From the article: The combined impacts of climate change induced ocean warming and the El Niño weather cycle are already extreme this year, and we're just getting started.
From the article:
One of the world’s current hottest commodities is in the midst of a huge disruption. It may sound like I’m talking about oil and the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, but this is even more severe. The supply shock is far greater — and so is the price response: Global production has plunged as much as 40% from a year ago; prices are up 80% over the same period to an all-time high. The commodity in question? The humble anchovy.
The tiny fish may sound utterly mundane, but its importance to the global economy is far larger than just foodies’ craving for the umami taste. The anchovy sits at the bottom of a crucial supply chain that sustains the $500-billion-a-year global aquaculture industry. Anchovies are the main ingredient in fishmeal, and without enough of it, global production of salmon, seabass, shrimp, oysters and other seafood will suffer, pushing up supermarket prices.
The combined impacts of climate change induced ocean warming and the El Niño weather cycle are already extreme this year, and we're just getting started.
I don't think El Niño is an extinction-level problem for anchovies (yet?), but it will become a serious food cost and scarcity problem for farmed fish, shellfish, and crustaceans in the coming...
I don't think El Niño is an extinction-level problem for anchovies (yet?), but it will become a serious food cost and scarcity problem for farmed fish, shellfish, and crustaceans in the coming year.
Time for me to work harder on veganism, but aquacultured fish and shrimp seemed like a not-too-horrible animal suffering source and an acceptable carbon output dodge...
In my opinion, killing something for our own pleasure (in this case taste) isn’t respecting the animal so that’s a hard no. But if you’re not sensitive to this argument (no judgement), consider...
In my opinion, killing something for our own pleasure (in this case taste) isn’t respecting the animal so that’s a hard no.
But if you’re not sensitive to this argument (no judgement), consider that fish farms are extremely polluting and wreck the waters around them. They also spread diseases much faster because the fish are cramped together. So, not great.
I am sensitive to the argument about taste, and recognize that concentrated animal farming of any kind can become an environmental disaster. However, I'm also sensitive to my own suffering. I have...
I am sensitive to the argument about taste, and recognize that concentrated animal farming of any kind can become an environmental disaster.
However, I'm also sensitive to my own suffering. I have not, to date, been able to remain healthy on a diet that contains no animal products whatsoever. YMMV, but I have concrete evidence from lab work that my rheumatoid factors and CRP are consistently lower if I eat fish periodically and supplement with fish oil (but not vegan fish oil substitutes). I'd like to minimize my impact further, but not at the cost of disability.
Sorry to hear that. I’m no MD, you’ve got to do what works for you. I’m sure there are very specific cases where a plant diet is impossible. As far as anecdotal evidence, I’m healthier on a plant...
Sorry to hear that. I’m no MD, you’ve got to do what works for you. I’m sure there are very specific cases where a plant diet is impossible.
As far as anecdotal evidence, I’m healthier on a plant diet. I have so little cholesterol that my doctor couldn’t believe it. My father otoh is off the charts on that same metric.
My partner has a chronic iron deficiency because of the way her body is built. Meat would easily fix that but it’s not compatible with a plant diet. So instead we cook in cast iron and high carbon steel pans and it’s enough to fix it. The same way they give these little iron fishes to the developing world to drop in the cooking pot. It transfers a bit of iron into the food which people absorb and it’s enough to avoid deficiencies.
Overall, I’ve had better health and very reduced allergies from not eating animals anymore. I suspect all the contaminants, antibiotics, etc in the meat didn’t work well for me. Plus cooking things from scratch is delicious and cheaper.
Not minimizing your experience, sharing mine for balance.
As I said, YMMV. There's a huge range of human genetic variation in how we've adapted to available nutrient sources, not to mention the effects of gender, accumulated digestive biota, industrial...
As I said, YMMV. There's a huge range of human genetic variation in how we've adapted to available nutrient sources, not to mention the effects of gender, accumulated digestive biota, industrial agriculture, environmental chemicals, etc.
I've had many, many years of trial and error on vegan diets. Read Peter Singer, bought the whole package. What always got me eating animal foods again was chronic iron and zinc deficiency. I just don't absorb these metals from plant or inorganic sources very well. Constant low energy and infections (or various harmful side effects from supplements) aren't worthwhile compromises for me.
