I'm not convinced of the value of this study: "we set out to see if homeless people really would spend free cash on drugs and alcohol" "we excluded all addicts and alcoholics" 🤔
Exemplary
I'm not convinced of the value of this study:
"we set out to see if homeless people really would spend free cash on drugs and alcohol"
I think it's quite valuable still, they were clear in what their target group was and it was a target group that covered the majority of homeless people. I think if they had an even wider target...
Exemplary
people who fit that criteria do not make up the majority of homeless people.
I think it's quite valuable still, they were clear in what their target group was and it was a target group that covered the majority of homeless people. I think if they had an even wider target group it would have made the validity of the study less reliable.
This was interesting to me, as I’ve commonly heard it implied that a majority of homeless people are mentally ill and/or dealing with addiction. I looked for more info on this but found...
The study did not include people who are street-entrenched or who have serious addictions or mental health issues, Zhao noted, adding people who fit that criteria do not make up the majority of homeless people.
This was interesting to me, as I’ve commonly heard it implied that a majority of homeless people are mentally ill and/or dealing with addiction.
I looked for more info on this but found conflicting evidence.
People with lived experience of mental health and addictions conditions (PWLE) are disproportionately affected by homelessness. While many factors can lead to homelessness, mental health plays a significant role—an estimated 25 to 50 per cent of homeless people live with a mental health condition.
But 25-50% is a huge range.
This site references The National Coalition for the Homeless, claiming:
38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent, and 26% are dependent on other harmful chemicals.
And they add that:
Reports suggest 33% of homeless people battle mental illness.
I’m going to continue to do some research, but it’s interesting that there is a substantial proportion (likely >50%) of homeless people who are not dealing with addiction or mental illness.
Obviously all homeless are equally worthy of social support, but I find it interesting that many of them aren’t dealing with some serious internal battle… they just need someone to help them get back on their feet again.
I'm not sure if the distinction matters when discussing the subject in this light, as presumably what you hear is influenced by what is more visible or noticeable to more people, but I believe...
This was interesting to me, as I’ve commonly heard it implied that a majority of homeless people are mentally ill and/or dealing with addiction.
I'm not sure if the distinction matters when discussing the subject in this light, as presumably what you hear is influenced by what is more visible or noticeable to more people, but I believe there's considered to be types of homelessness, and they might each contribute differently to the perception of the homeless.
Some of that data is old, and I can't purport to have researched it all to determine it's validity, but you can see some stark differences in mental illness and substance abuse problems depending on how they distinguish between the types of homelessness people are experiencing. You can also see it may matter if they're able to find shelter. The difference in people who are able to find shelter versus the ones who aren't also could contribute to the perception of homeless. That could also be influenced by location, as some areas are more prone to having homeless without shelter.
There are also differences in terminologies. In 2019, the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority released a report showing 25 percent of the unsheltered homeless had a severe mental illness and 14 percent had a substance use disorder. Using the same survey data, the Los Angeles Times showed a much higher prevalence level: about 51 percent with mental illness and 46 percent with substance use disorder. The critical difference lies in the definition of mental health and drug addiction. The government's estimates are lower because they only counted people with a permanent or long-term severe condition (LAHSA 2020).
Appendix Table A.1. contains estimates for the prevalence of mental illness and drug addiction among the homeless. The prevalence is particularly high among the chronically homeless, over 75 percent of whom have substance abuse or a severe mental illness (Kuhn and Culhane 1998; Poulin et al. 2010; Ellen Lockard Edens, Mares, and Rosenheck 2011).
This also discusses other reasons for varying numbers.
That's definitely one possibility, considering that they have profit motives and one could assume that more eye-popping numbers might get them more clicks. Of course there's many other factors at...
That's definitely one possibility, considering that they have profit motives and one could assume that more eye-popping numbers might get them more clicks. Of course there's many other factors at play too.
It's worth considering in the LA Times reporting, they said this
The homeless services authority did not dispute what The Times found. Rather, Heidi Marston, the agency’s acting executive director, explained that its report was in a format required by federal guidelines, leading to a different interpretation of the statistics.
“We’re acknowledging that there are more layers to the story,” Marston said.
The Times analysis aligns with a national study released Sunday by the California Policy Lab at UCLA, which found even higher rates in most categories. It also found that a mental health “concern” affected 78% of the unsheltered population and a substance abuse “concern,” 75%.
It's also worth noting that when comparing different studies and reported figures that they could possibly use different definitions of homelessness. Someone who is couch surfing could be considered homeless if they have no other fixed address that they stay at. Other definitions might be more specific like sleeping in shelters or in areas not intended for humans to sleep.
I think the terms "mental health issues" or "addiction" are just too broad to be of any use here. In the context of homelessness, I imagine stark raving mad lunatics and bums in rags who lie...
I think the terms "mental health issues" or "addiction" are just too broad to be of any use here.
In the context of homelessness, I imagine stark raving mad lunatics and bums in rags who lie unconscious in the gutter or shaking skeletons who spend 20 hours a day committing petty crimes to finance their next shot.
But in the context of "normal people", "mental health issues" can also mean "mild anxiety" or "reoccurring depressive phases", and "addiction" can mean any kind of unhealthy drug use. "Normal people" can suffer from mental health issues and addiction while being fully functional members of society.
There is also the question of causation: I can imagine it is much more likely you develop both mental health issues and addictive behaviour if you're homeless. Removing the homelessness might be enough to also remove the other issues in some cases.
Wouldn't this be Maslow' Hierarchy of Needs? You can't work on your other issues if you lack food, shelter, security, etc. Though, I would guess that for many, spending several years homeless and...
Removing the homelessness might be enough to also remove the other issues in some cases.
