This one of the reasons I hate Christmas because people will get me useless crap I don't want. I'm fine with having no gifts, just a fun time and food is good. I still like to spend my money...
This one of the reasons I hate Christmas because people will get me useless crap I don't want. I'm fine with having no gifts, just a fun time and food is good.
I still like to spend my money though and one of the things I feel a lot better about spending on is digital items like music and art commissions. I can buy as many albums online as I want and have a virtually 0 environmental impact and when buying art I'm also supporting an independent person live off a job they love.
Right! This article's premise doesn't only apply to fashion. There is one consumer trend that has bothered me for quite a while now, and that is products who's only selling point is the brand that...
Right! This article's premise doesn't only apply to fashion.
There is one consumer trend that has bothered me for quite a while now, and that is products who's only selling point is the brand that it carries. It's a category of junk that has overtaken stores like Hot Topic and Boxlunch and has grown into other stores like Gamestop and even dollar stores. One of the things that bothers me so much about it is that it seems to be marketed as gift packages, which seems like an acknowledgement that they aren't things actually worth owning.
And then there is another subcategory of cheap guff designed to be 'collectable' but doesn't have any real utilitarian value - basically everything that Funko makes. Fast fashion may be wasteful, but at least it has the redeeming value of being useful.
Exactly. Think of all those electronic devices that keep getting upgraded every year. It's not only fashion that has become "fast", but also smartphones, tablets, games consoles, and so on. How...
Right! This article's premise doesn't only apply to fashion.
Exactly. Think of all those electronic devices that keep getting upgraded every year. It's not only fashion that has become "fast", but also smartphones, tablets, games consoles, and so on.
How many Apple and Samsung fanbois and fangrrls upgrade their phones just because Apple or Samsung has brought out a new version ("But she's got a new hat!"), rather than because their old phone needs replacing? That's a massive amount of waste.
This is just an aside, but your disdain for Apple and, more importantly, its users, is something I've noticed from you repeatedly—especially for example here where you effectively labelled myself...
Exemplary
This is just an aside, but your disdain for Apple and, more importantly, its users, is something I've noticed from you repeatedly—especially for example here where you effectively labelled myself and another user as sheep/lemmings because we prefer a particular brand to another, often for reasons of "ooh, shiny!". The user-specific accusations and insults are extremely offputting, and totally unneeded. There's a myriad of far more logically valid reasons to express your dislike without the need to attack users.
So, yes, you've made an analogy; but using Apple and its users as its target is not necessarily the most effective, constructive, or inclusive portrayal. Not all of us are mindless consumerist lemmings staring at 5.5" screens all day. Perhaps check out the products made by those associated with the Korean chaebol instead :).
I referred to Apple users only because they are the most obvious and well-known example of people upgrading electronic devices just for the sake of it. The same thinking can be applied to some...
I referred to Apple users only because they are the most obvious and well-known example of people upgrading electronic devices just for the sake of it. The same thinking can be applied to some users of Samsung phones (and probably many other brands). I have edited my comment to include Samsung beside Apple. I hope that appeases you.
Have you considered that Apple is one of a small number of high profile technology corporations who actually put effort into making sure their products don’t need to be upgraded every year? I.e.,...
Have you considered that Apple is one of a small number of high profile technology corporations who actually put effort into making sure their products don’t need to be upgraded every year? I.e., they support several generations of older hardware with security and software updates as well as selling refurbished items so that lightly used items don’t go to waste. Also, Apple hardware is relatively recyclable because of the materials they use. E.g., the MacBook Airs from this year use totally recycled aluminum. And if your concern is the overall carbon footprint of Apple, they use a lot of PVs to power their datacenters and offices. As far as total lifespan of hardware devices, in my personal exposure, I see many more Apple devices that are still being used after 5+ years than other brands that often outlive their utility after ~3 years. All this to say, if you’re going to buy a smartphone or a tablet or a PC, and sustainability is your concern, you could do a lot worse than buy from Apple.
And they do this by gluing every part together, using proprietary screws, attacking youtube channels who give info on how to fix devices and attempting to shut down all 3rd party repair stores?
Have you considered that Apple is one of a small number of high profile technology corporations who actually put effort into making sure their products don’t need to be upgraded every year?
And they do this by gluing every part together, using proprietary screws, attacking youtube channels who give info on how to fix devices and attempting to shut down all 3rd party repair stores?
They don’t shut down all 3rd party repair stores, they just want repair stores to be certified (the ones getting shut down refuse to get certified by Apple). The reasons for this are multiple, but...
They don’t shut down all 3rd party repair stores, they just want repair stores to be certified (the ones getting shut down refuse to get certified by Apple). The reasons for this are multiple, but the main issue is that if someone takes their broken device to a third party shop and that shop does a shitty job, the customer will blame Apple.