[Totally agree, though, that cooking from scratch is worthwhile for those who can afford the time, energy, and ingredient costs for fresh produce. If I could manage to make all the dishes (usually 5 or 6 plus injera bread) in a typical Ethiopian vegan meal on a regular basis, I'd eat nothing else and probably be mostly healthy.]
I have to be extra careful these days due to immunosuppressant use, so while I minimize animal product consumption, I don't avoid it altogether. There's additional research indicating that some omega-3 fatty acids helpful in moderating inflammation aren't easily metabolized from plant precursors, and that's a factor for me as well. I do look for the most ethically sourced and environmentally sound foods I can afford, and happen to live in an area where there are very good options, but that's not available to everyone.
In the end, I ask for some understanding that there is no ideal diet which is universally "good" on all axes for everyone all the time. Yes, most of us could do better, for both our own health and the health of other beings and the ecosystems we share. But pure veganism is not a safely achievable goal for a significant fraction of the populace. The continued insistence that veganism is the only desirable end can be off-putting and deters the more moderate dietary changes that are readily accessible and will still have a significant impact on animal suffering and environmental health.
Out of curiosity (simply because you haven’t mentioned it), have you talked to a registered dietitian about this issue? There may be things they could suggest that would help you get the minerals...
Out of curiosity (simply because you haven’t mentioned it), have you talked to a registered dietitian about this issue? There may be things they could suggest that would help you get the minerals that you have difficulty getting from non-animal forms.
(I feel I may have asked you this in the past so I apologize if I did; I have bad memory)
No, I haven't. It's really difficult to get dietician referrals unless you have a specific disease that requires dietary management; "I'm a vegan" doesn't suffice. I've used various nutrient...
No, I haven't. It's really difficult to get dietician referrals unless you have a specific disease that requires dietary management; "I'm a vegan" doesn't suffice.
I've used various nutrient trackers (currently using Waistline) over the years, I'm fairly well versed in composing diet plans. In theory, I've included more than enough plant-based iron and zinc sources plus (admittedly cheap) supplements in the past. Still wound up with iron-deficiency anemia and zinc deficiency.
Ironically, iron supplements reduce zinc absorption in the body. You could look into something that increases absorption rates for either, as it doesn't appear your intake is too low as much as it...
Ironically, iron supplements reduce zinc absorption in the body. You could look into something that increases absorption rates for either, as it doesn't appear your intake is too low as much as it is your body not absorbing it properly. Proteins increase zinc absorption so perhaps the fact animal proteins seem to help you may be another indication you could look into boosting absorption through other methods.
I'm not skilled whatsoever in any related field so take my comment with a dose of zinc supplements, instead, here's a short snippet from the National Library of Health that says much of what I said with more eloquence and authority.
As the article suggests, amino acid-bound versions of zinc are more readily absorbable. I currently use zinc magnesium aspartate (ZMA) as a nighttime supplement on weightlifting days. I take iron...
As the article suggests, amino acid-bound versions of zinc are more readily absorbable. I currently use zinc magnesium aspartate (ZMA) as a nighttime supplement on weightlifting days. I take iron supplements with Vitamin C in the morning, so there's no risk of interference. The ZMA supplement has a hefty amount of zinc (250% of MDR) at the recommended dose and it's expensive, so I don't take it daily. A couple of times a week seems to be effective both in preventing deficiency symptoms (rashes, infections, slow healing, brittle hair and nails, etc.) and delayed onset muscle soreness.
However, I'm not happy to be taking all the supplements that seem to be required these days (I also have to add folate due to depletion from an arthritis drug, calcium because I'm an old AFAB, fish oil for inflammation, etc.). I don't enjoy the time spent meal planning to try and get proper nutrition on a mostly plant-based diet that's also in slight calorie deficit because I'm trying to shed that last 10 pounds.
I'd like the world to be as simple as Michael Pollan's "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.", but that doesn't seem to work for me.
Ah I'm sorry, I didn't mean to infer you didn't do your due diligence. I know how annoying it can be if someone butts into a convo with superficial information about a condition you clearly...
Ah I'm sorry, I didn't mean to infer you didn't do your due diligence. I know how annoying it can be if someone butts into a convo with superficial information about a condition you clearly already looked into. It's clear to me you've already tried a bunch of things.
That said, I wasn't talking about supplements only and only linked the NLH source as a backup to what I was saying. Rather, the idea that you may find other foods that increase absorption through natural means. You likely found animal protein to fill that requirement but there are potential other foods that allow similar increases in absorption of zinc and/or iron. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a larger potential pool of food you can choose from. None of my post is meant to tell you to stop eating animals FWIW.
