Even if Denuvo has absolutely zero performance impact, and were to use it's online requirement to validate less frequently and be less of a service pain in the ass to the user, I'm still against...
Even if Denuvo has absolutely zero performance impact, and were to use it's online requirement to validate less frequently and be less of a service pain in the ass to the user, I'm still against it.
Even if there's a hypothetical reality where it somehow can 100% guaranteed, absolutely never interfere with the paying user's experience in any measurable way at all, I'm still against it.
It might sound a bit selfish of me to say that, but these corporations are not my friends. When I say I'm a fan of Sony, Nintendo, or Square-Enix it's actually a shorthand:
I'm not a fan of Sony, or Nintendo, or Square-Enix the companies, I'm a fan of Sony, Nintendo, and Square Enix's writers, artists, composers, game designers, and programmers. I will never care about their executives, shareholders, and least of all specifically, their profits.
You might even be inclined to ask me if I care about a hypothetical where one of these companies loses all their profits and go under, and so we never see a Zelda game or a Final Fantasy game ever again.
I love Zelda, and I love Final Fantasy, and no, I don't care if Nintendo or Square-Enix crashes and burns and we never get a Zelda or Final Fantasy release again. What's done is done, it was fun while it lasted. A dead author does not write new novels but I still enjoyed the old ones.
I'm fundamentally against DRM. I still buy and play games that have DRM despite my concerns, but I trust that crackers will do their thing, and even if the motivation for cracking today is a potentially unethical one like piracy, well, today's piracy is tomorrow's preservation, so I lose no sleep at night knowing it's happening.
Couple footnotes:
To be clear, since it might matter to the Tildes terms of use, I'm not advocating piracy, I'm just saying it doesn't bother me that it happens.
Yes, I'm aware that Denuvo circumvention at the current time is at an all-time low with only 1 person seemingly capable or at least actively doing it, but now is not forever. Even if it happens when the games are 20 years old, I'm sure it will happen.
I'm also aware that cracking groups / the "warez scene" has always claimed that piracy and p2p are not their purpose and that it's all some kind of competitive spirit or overcoming challenges that is above the banality of piracy, but honestly... I've never really believed them.
DRM as a concept is evil and stupid. No amount of marketting will change that. It's evil because it's for a company to retain ownership of the product it sells instead of the user. Right to repair...
DRM as a concept is evil and stupid. No amount of marketting will change that.
It's evil because it's for a company to retain ownership of the product it sells instead of the user. Right to repair is all about breaking DRM.
It's stupid because it's just endless epicycles that waste cpu resources. If you want a person to see the DRM content, you have to hand them the keys at some point.
I'll tolerate DRM in rental-like situations like Netflix. I won't for physical stuff and software I ostensibly purchase.
I personally agree with all you said, corporations dying because of a failed game is their own fault, success stories with lots of pc sales prove it: just make a good game, and the money will...
I personally agree with all you said, corporations dying because of a failed game is their own fault, success stories with lots of pc sales prove it: just make a good game, and the money will come.
From the perspective of investors I can understand the need, however that need ceases to exists after a certain amount of time. Remove it for paying customers at that point. Heck I'm mostly a patient gamer anyway so I'll probably wait for that.
It's pretty ballsy of them to open themselves up to independent benchmarks, but there could still be reason to be skeptical of the performance claims if they aren't transparent enough: Is the...
It's pretty ballsy of them to open themselves up to independent benchmarks, but there could still be reason to be skeptical of the performance claims if they aren't transparent enough:
Is the coverage sponsored?
Is Irdeto determining which games get benchmarked?
Is Irdeto applying Denuvo to the unpatched game, or is this being done by the benchmarkers?
Also how are these independent benchmarkers getting non-denuvo versions to test against? are they getting them from Irdeto, if so, how can they trust they are actually non-denuvo versions. If I...
