““The pellet can be dropped into standard plastic manufacturing equipment and be injection moulded or extruded into blown films, so we can create rigid and flexible applications,” says Fionnuala....
““The pellet can be dropped into standard plastic manufacturing equipment and be injection moulded or extruded into blown films, so we can create rigid and flexible applications,” says Fionnuala. “That was sort of the big breakthrough.”
It means manufacturers don’t need to upgrade or replace their equipment, just simply swap out their fossil fuel-derived plastic pellets for Kelpy’s seaweed alternative.”
Incredible breakthrough. Really hope this startup is successful, can scale up easily, and can persuade lots of companies to make the switch!
It's a great idea. But it misses the problem entirely by solving a patch over it. The issue is that we're buying crap for the sake of it. If we're still buying things that are bad for the...
It's a great idea. But it misses the problem entirely by solving a patch over it.
The issue is that we're buying crap for the sake of it. If we're still buying things that are bad for the environment and wrapping them in this stuff, what's the change?
The change is that this is marine biodegradable and compostable, so many of the issues with plastic disappear. I think this is a great innovation. Personally I think we’ve tried getting people to...
The change is that this is marine biodegradable and compostable, so many of the issues with plastic disappear. I think this is a great innovation. Personally I think we’ve tried getting people to do more and buy less and it isn’t working because not enough people care. We absolutely need to get to the source and make companies responsible for producing less packaging and making the packaging they still produce more environmentally friendly
Did we do enough? I doubt it. The fact thst we told people to recycle... Then it just got shipped overseas with zero accountability. What we need to do, is change the system that is causing so...
Did we do enough? I doubt it. The fact thst we told people to recycle... Then it just got shipped overseas with zero accountability.
What we need to do, is change the system that is causing so much of this waste and problems. We will not technology or buy our way out of the climate crisis.
You're allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. There's no single route out of the climate crisis and we can do multiple things at once. Alternatives to single-use plastics mean reduced...
You're allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. There's no single route out of the climate crisis and we can do multiple things at once.
Alternatives to single-use plastics mean reduced dependence on hydrocarbons and reduced plastic waste in landfills. That's a clear unalloyed win, even with no corresponding change in consumer behavior.
This is good news. Take the wins where you can find them.
Be mindful about plastic greenwashing. Plant based plastics are more likely just as bad, if not worse, for the environment that properly labeled plastics that can be recycled. See e.g.:...
Be mindful about plastic greenwashing. Plant based plastics are more likely just as bad, if not worse, for the environment that properly labeled plastics that can be recycled.
Okay. But neither of those articles address the kind of production the article talks about. Properly labeled plastics that can be recycled, and that do get recycled, are great. Short of never...
Okay. But neither of those articles address the kind of production the article talks about.
Properly labeled plastics that can be recycled, and that do get recycled, are great. Short of never making them in the first place, that's the best case scenario. But as you're probably already aware, the vast majority of plastics (more than 90% of all plastics, and virtually all single-use plastics) are never recycled.
Increasing the amount of plastics that can be effectively recycled, and then increasing the amount of plastics that actually are recycled, are both goals we should be pursuing. In the meantime, all other things being equal, sourcing single-use plastics from seaweed instead of fossil fuels is a win.
I can only speak of my local waste management. There are so called "compostable" trash bags. The idea is to use them with food waste and other biodegradable waste. The problem is just that the...
I can only speak of my local waste management. There are so called "compostable" trash bags. The idea is to use them with food waste and other biodegradable waste. The problem is just that the most common industrial scale composting method is too quick for these bags to actually decompose. But the manufacturers don't tell you that, or only in the fine print. So now we have plastics in the biodegradable waste, and it won't biodegrade. Oops.
You're absolutely right that we should do multiple avenues, I'm okay with that. The reality is though, so much is driven by systemic issues that we need to address and dismantle, changing from one...
You're absolutely right that we should do multiple avenues, I'm okay with that. The reality is though, so much is driven by systemic issues that we need to address and dismantle, changing from one type of plastic to something else just won't see as much impact. The reality is, people are still going to continue to buy crap they don't need and probably buy more because they now don't see their impact as "so high".
That really is the crux of it. Expecting ground up change from users is a long and slow process. Banning manufacture is a fast one. We'd do a lot of good by banning the sale of drinks in...
That really is the crux of it. Expecting ground up change from users is a long and slow process.