Personally, I’ve owned 3 iPhones (the older ones are now used by family members). The older ones have only needed batteries replaced during their lifetimes so far. I can’t think of any other computers that have been more reliable. An iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7S. The 7S battery was even replaced for free by Apple under a special warranty extension. And the battery swaps take 30-40 minutes at an Apple retail store where I know if they fuck it up they’ll just replace the handset for me. I had that happen when my GPU died on a laptop and they broke the logic board while working on it. Now I realize this is anecdotal, and if you want to tinker with the hardware, iPhones are definitely not the best option. But, show me someone who likes to tinker with their handset hardware who is also using a handset more than a couple years old. In my experience, if you’re technically savvy enough to disassemble your handset, you’re also technically savvy enough that you either don’t use a smartphone at all, or you’re not going to be satisfied using 2 or 3 generation old hardware.
I'm going to need citations for everything you've said because it's all baseless and untrue. Glue is used in some parts of the device; increasingly being replaced with adhesive pull tabs for most...
I'm going to need citations for everything you've said because it's all baseless and untrue.
The glue part is definitely true. Moreover, it is not limited to old iPhones, present-day Macbooks have this issue: Secret ingredient in new MacBook Pro? Glue. Lots and lots of glue from cultofmac.com
it's all baseless and untrue
The glue part is definitely true. Moreover, it is not limited to old iPhones, present-day Macbooks have this issue:
Apple makes no attempt to have MacBook Pro models easy to repair. The ones released just a few days ago are no exception. We all have to hope that the redesigned key mechanism fixes the previous problems because the keyboard is solidly glued to the battery and speakers.
I had lots of fun with those. took me about 20 minutes and the help of a hair dryer to lift the battery up on an iphone. In total it cost me about $70AUD and about 40 minutes time following a...
increasingly being replaced with adhesive pull tabs for most products
I had lots of fun with those. took me about 20 minutes and the help of a hair dryer to lift the battery up on an iphone. In total it cost me about $70AUD and about 40 minutes time following a complex guide to get it replaced
it's all baseless and untrue.
Proceeds to admits its true but doesn't fit your natative
Pentalobe screws seem to only be used by apple and huawei. There seems to be no reason at all to use them over torx other than the fact that no one has one at home.
attacking youtube channels who give info on how to fix devices
Example?
You already know who I am talking about because you mentioned them below. I don't care if you think they are an attention seeker
No, I have not. But now that you point it out... I don't believe a word of it. If their products don't need to be upgraded every year, why are they releasing a new model every year? They've...
Have you considered that Apple is one of a small number of high profile technology corporations who actually put effort into making sure their products don’t need to be upgraded every year?
No, I have not. But now that you point it out... I don't believe a word of it. If their products don't need to be upgraded every year, why are they releasing a new model every year? They've released a new version of the iPhone every single year for the past decade.
Apple hardware is relatively recyclable because of the materials they use. E.g., the MacBook Airs from this year use totally recycled aluminum.
And the plastic in the motherboards? And the semi-precious metals in the circuitry? And the heavy metals in the batteries? And the plastics on the cables and earphones?
And if your concern is the overall carbon footprint of Apple, they use a lot of PVs to power their datacenters and offices.
What about their factories? And electricity is not the only impact of manufacturing phones. There's waste products and pollution produced as side-effects of the manufacturing process. And then there's the working conditions of the labourers themselves.
Apple may use solar power to power some of their operations, but they're still causing environmental and social costs in other ways.
(And, this is not to single Apple out. Everything I've said applies to most phone manufacturers. It's a "dirty" industry.)
Well for some products, they don’t refresh yearly. But you’re thinking about this from an individual perspective. Just because they come out with a new model doesn’t mean every one will go out and...
If their products don't need to be upgraded every year, why are they releasing a new model every year?
Well for some products, they don’t refresh yearly. But you’re thinking about this from an individual perspective. Just because they come out with a new model doesn’t mean every one will go out and buy it and throw away their current model. But, if Apple doesn’t refresh products at some interval, they won’t remain competitive. Just because you aren’t in the market for a new x this year, other people are. So Apple isn’t serving only your demand, but rather the market demand at large. And in that macro sense, you can see from their product support lifecycles that they support things for several years in terms of software and repairs. And when people do want to upgrade every year on say the latest iPhone, they’ll take the year old handsets and resell them to people who aren’t in the market for the latest version.
I think you’re maybe not old enough to remember the old Nokia and Motorola days. If you walked into a phone shop in the late 90s or early 00s the sales guys would certainly be pushing you to buy a...
I think you’re maybe not old enough to remember the old Nokia and Motorola days. If you walked into a phone shop in the late 90s or early 00s the sales guys would certainly be pushing you to buy a model from this year. And to talk about the yearly design changes that goes back to the auto industry. You can read about how the marketing and ad guys came up with strategies to drive up demand for “this year’s” model and how they could make previous models look less appealing by simply shifting styles. Apple may use the same strategies, but I’d argue it was and is much less substantive in the auto industry. This year’s iPhone is likely to be significantly much more compute bang for your buck than any year-over-year car iteration is technically a better car.