Also how are these independent benchmarkers getting non-denuvo versions to test against? are they getting them from Irdeto, if so, how can they trust they are actually non-denuvo versions. If I were an evil drm business and I wanted to prove my DRM has no performance impact from vanilla, I'd provide two copies of the software that were identical, and claim they were different.
It’s very easy to determine if s game has Denuvo or not. You can make a pretty accurate guess just based on the exe file size, but there are other ways to verifynitnas well.
It’s very easy to determine if s game has Denuvo or not. You can make a pretty accurate guess just based on the exe file size, but there are other ways to verifynitnas well.
They missed the mark on that, or at least they do as if they missed the mark. The thing that people don't like is that they pay a game which locks down what you can do with it, things like needing...
As it turns out, the people who make Denuvo are keenly aware of their image in the wider gaming world. "In the pirating/cracking community, we're seen as evil because we're helping DRM exist and we're ensuring people make money out of games," Huin told Ars.
They missed the mark on that, or at least they do as if they missed the mark. The thing that people don't like is that they pay a game which locks down what you can do with it, things like needing internet to play an offline game or the game breaking because of DRM. As for my own opinion: I am against DRM in principle, but I understand that publishers want some barier to cracking. I think Valves DRM system is a good compromise.
I always thought Denuvo was basically the devil and costs a lot of performance. I definitely understand the need from a publisher's perspective to protect their investment even though DRM isn't...
I always thought Denuvo was basically the devil and costs a lot of performance. I definitely understand the need from a publisher's perspective to protect their investment even though DRM isn't the only way to do so and costs goodwill.
Apparently Denuvo is working on a proof to show us and the gaming press that their software doesn't cost performance. I'm curious how that will pan out. Furthermore they skip conveniently over the always online requirement and preventing preservation of old games, two other downsides of Denuvo from my point of view.
I disagree. There isn’t a single source that proves that DRM actually saves a company money as most people who pirate games wouldn’t have bought it anyway. A lot of people also pirate to test...
I definitely understand the need from a publisher's perspective to protect their investment
I disagree. There isn’t a single source that proves that DRM actually saves a company money as most people who pirate games wouldn’t have bought it anyway. A lot of people also pirate to test games before buying them, these would be lost sales because of DRM.
Then we also have games that are DRM free but are worldwide best sellers, further proving that spending thousands of dollars on Denuvo is a waste of money.
I don’t think any of my games on Steam have Denuvo(I don’t think there’s a quick way to check all my games), and I don’t intend to change that anytime soon. DRM IS evil when it hurts the paying...
I don’t think any of my games on Steam have Denuvo(I don’t think there’s a quick way to check all my games), and I don’t intend to change that anytime soon.
DRM IS evil when it hurts the paying customers instead of pirates, though.
There is no easy way to check but there is a Steam curator that you can subscribe to which will then show denuvo status. It's unofficial so may not be complete but I think it's helpful....
There is no easy way to check but there is a Steam curator that you can subscribe to which will then show denuvo status. It's unofficial so may not be complete but I think it's helpful.
Even if Denuvo has absolutely zero performance impact, and were to use it's online requirement to validate less frequently and be less of a service pain in the ass to the user, I'm still against it.
Even if there's a hypothetical reality where it somehow can 100% guaranteed, absolutely never interfere with the paying user's experience in any measurable way at all, I'm still against it.
It might sound a bit selfish of me to say that, but these corporations are not my friends. When I say I'm a fan of Sony, Nintendo, or Square-Enix it's actually a shorthand:
I'm not a fan of Sony, or Nintendo, or Square-Enix the companies, I'm a fan of Sony, Nintendo, and Square Enix's writers, artists, composers, game designers, and programmers. I will never care about their executives, shareholders, and least of all specifically, their profits.
You might even be inclined to ask me if I care about a hypothetical where one of these companies loses all their profits and go under, and so we never see a Zelda game or a Final Fantasy game ever again.