Banning manufacture is a fast one. We'd do a lot of good by banning the sale of drinks in plastic..force them back to aluminum and glass. Make them resoponsible for collecting and reusing the packaging they manufacture, with rapidly scaling up fines for shortages (collect none? dismantle company).
Bet dairies switch back to reusable glass in a heartbeat.
I totally agree that we should all be consuming less I just have absolutely no faith in people to do it. I also think we’re past that point. Had we started decades ago maybe we would be at a point...
I totally agree that we should all be consuming less I just have absolutely no faith in people to do it. I also think we’re past that point. Had we started decades ago maybe we would be at a point now where people are largely conscious of their buying habits, but as it stands we have huge groups of people who don’t believe anything to do with the environment is a real issue as well as a large majority of the world where people are too poor to be able to care about this.
Legislation is fast and, if properly worded and enforced, effective.
Yes, bring back milkmen! (Milk deliverers? I can’t think of a gender neutral term. Probably in australia we will call them Milkies in the vein of posties)
I'm all in favor of keeping it Milkman, but only so this remains relevant. Seriously though I like Milkies. Consumption is much like a drug. It needs treated the same way an addiction is. We...
Consumption is much like a drug. It needs treated the same way an addiction is. We should start mandating anti-consumption ads that must run alongside regular ads, the way they used to do for smoking.
"That last ad showed something pretty neat huh? Well here's what its doing to the planet (pan over plastic islands in ocean and dead whales)."
The main problem with the material in the article is that it is pure greenwashing. Plastic is starting to get a bad rep, so companies are trying to make up materials that can be marketed as...
The main problem with the material in the article is that it is pure greenwashing. Plastic is starting to get a bad rep, so companies are trying to make up materials that can be marketed as not-plastic (Even though they are).
All the platics I have heard of that contain some sort of plant based matter become un-recyclable. Whereas today, most plastics ARE recycleable.
In terms of the palmolive soap bottles, they'd probably do more for the environment if they would just stick to some easily recycleable plastic, e.g. PET.
There's very little talked about the specifics of the material from the main article, if they would have actually invented a biopolymer that has all the properties of say PET, and contained no...
There's very little talked about the specifics of the material from the main article, if they would have actually invented a biopolymer that has all the properties of say PET, and contained no virgin plastic, then they would be yelling that from the mountaintops while becoming billionaires.
I don't think we (as a species) have the luxury of "we've got to many small changes" anymore. It's a nice idea, but we've really got to start thinking about big bang movements to get things going...
I don't think we (as a species) have the luxury of "we've got to many small changes" anymore. It's a nice idea, but we've really got to start thinking about big bang movements to get things going in the right direction.
People are permitted to be negative, infact... it'd be helpful if we weren't all so frustratingly happy-clappy about climate change progress all the time. At least then we could start looking and...
Again, I get you. But unless you would like to discuss solutions and strategies on how to achieve that, all I see is you throwing kibosh and being negative.
People are permitted to be negative, infact... it'd be helpful if we weren't all so frustratingly happy-clappy about climate change progress all the time. At least then we could start looking and having honest conversations about just how absolutely fucked we are unless we change the system we're in.
I highly recommend that you give "Less is more" by Jason Hickel a read if you fancy a roadmap on how to do this.
Plastic packaging production, transportation and disposal accounts for a very big chunk of plastic pollution. I think that replacing all packaging with a non-plastic one can be a very positive...
Plastic packaging production, transportation and disposal accounts for a very big chunk of plastic pollution.
I think that replacing all packaging with a non-plastic one can be a very positive change.
I'm not detracting this, I know how bad the plastic packaging is. But a drastically better step is not needing it at all. We buy so much disposable "stuff", that we end up in a world of hurt...
I'm not detracting this, I know how bad the plastic packaging is.
But a drastically better step is not needing it at all. We buy so much disposable "stuff", that we end up in a world of hurt because we're wrapping said stuff in plastics.
We need to start thinking about longevity and individual ownership concepts at the same time. This is just a patch on the social/economic system that is causing huge problems for nature.
It's a great idea, but it's just not the solution we need. We still think we're going to technology ourselves out of this crisis.
I mean, if they can make an equivalent alternative to the plastic dog poop bag I'm all ears. Needs to hold together for at least 2 hours under the runniest of poops. If it can biodegrade in...