Yeah if you walk in to the shop for anything there will be someone pushing you to buy stuff but I don't remember anyone ever caring about buying new phones regularly. They were tools of function...
If you walked into a phone shop
Yeah if you walk in to the shop for anything there will be someone pushing you to buy stuff but I don't remember anyone ever caring about buying new phones regularly. They were tools of function and you got a new one when the last one broke.
I also don't know anyone who buys a new car every year but I guess it might be a push to not buy second hand.
Well as long as we’re continuing the anecdote train, I personally don’t know anyone who buys a new phone every year either. The only people who do that have more money than they know what to do...
Well as long as we’re continuing the anecdote train, I personally don’t know anyone who buys a new phone every year either. The only people who do that have more money than they know what to do with (and are the same kind of people who might actually buy a new car every year, too).
Of course production of new phones puts pressure on environment, but new phones are useful. Modern web is heavy, it's how it is. More powerful processors in phones are always welcome: to wait less...
Of course production of new phones puts pressure on environment, but new phones are useful. Modern web is heavy, it's how it is. More powerful processors in phones are always welcome: to wait less when browsing, and also for more advanced camera photo processing (better pics), better looking graphics in casual mobile games, and game emulators. People buy new phones with more powerful processors even when their current phones still work fine.
And what happens to the old phones when people upgrade? Buying a new phone for higher speed and more features doesn't mean the old phone disappears by magic. That electronic waste still needs to...
And what happens to the old phones when people upgrade? Buying a new phone for higher speed and more features doesn't mean the old phone disappears by magic. That electronic waste still needs to be disposed of. And the new phone has resources and labour invested in it.
Buying more phones more often is a drain on the environment. That doesn't change just because you get to load a webpage faster or see prettier images in a computer game (which are such first world problems...). You're still throwing away a perfectly good phone, complete with plastic that won't degrade, heavy metals which will poison the environment, and with precious metals that had to be mined. But you got a faster webpage, so it's okay? No, it's not okay.
Phones are 200 grams of electronic waste per year per person. They should be recycled. While they are not it's a problem indeed. But it's not worth keeping using an old phone less capable of...
Phones are 200 grams of electronic waste per year per person. They should be recycled. While they are not it's a problem indeed.
But it's not worth keeping using an old phone less capable of dealing with increased complexity of content, intentionally, while it's possible and desirable to upgrade.
You can cut your pollution footprint so much better in other ways without this clear sacrifice. Many people buy and fuel cars, live in huge homes, have large carnivorous pets, not truly wanted kids who will grow up and release thousands of tons of CO2, and buy a lot of stuff much much more "dumb" than a smartphone - that's where the real damage is! Many kilos, maybe even tons of waste per year. But keeping the old phone intentionally is an environmental extremity, and/or bad virtue signalling. Smartphone importance is immense for its waste weight.
It is totally okay to upgrade an old phone. The negatives are dramatically outweighed by the benefits. Anyone is free to think the opposite, but this must not become an extreme environmental internet propaganda to make people who upgrade look like morons, like it's happening these days with eating meat.
No, it is not okay. The negatives are not dramatically outweighed by the benefits - especially when the benefits are as minor as having a webpage load faster or having clearer graphics on a game...
It is totally okay to upgrade an old phone. The negatives are dramatically outweighed by the benefits.
No, it is not okay. The negatives are not dramatically outweighed by the benefits - especially when the benefits are as minor as having a webpage load faster or having clearer graphics on a game that was perfectly playable before the upgrade.
People just tell themselves it's okay to try to keep their consciences clean. (We all do it in one way or another. Noone's perfect.)
this must not become an extreme environmental internet propaganda to make people who upgrade look like morons, like it's happening these days with eating meat.
But meat does come with a huge cost to the environment. It's a resource-inefficient way to feed people, it uses more farming land to produce meat than to produce grain or vegetables, and meat farming produces higher greenhouse gas emissions than most other farming. Whatever excuses we tell ourselves to justify eating meat (and I'm a meat-eater), that doesn't change the fact that farming meat in the quantities needed to feed our current population is damaging our environment.
Phones have not been getting faster because as soon as phones get faster, devs just load up more bloat on their apps. Its a pointless rat race to be 1 step ahead of the curve and then in 6 months...
Phones have not been getting faster because as soon as phones get faster, devs just load up more bloat on their apps. Its a pointless rat race to be 1 step ahead of the curve and then in 6 months everyone will have that cpu so websites will slow your phone right back to what your last one was at with 30 more ad network scripts.
My "old phone" still runs better than most peoples 2018 phones because I run no proprietary apps and use firefox with ublock for web browsing.
True in software. But unfortunately users are more a product than a force to stop this race. For example Google Maps updated recently to a new design and it lags on older phone. If many other apps...