Wouldn't this be Maslow' Hierarchy of Needs? You can't work on your other issues if you lack food, shelter, security, etc.
Though, I would guess that for many, spending several years homeless and abusing drugs might put them beyond the point where "removing the homelessness" is enough.
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs is not a super accurate model of people’s needs. Different people weigh their needs differently. The things you mentioned are absolutely important but it’s not the...
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs is not a super accurate model of people’s needs. Different people weigh their needs differently.
The things you mentioned are absolutely important but it’s not the whole picture. There are also intangible needs that must be met. Many homeless people have social needs that they lack; friendship, companionship, love; a sense of being needed, of belonging to a group and/or society, etc. Note that these are all things that can be hindered by drug addiction and a lack of resources.
This doesn't really surprise me. What do you think happena when someone gets evicted and doesn't have another place to stay? If you can't afford rent your options are basically to stay with...
I’m going to continue to do some research, but it’s interesting that there is a substantial proportion (likely >50%) of homeless people who are not dealing with addiction or mental illness.
This doesn't really surprise me. What do you think happena when someone gets evicted and doesn't have another place to stay? If you can't afford rent your options are basically to stay with friends or family or homelessness, and not everyone has friends or family who can house them in situations like this.
You may also find it interesting that a large percentage, varies by city of course, of homeless are not jobless. I’ve seen reports as high as 40% which also changes the narrative a lot.
You may also find it interesting that a large percentage, varies by city of course, of homeless are not jobless. I’ve seen reports as high as 40% which also changes the narrative a lot.
I'm not convinced of the value of this study:
"we set out to see if homeless people really would spend free cash on drugs and alcohol"
"we excluded all addicts and alcoholics"
🤔
I think it's quite valuable still, they were clear in what their target group was and it was a target group that covered the majority of homeless people. I think if they had an even wider target group it would have made the validity of the study less reliable.
This was interesting to me, as I’ve commonly heard it implied that a majority of homeless people are mentally ill and/or dealing with addiction.
I looked for more info on this but found conflicting evidence.
The Ontario CMHA website says:
But 25-50% is a huge range.
This site references The National Coalition for the Homeless, claiming:
And they add that:
I’m going to continue to do some research, but it’s interesting that there is a substantial proportion (likely >50%) of homeless people who are not dealing with addiction or mental illness.
Obviously all homeless are equally worthy of social support, but I find it interesting that many of them aren’t dealing with some serious internal battle… they just need someone to help them get back on their feet again.
I'm not sure if the distinction matters when discussing the subject in this light, as presumably what you hear is influenced by what is more visible or noticeable to more people, but I believe there's considered to be types of homelessness, and they might each contribute differently to the perception of the homeless.
https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaigns/homelessness_programs_resources/hrc-factsheet-current-statistics-prevalence-characteristics-homelessness.pdf
Some of that data is old, and I can't purport to have researched it all to determine it's validity, but you can see some stark differences in mental illness and substance abuse problems depending on how they distinguish between the types of homelessness people are experiencing. You can also see it may matter if they're able to find shelter. The difference in people who are able to find shelter versus the ones who aren't also could contribute to the perception of homeless. That could also be influenced by location, as some areas are more prone to having homeless without shelter.
https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/homelessness-california-causes-and-policy-considerations
This also discusses other reasons for varying numbers.
That's so insidious of the LA Times, using statistics to push a narrative and punch down just by defining terms a little differently.
That's definitely one possibility, considering that they have profit motives and one could assume that more eye-popping numbers might get them more clicks. Of course there's many other factors at play too.
It's worth considering in the LA Times reporting, they said this
It's also worth noting that when comparing different studies and reported figures that they could possibly use different definitions of homelessness. Someone who is couch surfing could be considered homeless if they have no other fixed address that they stay at. Other definitions might be more specific like sleeping in shelters or in areas not intended for humans to sleep.
https://soarworks.samhsa.gov/article/definitions-of-homelessness
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness
I think the terms "mental health issues" or "addiction" are just too broad to be of any use here.
In the context of homelessness, I imagine stark raving mad lunatics and bums in rags who lie unconscious in the gutter or shaking skeletons who spend 20 hours a day committing petty crimes to finance their next shot.
But in the context of "normal people", "mental health issues" can also mean "mild anxiety" or "reoccurring depressive phases", and "addiction" can mean any kind of unhealthy drug use. "Normal people" can suffer from mental health issues and addiction while being fully functional members of society.
There is also the question of causation: I can imagine it is much more likely you develop both mental health issues and addictive behaviour if you're homeless. Removing the homelessness might be enough to also remove the other issues in some cases.
Wouldn't this be Maslow' Hierarchy of Needs? You can't work on your other issues if you lack food, shelter, security, etc.
Though, I would guess that for many, spending several years homeless and abusing drugs might put them beyond the point where "removing the homelessness" is enough.
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs is not a super accurate model of people’s needs. Different people weigh their needs differently.
The things you mentioned are absolutely important but it’s not the whole picture. There are also intangible needs that must be met. Many homeless people have social needs that they lack; friendship, companionship, love; a sense of being needed, of belonging to a group and/or society, etc. Note that these are all things that can be hindered by drug addiction and a lack of resources.
This doesn't really surprise me. What do you think happena when someone gets evicted and doesn't have another place to stay? If you can't afford rent your options are basically to stay with friends or family or homelessness, and not everyone has friends or family who can house them in situations like this.
You may also find it interesting that a large percentage, varies by city of course, of homeless are not jobless. I’ve seen reports as high as 40% which also changes the narrative a lot.
Can anyone define 'Street entrenched' for me?
Wouldn't it be just the opposite, people who've been homeless for so long that they're entrenched in that lifestyle?
Yeah I think they just worded it poorly, they screened out people who'd been homeless for 2 years or more.