I mean, if they can make an equivalent alternative to the plastic dog poop bag I'm all ears. Needs to hold together for at least 2 hours under the runniest of poops. If it can biodegrade in regular compost after that I can setup a dog poop compost pit in the backyard.
I avoid plastics as much as I can, but picking up poop is one case I really have trouble quitting.
This seems like a puff piece, I am not sure the truth is so rosy as what the article claims. If the material can be used akin to plastic in regular injection molding machines, then the material...
This seems like a puff piece, I am not sure the truth is so rosy as what the article claims.
If the material can be used akin to plastic in regular injection molding machines, then the material most likely has most of the properties of the various plastic polymers we use. I.e. all the nasty binders and plasticisers and so on.
Worst case, this is just another one of those hybrid plastics where they put some non-polymer material into the blend in order to claim to be good for the environment, when all they do is make the plastic packaging unrecycleable.
Anything that behaves like plastic, will most probably behave like plastic. I.e. not biodegrade in any sensible timelines, as well as contain chemicals which are harmful to human and other animals.
Also, if Palmolive would want to ditch plastic packaging? Stop selling liquid soap. Sell powders that are mixed at home with water, or sell bar soap/shampoo. Then you can package it in cardboard or paper. No plastic, or plastic derrivatives. Your product can be packaged in rectangular packages, it stacks better, uses up volume better, is dryer so it lasts longer and so on.
But customers want convenience, and money talks, so nature will suffer.
I wrote in a comment elsewhere, plastic today is already very recycleable. E.g. PET and HDPE. These are widely used plastics for product packaging and can easily be re-used and recycled. If you...
I wrote in a comment elsewhere, plastic today is already very recycleable. E.g. PET and HDPE. These are widely used plastics for product packaging and can easily be re-used and recycled. If you have a product such as e.g. liquid soap that can't for obvious reasons be packaged in cardboard, this is most likely the most environmentally friendly alternative.
Plastics that contain polymerized plant matter become custom plastics, that have their own resin code. These plastics will still behave like plastics, they will still have to contain plasticisers and other binders that are harmful to life.
Bioplastics and biodegradeable plastics and the like are all greenwashing. These types of plastics break down faster than virgin plastic, but they still break down and cause microplastics as well as leech toxic chemicals into the environment. Plastic is not an inert material.
There are multiple ways companies can alter their business models to be more environmentally friendly without greenwashing.
Changing product formul when you can, e.g. sell bar soap, flakes, and powders instead of liquid soap
--> You can now use e.g. paper and cardboard
--> Your product is more dense and you don't transport water
Use packaging that is recycleable, like PET or HDPE, aluminum, glass, or cardboard/paper
Avoid combined materials like plastic coated cardboard, or plastic packaging that contain multiple types of plastic molded together
Produce products closer to the consumer, and choose shipping methods that are more environmentally friendly E.g. containers over trucks
Great if it pans out at scale, but it seems like there's always another revolutionary plastic replacement that aren't actually feasible. I wouldn't be surprised if these attract pests like the soy...
Great if it pans out at scale, but it seems like there's always another revolutionary plastic replacement that aren't actually feasible.
I wouldn't be surprised if these attract pests like the soy used in wire insulation resulting in rats eating through wiring. Or not being appropriate for perishables.
Yes, lots of these end up not being feasible but I think each innovation is worth celebrating because even if it fails to live up to the potential, it tells us something. Each failure brings us...
Yes, lots of these end up not being feasible but I think each innovation is worth celebrating because even if it fails to live up to the potential, it tells us something. Each failure brings us closer to one that’s viable. I’m still hopeful every time that this will be The One, though!
““The pellet can be dropped into standard plastic manufacturing equipment and be injection moulded or extruded into blown films, so we can create rigid and flexible applications,” says Fionnuala. “That was sort of the big breakthrough.”
It means manufacturers don’t need to upgrade or replace their equipment, just simply swap out their fossil fuel-derived plastic pellets for Kelpy’s seaweed alternative.”
Incredible breakthrough. Really hope this startup is successful, can scale up easily, and can persuade lots of companies to make the switch!
It's a great idea. But it misses the problem entirely by solving a patch over it.
The issue is that we're buying crap for the sake of it. If we're still buying things that are bad for the environment and wrapping them in this stuff, what's the change?