Its a pointless rat race
True in software. But unfortunately users are more a product than a force to stop this race. For example Google Maps updated recently to a new design and it lags on older phone. If many other apps I often use join it, the phone will no longer feel practical and pleasurable to use. Also while Tildes is snappy, Google image search isn't. Gradually more and more functionality becomes slower and that damages user experience.
I run no proprietary apps
I'm curious, except the browser, which open source apps do you use the most?
I use SMS for talking to people from work Telegram for talking to furry friends Riot for talking to programming friends K9 for email OsmAnd for maps Forecastie for weather NewPipe for Youtube and...
I'm curious, except the browser, which open source apps do you use the most?
I use SMS for talking to people from work
Telegram for talking to furry friends
Riot for talking to programming friends
K9 for email
OsmAnd for maps
Forecastie for weather
NewPipe for Youtube
and a few various apps for stuff like my watch and tuning my guitar. Everything can be found on F-Droid. I don't have the google play store installed on my phone and think I am doing fine without it.
It's more fancy than I expected. Probably nice for true offline mode if needed. But are there really no comments on places? Actually SkyTube, an alternative of NewPipe, has YouTube comments if you...
OsmAnd
It's more fancy than I expected. Probably nice for true offline mode if needed. But are there really no comments on places?
Actually SkyTube, an alternative of NewPipe, has YouTube comments if you are interested.
And I don't think it's any coincidence that user replaceable batteries completely dropped out of the market when year over year hardware upgrades stopped being noticeable enough to drive...
And I don't think it's any coincidence that user replaceable batteries completely dropped out of the market when year over year hardware upgrades stopped being noticeable enough to drive purchases. Between that, the removal of audio jacks, and the proliferation of burn-in prone OLED displays, the smartphone industry is like a case study of planned obsolescence and induced consumption.
I wouldn't quite put it in the same category. Replacing your phone x with phone x+1 every six months to a year is wasteful, yes, but it also comes with increasing utility - even if that utility is...
I wouldn't quite put it in the same category. Replacing your phone x with phone x+1 every six months to a year is wasteful, yes, but it also comes with increasing utility - even if that utility is diminishing at a logrhythmic rate.
How is the environmental cost of producing electronic devices and disposing of electronic waste not as bad as fashion production and waste? Toxic chemicals, non-biodegradable plastics, heavy...
How is the environmental cost of producing electronic devices and disposing of electronic waste not as bad as fashion production and waste? Toxic chemicals, non-biodegradable plastics, heavy metals, slave labour... neither industry has a monopoly on these things.
That supposed utility you talk about isn't really significant if someone is replacing their phone every six months to a year. It's not like phones develop amazing new features in that short period of time. In most cases, you could hold on to a phone for a few years before needing to replace it (I do - I only replace phones when they actually break or when I lose them).
I'm not the one being defensive. Everyone here is happy to criticise "fast" fashion as a source of unwanted waste, but as soon as I mention "fast" phones as another source of waste, people are...
There is no need to be so defensive.
I'm not the one being defensive. Everyone here is happy to criticise "fast" fashion as a source of unwanted waste, but as soon as I mention "fast" phones as another source of waste, people are jumping all over me to defend them. I think I hit a nerve.
People don't like to think that their tech purchases are anything other than rational choices, or that marketing, group approval and "street cred" play a part in the choices made.
People don't like to think that their tech purchases are anything other than rational choices, or that marketing, group approval and "street cred" play a part in the choices made.
There really does seem to be a strong culture around showing appreciation by buying people useless junk. "Its not the gift but the thought that counts" If that was so then just don't buy the gift....
There really does seem to be a strong culture around showing appreciation by buying people useless junk. "Its not the gift but the thought that counts" If that was so then just don't buy the gift. I'm more accepting of things like food or plants because at least if you don't like them they will be gone soon.
I think a big part of this is that society promotes having a large quantity of friends moreso than friends with meaningful relationships. A good gift is something useful; then whenever someone...
I think a big part of this is that society promotes having a large quantity of friends moreso than friends with meaningful relationships. A good gift is something useful; then whenever someone uses it they think of you. A junk gift just makes the person feel they owe you another gift the next time there is an occasion.
A good gift imo would be inviting me out for dinner or on some kind of fun experience. I have a job so anything I want with in the giftable price range I have already got myself. Most gifts just...
A good gift imo would be inviting me out for dinner or on some kind of fun experience. I have a job so anything I want with in the giftable price range I have already got myself. Most gifts just end up filling space in storage.
I've taken the time to carefully explain to my family that I do not want Funko Pops. It surprised them, and probably even disappointed them a little, because they do know I like to hunt for Prize...
I've taken the time to carefully explain to my family that I do not want Funko Pops. It surprised them, and probably even disappointed them a little, because they do know I like to hunt for Prize Figures or 2nd hand Nendoroids and they figured they'd found a cheap and easy way to please me.
