movement, but those energies eventually break down into heat. A space heater from 1920 is just as efficient as a many thousand dollar forced air electric heater made this year.
In the same way, computers are also 100% efficient heaters.
Edit: space heaters can sometimes be practically more efficient than electric house heating, since you only heat occupied rooms.
That's true if you define the system as the heater itself, but not if you include burning something to generate the electricity. Also, 100% efficient sounds like perfection but it's not the best you can do.
That is all true.
I only brought this up because of how this is being discussed. People are accusing Texans of not having adequately sized heating (this is true).
Then they go on to imply that a properly sized forced air electric heater would have been better for the grid than people using space heaters, hair dryers, and ovens left open. This is so completely false. This is the misunderstanding I was hoping to address.
The only change to the grid would have been if people instead had gas heating or a heat pump (which may not have been a good solution, as discussed in this thread).
That's a good point. Modified my "C" statement to make it more accurate based on this
Where I live there is an energy efficiency program from the government. You invest ~$100CAD into getting an energy efficiency rating for your house - an assessor comes through, does some interesting tests for draftiness and goes down a list of pretty standard things regarding insulation, lights, windows. If you fix those problems within a year, you can get a very sizeable rebate: I got a couple thousand back from installation of a heat pump and insulation of my attic, although I could not afford to re-do the windows even with the rebate.
I would hope that many places have similar programs, but honestly even that was kind of a pain and there would be issues with wide adoption. I mean, I had to have the thousands of dollars to begin with to get the heat pump, only getting the rebate after. Plus I live in the house I own, meaning there's really not much incentive for landlords to do it because it's not like it's their comfort or power bills on the line.
The Technology Connections video on peak and valley grid demand was really cool too, by the way. I don't know much about electricity or the electrical grid, but I wonder if it'd be useful for new constructions to have some kind of incorporated battery that interfaces with the power provider to help even out demand by charging during low demand, and the power provider could request switching to it during high demand. I don't think it'd ever happen, but it's nice to think about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f9GpMWdvWI <- the video
It wasn't a direct claim, more of an implication of the tone in the bit I qouted. "Look at that dolt using a hair dryer to heat their home. If only they had a larger electric heater."
The heaters being undersized for homes wasn't the main problem. If anything, having properly sized heaters in every residence would have likely made the situation described even worse.
I really don't mean to be so pedantic...the article is filled with a wonderful breakdown about how and why everything is fubar in Texas.
Heat pumps are good under normal conditions but the issue here is what happens under extreme conditions. I think if it gets cold enough, heat pumps are so inefficient that some systems switch to resistive heating as backup? That seems like a bad backup, since it makes everything worse.
I'm wondering what a good backup heating system would be. Maybe something using a propane tank?
Edit: this article has some interesting options.
Yes, most do. The thing is...all electric heating is resistive heating. Baseboard heating or forced air, doesn't matter. If it's electric, and not a heat pump, it's resistive. Which accounts for the heating of 7/10 places I have lived in my life.
For backup heating, something off-grid is best. This is true for everyone, not just Texas. You can't rely 100% on the electric or gas grid.
I personally favor wood burning if it's mostly for emergencies. Low-tech is often better in those cases....it's pretty easy to score some flammable materials over petrochemicals. Kero/Propane/Oil heaters work in a pinch if you keep your tanks full.
Wood makes sense if you're set up for it but wouldn't work for apartments. Chimneys are getting kind of rare, and they do need to be maintained.