The change is that this is marine biodegradable and compostable, so many of the issues with plastic disappear. I think this is a great innovation. Personally I think we’ve tried getting people to do more and buy less and it isn’t working because not enough people care. We absolutely need to get to the source and make companies responsible for producing less packaging and making the packaging they still produce more environmentally friendly
Did we do enough? I doubt it. The fact thst we told people to recycle... Then it just got shipped overseas with zero accountability.
What we need to do, is change the system that is causing so much of this waste and problems. We will not technology or buy our way out of the climate crisis.
You're allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. There's no single route out of the climate crisis and we can do multiple things at once.
Alternatives to single-use plastics mean reduced dependence on hydrocarbons and reduced plastic waste in landfills. That's a clear unalloyed win, even with no corresponding change in consumer behavior.
This is good news. Take the wins where you can find them.
Be mindful about plastic greenwashing. Plant based plastics are more likely just as bad, if not worse, for the environment that properly labeled plastics that can be recycled.
See e.g.: https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/blog/2023/4/19/how-to-recognize-plastic-pollution-greenwashing
https://mikacycle.medium.com/bioplastics-the-behind-the-scenes-greenwashing-12834df87e0a
Okay. But neither of those articles address the kind of production the article talks about.
Properly labeled plastics that can be recycled, and that do get recycled, are great. Short of never making them in the first place, that's the best case scenario. But as you're probably already aware, the vast majority of plastics (more than 90% of all plastics, and virtually all single-use plastics) are never recycled.
Increasing the amount of plastics that can be effectively recycled, and then increasing the amount of plastics that actually are recycled, are both goals we should be pursuing. In the meantime, all other things being equal, sourcing single-use plastics from seaweed instead of fossil fuels is a win.
I can only speak of my local waste management. There are so called "compostable" trash bags. The idea is to use them with food waste and other biodegradable waste. The problem is just that the most common industrial scale composting method is too quick for these bags to actually decompose. But the manufacturers don't tell you that, or only in the fine print. So now we have plastics in the biodegradable waste, and it won't biodegrade. Oops.
You're absolutely right that we should do multiple avenues, I'm okay with that. The reality is though, so much is driven by systemic issues that we need to address and dismantle, changing from one type of plastic to something else just won't see as much impact. The reality is, people are still going to continue to buy crap they don't need and probably buy more because they now don't see their impact as "so high".
That really is the crux of it. Expecting ground up change from users is a long and slow process.
Banning manufacture is a fast one. We'd do a lot of good by banning the sale of drinks in plastic..force them back to aluminum and glass. Make them resoponsible for collecting and reusing the packaging they manufacture, with rapidly scaling up fines for shortages (collect none? dismantle company).
Bet dairies switch back to reusable glass in a heartbeat.
I totally agree that we should all be consuming less I just have absolutely no faith in people to do it. I also think we’re past that point. Had we started decades ago maybe we would be at a point now where people are largely conscious of their buying habits, but as it stands we have huge groups of people who don’t believe anything to do with the environment is a real issue as well as a large majority of the world where people are too poor to be able to care about this.
Legislation is fast and, if properly worded and enforced, effective.
Yes, bring back milkmen! (Milk deliverers? I can’t think of a gender neutral term. Probably in australia we will call them Milkies in the vein of posties)
I'm all in favor of keeping it Milkman, but only so this remains relevant.
Seriously though I like Milkies.
Consumption is much like a drug. It needs treated the same way an addiction is. We should start mandating anti-consumption ads that must run alongside regular ads, the way they used to do for smoking.
"That last ad showed something pretty neat huh? Well here's what its doing to the planet (pan over plastic islands in ocean and dead whales)."
If we’re talking utopian solutions why not ban ads altogether. Imagine a world with no ads! Bliss
The main problem with the material in the article is that it is pure greenwashing. Plastic is starting to get a bad rep, so companies are trying to make up materials that can be marketed as not-plastic (Even though they are).
All the platics I have heard of that contain some sort of plant based matter become un-recyclable. Whereas today, most plastics ARE recycleable.
In terms of the palmolive soap bottles, they'd probably do more for the environment if they would just stick to some easily recycleable plastic, e.g. PET.
There's very little talked about the specifics of the material from the main article, if they would have actually invented a biopolymer that has all the properties of say PET, and contained no virgin plastic, then they would be yelling that from the mountaintops while becoming billionaires.
I don't think we (as a species) have the luxury of "we've got to many small changes" anymore. It's a nice idea, but we've really got to start thinking about big bang movements to get things going in the right direction.
Degrowth is what I'd like.