It's honestly kind of heartbreaking to have to tell somebody that you wouldn't be happy with the thing they were sure would make you happy.
Pops are the single worst example. They are everywhere. All I can think of when I see those giant walls of them is how much volume they will add to the landfills they will eventually be thrown in....
Pops are the single worst example. They are everywhere. All I can think of when I see those giant walls of them is how much volume they will add to the landfills they will eventually be thrown in. I would say that they are the beany baby of this era but they are honestly worse: the collectability of them is 100% artificial, they are incredibly cheap to produce, and they don't even act as a plaything; they are literally just totems. They embody consumerism at it's absolute worst.
Just tell people that you don't want any gifts, or make a list of things you would appreciate. In my family we have a "no gifts between adults rule", that we occasionally break when we have a...
Just tell people that you don't want any gifts, or make a list of things you would appreciate. In my family we have a "no gifts between adults rule", that we occasionally break when we have a really good present to make.
I have mixed feelings about this article. On the one hand it is a good thing that they tell people not to buy things just because. I will admit I am fully aware that I myself have been guilty of...
I have mixed feelings about this article.
On the one hand it is a good thing that they tell people not to buy things just because. I will admit I am fully aware that I myself have been guilty of doing exactly what the article warns us about.
On the other hand, I feel like just saying not to buy (or not as often) is not going far enough. Moreover, it seems like the article is just shaming people about their consumption habits. The fact is, most of the readers of that article - whether they like it or not - live under a market economy. It appears to me that most of the blame about churning products lies in the very nature of the system we live in, ie: "the economy needs to grow, buy stuff". This results in us being surrounded by a culture of consumerism, from a very young age. It is that very system that incentivizes us to buy more and more things at every stage of our life.
However, to expect a critique of capitalism from this website - one that is focused on business anyway - feels unrealistic to me. At the very least the author should have pointed out what made the wallet voting effective: the organisation of thousands of people in order to inform people around them about the problem and inviting them to take action. The message should then be: "Vote with your wallet and spread the word". Otherwise, it's just a way to make people feel good about their consumption habits.
Agreed. Let's push this further - consumption drives production, but because commodities have to be sold, production also drives consumption (thru advertising, discounts, etc). I would in fact...
Agreed. Let's push this further - consumption drives production, but because commodities have to be sold, production also drives consumption (thru advertising, discounts, etc). I would in fact hold that this is primary.
Take for instance, the American diet. Most people know that it's unhealthy and would like to eat more veggies, less empty calories, etc. Yet they don't!
The agricultural industry produces excess of meat & corn based products, thus making them cheap and present everywhere. Sure, you can buy healthier options, but they might be more expensive, out of the way, and you'll usually have to prepare them yourself.
And if like most people, you're short on time, energy and/or money, you're not gonna do that, despite knowing that you're eating crap.
This one of the reasons I hate Christmas because people will get me useless crap I don't want. I'm fine with having no gifts, just a fun time and food is good.
I still like to spend my money though and one of the things I feel a lot better about spending on is digital items like music and art commissions. I can buy as many albums online as I want and have a virtually 0 environmental impact and when buying art I'm also supporting an independent person live off a job they love.
Right! This article's premise doesn't only apply to fashion.
There is one consumer trend that has bothered me for quite a while now, and that is products who's only selling point is the brand that it carries. It's a category of junk that has overtaken stores like Hot Topic and Boxlunch and has grown into other stores like Gamestop and even dollar stores. One of the things that bothers me so much about it is that it seems to be marketed as gift packages, which seems like an acknowledgement that they aren't things actually worth owning.
And then there is another subcategory of cheap guff designed to be 'collectable' but doesn't have any real utilitarian value - basically everything that Funko makes. Fast fashion may be wasteful, but at least it has the redeeming value of being useful.
Exactly. Think of all those electronic devices that keep getting upgraded every year. It's not only fashion that has become "fast", but also smartphones, tablets, games consoles, and so on.
How many Apple and Samsung fanbois and fangrrls upgrade their phones just because Apple or Samsung has brought out a new version ("But she's got a new hat!"), rather than because their old phone needs replacing? That's a massive amount of waste.
Edited for inclusivity.
This is just an aside, but your disdain for Apple and, more importantly, its users, is something I've noticed from you repeatedly—especially for example here where you effectively labelled myself and another user as sheep/lemmings because we prefer a particular brand to another, often for reasons of "ooh, shiny!". The user-specific accusations and insults are extremely offputting, and totally unneeded. There's a myriad of far more logically valid reasons to express your dislike without the need to attack users.
Furthermore, while no doubt there are consumers who purchase iPhones on an annual upgrade cycle, sales are slowing and so are upgrade cycles. iPhones receive vastly longer support lifetimes than their Android comrades do; and with Apple heavily pushing recycled aluminium and materials thanks to new recovery techniques and disassembly processes—such as Daisy and Liam—in new products to reach their goal of no longer needing to mine the Earth.