I totally understand not enjoying time spent on foodstuffs, I don't either. Again, sorry to butt in, you keep doing you.
No worries, I appreciate the intent. I'm kind of a special snowflake with some unlucky genetic traits. Maintaining my health has required more effort, study, and experimentation than the average...
No worries, I appreciate the intent. I'm kind of a special snowflake with some unlucky genetic traits. Maintaining my health has required more effort, study, and experimentation than the average person has to put in. This particular "YMMV" is an outlier and the info you provided might be helpful for someone else.
From what I understand fish farms are pretty disturbing for fish life. They are packed into small areas leading to contaminated water and they often get sick. Even if you’re just considering the...
From what I understand fish farms are pretty disturbing for fish life. They are packed into small areas leading to contaminated water and they often get sick. Even if you’re just considering the quality of their meat it’s basically like they are rotting while they are still alive.
I really think fish is something that, on a global scale at least, we should seriously reduce. Fish being one of the few animals we majority produce from wildlife means that we aren’t really doing a good job of protecting underwater ecosystems (to put things extremely lightly!) and are risking potential extinction.
I remember sitting down for sushi in the united states years ago and thinking that I should savor this while it lasts cause this is definitely not sustainable.
I remember sitting down for sushi in the united states years ago and thinking that I should savor this while it lasts cause this is definitely not sustainable.
From the article:
The combined impacts of climate change induced ocean warming and the El Niño weather cycle are already extreme this year, and we're just getting started.
Futurama was ahead of its time apparently…
I don't think El Niño is an extinction-level problem for anchovies (yet?), but it will become a serious food cost and scarcity problem for farmed fish, shellfish, and crustaceans in the coming year.
Time for me to work harder on veganism, but aquacultured fish and shrimp seemed like a not-too-horrible animal suffering source and an acceptable carbon output dodge...
In my opinion, killing something for our own pleasure (in this case taste) isn’t respecting the animal so that’s a hard no.
But if you’re not sensitive to this argument (no judgement), consider that fish farms are extremely polluting and wreck the waters around them. They also spread diseases much faster because the fish are cramped together. So, not great.
I am sensitive to the argument about taste, and recognize that concentrated animal farming of any kind can become an environmental disaster.
However, I'm also sensitive to my own suffering. I have not, to date, been able to remain healthy on a diet that contains no animal products whatsoever. YMMV, but I have concrete evidence from lab work that my rheumatoid factors and CRP are consistently lower if I eat fish periodically and supplement with fish oil (but not vegan fish oil substitutes). I'd like to minimize my impact further, but not at the cost of disability.
Sorry to hear that. I’m no MD, you’ve got to do what works for you. I’m sure there are very specific cases where a plant diet is impossible.
As far as anecdotal evidence, I’m healthier on a plant diet. I have so little cholesterol that my doctor couldn’t believe it. My father otoh is off the charts on that same metric.
My partner has a chronic iron deficiency because of the way her body is built. Meat would easily fix that but it’s not compatible with a plant diet. So instead we cook in cast iron and high carbon steel pans and it’s enough to fix it. The same way they give these little iron fishes to the developing world to drop in the cooking pot. It transfers a bit of iron into the food which people absorb and it’s enough to avoid deficiencies.
Overall, I’ve had better health and very reduced allergies from not eating animals anymore. I suspect all the contaminants, antibiotics, etc in the meat didn’t work well for me. Plus cooking things from scratch is delicious and cheaper.
Not minimizing your experience, sharing mine for balance.
As I said, YMMV. There's a huge range of human genetic variation in how we've adapted to available nutrient sources, not to mention the effects of gender, accumulated digestive biota, industrial agriculture, environmental chemicals, etc.
I've had many, many years of trial and error on vegan diets. Read Peter Singer, bought the whole package. What always got me eating animal foods again was chronic iron and zinc deficiency. I just don't absorb these metals from plant or inorganic sources very well. Constant low energy and infections (or various harmful side effects from supplements) aren't worthwhile compromises for me.
[Totally agree, though, that cooking from scratch is worthwhile for those who can afford the time, energy, and ingredient costs for fresh produce. If I could manage to make all the dishes (usually 5 or 6 plus injera bread) in a typical Ethiopian vegan meal on a regular basis, I'd eat nothing else and probably be mostly healthy.]