People are permitted to be negative, infact... it'd be helpful if we weren't all so frustratingly happy-clappy about climate change progress all the time. At least then we could start looking and having honest conversations about just how absolutely fucked we are unless we change the system we're in.
I highly recommend that you give "Less is more" by Jason Hickel a read if you fancy a roadmap on how to do this.
Plastic packaging production, transportation and disposal accounts for a very big chunk of plastic pollution.
I think that replacing all packaging with a non-plastic one can be a very positive change.
https://wrap.org.uk/taking-action/plastic-packaging#:~:text=The%20world%20produces%20141%20million,tonnes%20of%20carbon%20emissions%20annually.
https://www.oecd.org/environment/plastics/increased-plastic-leakage-and-greenhouse-gas-emissions.htm
I'm not detracting this, I know how bad the plastic packaging is.
But a drastically better step is not needing it at all. We buy so much disposable "stuff", that we end up in a world of hurt because we're wrapping said stuff in plastics.
We need to start thinking about longevity and individual ownership concepts at the same time. This is just a patch on the social/economic system that is causing huge problems for nature.
It's a great idea, but it's just not the solution we need. We still think we're going to technology ourselves out of this crisis.
I mean, if they can make an equivalent alternative to the plastic dog poop bag I'm all ears. Needs to hold together for at least 2 hours under the runniest of poops. If it can biodegrade in regular compost after that I can setup a dog poop compost pit in the backyard.
I avoid plastics as much as I can, but picking up poop is one case I really have trouble quitting.
I think the ones I use are cornstarch derived?
I think typically those require special industrial composting, not backyard composting.
If you've got a link I'll check them out though.
This seems like a puff piece, I am not sure the truth is so rosy as what the article claims.
If the material can be used akin to plastic in regular injection molding machines, then the material most likely has most of the properties of the various plastic polymers we use. I.e. all the nasty binders and plasticisers and so on.
Worst case, this is just another one of those hybrid plastics where they put some non-polymer material into the blend in order to claim to be good for the environment, when all they do is make the plastic packaging unrecycleable.
Anything that behaves like plastic, will most probably behave like plastic. I.e. not biodegrade in any sensible timelines, as well as contain chemicals which are harmful to human and other animals.
Also, if Palmolive would want to ditch plastic packaging? Stop selling liquid soap. Sell powders that are mixed at home with water, or sell bar soap/shampoo. Then you can package it in cardboard or paper. No plastic, or plastic derrivatives. Your product can be packaged in rectangular packages, it stacks better, uses up volume better, is dryer so it lasts longer and so on.
But customers want convenience, and money talks, so nature will suffer.
I wrote in a comment elsewhere, plastic today is already very recycleable. E.g. PET and HDPE. These are widely used plastics for product packaging and can easily be re-used and recycled. If you have a product such as e.g. liquid soap that can't for obvious reasons be packaged in cardboard, this is most likely the most environmentally friendly alternative.
Plastics that contain polymerized plant matter become custom plastics, that have their own resin code. These plastics will still behave like plastics, they will still have to contain plasticisers and other binders that are harmful to life.
Bioplastics and biodegradeable plastics and the like are all greenwashing. These types of plastics break down faster than virgin plastic, but they still break down and cause microplastics as well as leech toxic chemicals into the environment. Plastic is not an inert material.
There are multiple ways companies can alter their business models to be more environmentally friendly without greenwashing.
Changing product formul when you can, e.g. sell bar soap, flakes, and powders instead of liquid soap
--> You can now use e.g. paper and cardboard
--> Your product is more dense and you don't transport water
Use packaging that is recycleable, like PET or HDPE, aluminum, glass, or cardboard/paper
Avoid combined materials like plastic coated cardboard, or plastic packaging that contain multiple types of plastic molded together
Produce products closer to the consumer, and choose shipping methods that are more environmentally friendly E.g. containers over trucks
And so forth.
Great if it pans out at scale, but it seems like there's always another revolutionary plastic replacement that aren't actually feasible.
I wouldn't be surprised if these attract pests like the soy used in wire insulation resulting in rats eating through wiring. Or not being appropriate for perishables.
Definitely worth more investigation though.
Yes, lots of these end up not being feasible but I think each innovation is worth celebrating because even if it fails to live up to the potential, it tells us something. Each failure brings us closer to one that’s viable. I’m still hopeful every time that this will be The One, though!