So, yes, you've made an analogy; but using Apple and its users as its target is not necessarily the most effective, constructive, or inclusive portrayal. Not all of us are mindless consumerist lemmings staring at 5.5" screens all day. Perhaps check out the products made by those associated with the Korean chaebol instead :).
I referred to Apple users only because they are the most obvious and well-known example of people upgrading electronic devices just for the sake of it. The same thinking can be applied to some users of Samsung phones (and probably many other brands). I have edited my comment to include Samsung beside Apple. I hope that appeases you.
Have you considered that Apple is one of a small number of high profile technology corporations who actually put effort into making sure their products don’t need to be upgraded every year? I.e., they support several generations of older hardware with security and software updates as well as selling refurbished items so that lightly used items don’t go to waste. Also, Apple hardware is relatively recyclable because of the materials they use. E.g., the MacBook Airs from this year use totally recycled aluminum. And if your concern is the overall carbon footprint of Apple, they use a lot of PVs to power their datacenters and offices. As far as total lifespan of hardware devices, in my personal exposure, I see many more Apple devices that are still being used after 5+ years than other brands that often outlive their utility after ~3 years. All this to say, if you’re going to buy a smartphone or a tablet or a PC, and sustainability is your concern, you could do a lot worse than buy from Apple.
And they do this by gluing every part together, using proprietary screws, attacking youtube channels who give info on how to fix devices and attempting to shut down all 3rd party repair stores?
They don’t shut down all 3rd party repair stores, they just want repair stores to be certified (the ones getting shut down refuse to get certified by Apple). The reasons for this are multiple, but the main issue is that if someone takes their broken device to a third party shop and that shop does a shitty job, the customer will blame Apple.
Personally, I’ve owned 3 iPhones (the older ones are now used by family members). The older ones have only needed batteries replaced during their lifetimes so far. I can’t think of any other computers that have been more reliable. An iPhone 5 and an iPhone 7S. The 7S battery was even replaced for free by Apple under a special warranty extension. And the battery swaps take 30-40 minutes at an Apple retail store where I know if they fuck it up they’ll just replace the handset for me. I had that happen when my GPU died on a laptop and they broke the logic board while working on it. Now I realize this is anecdotal, and if you want to tinker with the hardware, iPhones are definitely not the best option. But, show me someone who likes to tinker with their handset hardware who is also using a handset more than a couple years old. In my experience, if you’re technically savvy enough to disassemble your handset, you’re also technically savvy enough that you either don’t use a smartphone at all, or you’re not going to be satisfied using 2 or 3 generation old hardware.
I'm going to need citations for everything you've said because it's all baseless and untrue.
Glue is used in some parts of the device; increasingly being replaced with adhesive pull tabs for most products. iPhone XS & XS Max do not use glue at all.
What "proprietary screws" does Apple use exactly? Torx was introduced in 1967 by Camcar Textron, and Pentalobe is not "proprietary".
Example?
Ludicrous claims. I take it you're going to refer to Louis Rossmann, who I have already described here as an attention seeker who frequently spins reality to his preferred ideal.
The glue part is definitely true. Moreover, it is not limited to old iPhones, present-day Macbooks have this issue:
Secret ingredient in new MacBook Pro? Glue. Lots and lots of glue from cultofmac.com
I had lots of fun with those. took me about 20 minutes and the help of a hair dryer to lift the battery up on an iphone. In total it cost me about $70AUD and about 40 minutes time following a complex guide to get it replaced
Pentalobe screws seem to only be used by apple and huawei. There seems to be no reason at all to use them over torx other than the fact that no one has one at home.
You already know who I am talking about because you mentioned them below. I don't care if you think they are an attention seeker
No, I have not. But now that you point it out... I don't believe a word of it. If their products don't need to be upgraded every year, why are they releasing a new model every year? They've released a new version of the iPhone every single year for the past decade.
And the plastic in the motherboards? And the semi-precious metals in the circuitry? And the heavy metals in the batteries? And the plastics on the cables and earphones?
What about their factories? And electricity is not the only impact of manufacturing phones. There's waste products and pollution produced as side-effects of the manufacturing process. And then there's the working conditions of the labourers themselves.
Apple may use solar power to power some of their operations, but they're still causing environmental and social costs in other ways.
(And, this is not to single Apple out. Everything I've said applies to most phone manufacturers. It's a "dirty" industry.)
Well for some products, they don’t refresh yearly. But you’re thinking about this from an individual perspective. Just because they come out with a new model doesn’t mean every one will go out and buy it and throw away their current model. But, if Apple doesn’t refresh products at some interval, they won’t remain competitive. Just because you aren’t in the market for a new x this year, other people are. So Apple isn’t serving only your demand, but rather the market demand at large. And in that macro sense, you can see from their product support lifecycles that they support things for several years in terms of software and repairs. And when people do want to upgrade every year on say the latest iPhone, they’ll take the year old handsets and resell them to people who aren’t in the market for the latest version.