I have to be extra careful these days due to immunosuppressant use, so while I minimize animal product consumption, I don't avoid it altogether. There's additional research indicating that some omega-3 fatty acids helpful in moderating inflammation aren't easily metabolized from plant precursors, and that's a factor for me as well. I do look for the most ethically sourced and environmentally sound foods I can afford, and happen to live in an area where there are very good options, but that's not available to everyone.
In the end, I ask for some understanding that there is no ideal diet which is universally "good" on all axes for everyone all the time. Yes, most of us could do better, for both our own health and the health of other beings and the ecosystems we share. But pure veganism is not a safely achievable goal for a significant fraction of the populace. The continued insistence that veganism is the only desirable end can be off-putting and deters the more moderate dietary changes that are readily accessible and will still have a significant impact on animal suffering and environmental health.
Out of curiosity (simply because you haven’t mentioned it), have you talked to a registered dietitian about this issue? There may be things they could suggest that would help you get the minerals that you have difficulty getting from non-animal forms.
(I feel I may have asked you this in the past so I apologize if I did; I have bad memory)
No, I haven't. It's really difficult to get dietician referrals unless you have a specific disease that requires dietary management; "I'm a vegan" doesn't suffice.
I've used various nutrient trackers (currently using Waistline) over the years, I'm fairly well versed in composing diet plans. In theory, I've included more than enough plant-based iron and zinc sources plus (admittedly cheap) supplements in the past. Still wound up with iron-deficiency anemia and zinc deficiency.
Ironically, iron supplements reduce zinc absorption in the body. You could look into something that increases absorption rates for either, as it doesn't appear your intake is too low as much as it is your body not absorbing it properly. Proteins increase zinc absorption so perhaps the fact animal proteins seem to help you may be another indication you could look into boosting absorption through other methods.
I'm not skilled whatsoever in any related field so take my comment with a dose of zinc supplements, instead, here's a short snippet from the National Library of Health that says much of what I said with more eloquence and authority.
As the article suggests, amino acid-bound versions of zinc are more readily absorbable. I currently use zinc magnesium aspartate (ZMA) as a nighttime supplement on weightlifting days. I take iron supplements with Vitamin C in the morning, so there's no risk of interference. The ZMA supplement has a hefty amount of zinc (250% of MDR) at the recommended dose and it's expensive, so I don't take it daily. A couple of times a week seems to be effective both in preventing deficiency symptoms (rashes, infections, slow healing, brittle hair and nails, etc.) and delayed onset muscle soreness.
However, I'm not happy to be taking all the supplements that seem to be required these days (I also have to add folate due to depletion from an arthritis drug, calcium because I'm an old AFAB, fish oil for inflammation, etc.). I don't enjoy the time spent meal planning to try and get proper nutrition on a mostly plant-based diet that's also in slight calorie deficit because I'm trying to shed that last 10 pounds.
I'd like the world to be as simple as Michael Pollan's "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.", but that doesn't seem to work for me.
Ah I'm sorry, I didn't mean to infer you didn't do your due diligence. I know how annoying it can be if someone butts into a convo with superficial information about a condition you clearly already looked into. It's clear to me you've already tried a bunch of things.
That said, I wasn't talking about supplements only and only linked the NLH source as a backup to what I was saying. Rather, the idea that you may find other foods that increase absorption through natural means. You likely found animal protein to fill that requirement but there are potential other foods that allow similar increases in absorption of zinc and/or iron. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a larger potential pool of food you can choose from. None of my post is meant to tell you to stop eating animals FWIW.
I totally understand not enjoying time spent on foodstuffs, I don't either. Again, sorry to butt in, you keep doing you.
No worries, I appreciate the intent. I'm kind of a special snowflake with some unlucky genetic traits. Maintaining my health has required more effort, study, and experimentation than the average person has to put in. This particular "YMMV" is an outlier and the info you provided might be helpful for someone else.
From what I understand fish farms are pretty disturbing for fish life. They are packed into small areas leading to contaminated water and they often get sick. Even if you’re just considering the quality of their meat it’s basically like they are rotting while they are still alive.
I really think fish is something that, on a global scale at least, we should seriously reduce. Fish being one of the few animals we majority produce from wildlife means that we aren’t really doing a good job of protecting underwater ecosystems (to put things extremely lightly!) and are risking potential extinction.
I remember sitting down for sushi in the united states years ago and thinking that I should savor this while it lasts cause this is definitely not sustainable.