Apple invented this cycle. Before the iphone I can't remember anyone ever caring that there was a new model of a phone out.
I think you’re maybe not old enough to remember the old Nokia and Motorola days. If you walked into a phone shop in the late 90s or early 00s the sales guys would certainly be pushing you to buy a model from this year. And to talk about the yearly design changes that goes back to the auto industry. You can read about how the marketing and ad guys came up with strategies to drive up demand for “this year’s” model and how they could make previous models look less appealing by simply shifting styles. Apple may use the same strategies, but I’d argue it was and is much less substantive in the auto industry. This year’s iPhone is likely to be significantly much more compute bang for your buck than any year-over-year car iteration is technically a better car.
Yeah if you walk in to the shop for anything there will be someone pushing you to buy stuff but I don't remember anyone ever caring about buying new phones regularly. They were tools of function and you got a new one when the last one broke.
I also don't know anyone who buys a new car every year but I guess it might be a push to not buy second hand.
Well as long as we’re continuing the anecdote train, I personally don’t know anyone who buys a new phone every year either. The only people who do that have more money than they know what to do with (and are the same kind of people who might actually buy a new car every year, too).
Of course production of new phones puts pressure on environment, but new phones are useful. Modern web is heavy, it's how it is. More powerful processors in phones are always welcome: to wait less when browsing, and also for more advanced camera photo processing (better pics), better looking graphics in casual mobile games, and game emulators. People buy new phones with more powerful processors even when their current phones still work fine.
And what happens to the old phones when people upgrade? Buying a new phone for higher speed and more features doesn't mean the old phone disappears by magic. That electronic waste still needs to be disposed of. And the new phone has resources and labour invested in it.
Buying more phones more often is a drain on the environment. That doesn't change just because you get to load a webpage faster or see prettier images in a computer game (which are such first world problems...). You're still throwing away a perfectly good phone, complete with plastic that won't degrade, heavy metals which will poison the environment, and with precious metals that had to be mined. But you got a faster webpage, so it's okay? No, it's not okay.
Phones are 200 grams of electronic waste per year per person. They should be recycled. While they are not it's a problem indeed.
But it's not worth keeping using an old phone less capable of dealing with increased complexity of content, intentionally, while it's possible and desirable to upgrade.
You can cut your pollution footprint so much better in other ways without this clear sacrifice. Many people buy and fuel cars, live in huge homes, have large carnivorous pets, not truly wanted kids who will grow up and release thousands of tons of CO2, and buy a lot of stuff much much more "dumb" than a smartphone - that's where the real damage is! Many kilos, maybe even tons of waste per year. But keeping the old phone intentionally is an environmental extremity, and/or bad virtue signalling. Smartphone importance is immense for its waste weight.
It is totally okay to upgrade an old phone. The negatives are dramatically outweighed by the benefits. Anyone is free to think the opposite, but this must not become an extreme environmental internet propaganda to make people who upgrade look like morons, like it's happening these days with eating meat.
No, it is not okay. The negatives are not dramatically outweighed by the benefits - especially when the benefits are as minor as having a webpage load faster or having clearer graphics on a game that was perfectly playable before the upgrade.
People just tell themselves it's okay to try to keep their consciences clean. (We all do it in one way or another. Noone's perfect.)
But meat does come with a huge cost to the environment. It's a resource-inefficient way to feed people, it uses more farming land to produce meat than to produce grain or vegetables, and meat farming produces higher greenhouse gas emissions than most other farming. Whatever excuses we tell ourselves to justify eating meat (and I'm a meat-eater), that doesn't change the fact that farming meat in the quantities needed to feed our current population is damaging our environment.
Phones have not been getting faster because as soon as phones get faster, devs just load up more bloat on their apps. Its a pointless rat race to be 1 step ahead of the curve and then in 6 months everyone will have that cpu so websites will slow your phone right back to what your last one was at with 30 more ad network scripts.
My "old phone" still runs better than most peoples 2018 phones because I run no proprietary apps and use firefox with ublock for web browsing.
True in software. But unfortunately users are more a product than a force to stop this race. For example Google Maps updated recently to a new design and it lags on older phone. If many other apps I often use join it, the phone will no longer feel practical and pleasurable to use. Also while Tildes is snappy, Google image search isn't. Gradually more and more functionality becomes slower and that damages user experience.
I'm curious, except the browser, which open source apps do you use the most?
I use SMS for talking to people from work
Telegram for talking to furry friends
Riot for talking to programming friends
K9 for email
OsmAnd for maps
Forecastie for weather
NewPipe for Youtube
and a few various apps for stuff like my watch and tuning my guitar. Everything can be found on F-Droid. I don't have the google play store installed on my phone and think I am doing fine without it.
It's more fancy than I expected. Probably nice for true offline mode if needed. But are there really no comments on places?
Actually SkyTube, an alternative of NewPipe, has YouTube comments if you are interested.
And I don't think it's any coincidence that user replaceable batteries completely dropped out of the market when year over year hardware upgrades stopped being noticeable enough to drive purchases. Between that, the removal of audio jacks, and the proliferation of burn-in prone OLED displays, the smartphone industry is like a case study of planned obsolescence and induced consumption.
I wouldn't quite put it in the same category. Replacing your phone x with phone x+1 every six months to a year is wasteful, yes, but it also comes with increasing utility - even if that utility is diminishing at a logrhythmic rate.
How is the environmental cost of producing electronic devices and disposing of electronic waste not as bad as fashion production and waste? Toxic chemicals, non-biodegradable plastics, heavy metals, slave labour... neither industry has a monopoly on these things.
That supposed utility you talk about isn't really significant if someone is replacing their phone every six months to a year. It's not like phones develop amazing new features in that short period of time. In most cases, you could hold on to a phone for a few years before needing to replace it (I do - I only replace phones when they actually break or when I lose them).
I never defended the practice. I was merely saying that it's not in the same catogory for the reasons I stated. There is no need to be so defensive.
I'm not the one being defensive. Everyone here is happy to criticise "fast" fashion as a source of unwanted waste, but as soon as I mention "fast" phones as another source of waste, people are jumping all over me to defend them. I think I hit a nerve.
People don't like to think that their tech purchases are anything other than rational choices, or that marketing, group approval and "street cred" play a part in the choices made.
I know. :)
There really does seem to be a strong culture around showing appreciation by buying people useless junk. "Its not the gift but the thought that counts" If that was so then just don't buy the gift. I'm more accepting of things like food or plants because at least if you don't like them they will be gone soon.
I think a big part of this is that society promotes having a large quantity of friends moreso than friends with meaningful relationships. A good gift is something useful; then whenever someone uses it they think of you. A junk gift just makes the person feel they owe you another gift the next time there is an occasion.
A good gift imo would be inviting me out for dinner or on some kind of fun experience. I have a job so anything I want with in the giftable price range I have already got myself. Most gifts just end up filling space in storage.
I've taken the time to carefully explain to my family that I do not want Funko Pops. It surprised them, and probably even disappointed them a little, because they do know I like to hunt for Prize Figures or 2nd hand Nendoroids and they figured they'd found a cheap and easy way to please me.
It's honestly kind of heartbreaking to have to tell somebody that you wouldn't be happy with the thing they were sure would make you happy.
Pops are the single worst example. They are everywhere. All I can think of when I see those giant walls of them is how much volume they will add to the landfills they will eventually be thrown in. I would say that they are the beany baby of this era but they are honestly worse: the collectability of them is 100% artificial, they are incredibly cheap to produce, and they don't even act as a plaything; they are literally just totems. They embody consumerism at it's absolute worst.
Just tell people that you don't want any gifts, or make a list of things you would appreciate. In my family we have a "no gifts between adults rule", that we occasionally break when we have a really good present to make.
I have mixed feelings about this article.
On the one hand it is a good thing that they tell people not to buy things just because. I will admit I am fully aware that I myself have been guilty of doing exactly what the article warns us about.
On the other hand, I feel like just saying not to buy (or not as often) is not going far enough. Moreover, it seems like the article is just shaming people about their consumption habits. The fact is, most of the readers of that article - whether they like it or not - live under a market economy. It appears to me that most of the blame about churning products lies in the very nature of the system we live in, ie: "the economy needs to grow, buy stuff". This results in us being surrounded by a culture of consumerism, from a very young age. It is that very system that incentivizes us to buy more and more things at every stage of our life.
However, to expect a critique of capitalism from this website - one that is focused on business anyway - feels unrealistic to me. At the very least the author should have pointed out what made the wallet voting effective: the organisation of thousands of people in order to inform people around them about the problem and inviting them to take action. The message should then be: "Vote with your wallet and spread the word". Otherwise, it's just a way to make people feel good about their consumption habits.
Agreed. Let's push this further - consumption drives production, but because commodities have to be sold, production also drives consumption (thru advertising, discounts, etc). I would in fact hold that this is primary.
Take for instance, the American diet. Most people know that it's unhealthy and would like to eat more veggies, less empty calories, etc. Yet they don't!
The agricultural industry produces excess of meat & corn based products, thus making them cheap and present everywhere. Sure, you can buy healthier options, but they might be more expensive, out of the way, and you'll usually have to prepare them yourself.
And if like most people, you're short on time, energy and/or money, you're not gonna do that, despite knowing that you're eating crap.
I stopped buying crap 10 years ago and companies still produce crap, the article title is demonstrably false.
The title didin't say you need to stop buying crap. We all need to stop buying crap.
That's not going to happen though. Ever.
Doesn't make it not true.