I love Zelda, and I love Final Fantasy, and no, I don't care if Nintendo or Square-Enix crashes and burns and we never get a Zelda or Final Fantasy release again. What's done is done, it was fun while it lasted. A dead author does not write new novels but I still enjoyed the old ones.
I'm fundamentally against DRM. I still buy and play games that have DRM despite my concerns, but I trust that crackers will do their thing, and even if the motivation for cracking today is a potentially unethical one like piracy, well, today's piracy is tomorrow's preservation, so I lose no sleep at night knowing it's happening.
Couple footnotes:
To be clear, since it might matter to the Tildes terms of use, I'm not advocating piracy, I'm just saying it doesn't bother me that it happens.
Yes, I'm aware that Denuvo circumvention at the current time is at an all-time low with only 1 person seemingly capable or at least actively doing it, but now is not forever. Even if it happens when the games are 20 years old, I'm sure it will happen.
I'm also aware that cracking groups / the "warez scene" has always claimed that piracy and p2p are not their purpose and that it's all some kind of competitive spirit or overcoming challenges that is above the banality of piracy, but honestly... I've never really believed them.
DRM as a concept is evil and stupid. No amount of marketting will change that.
It's evil because it's for a company to retain ownership of the product it sells instead of the user. Right to repair is all about breaking DRM.
It's stupid because it's just endless epicycles that waste cpu resources. If you want a person to see the DRM content, you have to hand them the keys at some point.
I'll tolerate DRM in rental-like situations like Netflix. I won't for physical stuff and software I ostensibly purchase.
I personally agree with all you said, corporations dying because of a failed game is their own fault, success stories with lots of pc sales prove it: just make a good game, and the money will come.
From the perspective of investors I can understand the need, however that need ceases to exists after a certain amount of time. Remove it for paying customers at that point. Heck I'm mostly a patient gamer anyway so I'll probably wait for that.
Unless you break the rules, you can say whatever you want about piracy on Tildes. Just don't provide direct links to pirated material.
It's pretty ballsy of them to open themselves up to independent benchmarks, but there could still be reason to be skeptical of the performance claims if they aren't transparent enough:
Also how are these independent benchmarkers getting non-denuvo versions to test against? are they getting them from Irdeto, if so, how can they trust they are actually non-denuvo versions. If I were an evil drm business and I wanted to prove my DRM has no performance impact from vanilla, I'd provide two copies of the software that were identical, and claim they were different.
It’s very easy to determine if s game has Denuvo or not. You can make a pretty accurate guess just based on the exe file size, but there are other ways to verifynitnas well.
Any form of DRM is evil and inherently anti-consumer, so...uh, fat chance.
They missed the mark on that, or at least they do as if they missed the mark. The thing that people don't like is that they pay a game which locks down what you can do with it, things like needing internet to play an offline game or the game breaking because of DRM. As for my own opinion: I am against DRM in principle, but I understand that publishers want some barier to cracking. I think Valves DRM system is a good compromise.
I always thought Denuvo was basically the devil and costs a lot of performance. I definitely understand the need from a publisher's perspective to protect their investment even though DRM isn't the only way to do so and costs goodwill.
Apparently Denuvo is working on a proof to show us and the gaming press that their software doesn't cost performance. I'm curious how that will pan out. Furthermore they skip conveniently over the always online requirement and preventing preservation of old games, two other downsides of Denuvo from my point of view.
I disagree. There isn’t a single source that proves that DRM actually saves a company money as most people who pirate games wouldn’t have bought it anyway. A lot of people also pirate to test games before buying them, these would be lost sales because of DRM.
Then we also have games that are DRM free but are worldwide best sellers, further proving that spending thousands of dollars on Denuvo is a waste of money.
I don’t think any of my games on Steam have Denuvo(I don’t think there’s a quick way to check all my games), and I don’t intend to change that anytime soon.
DRM IS evil when it hurts the paying customers instead of pirates, though.
There is no easy way to check but there is a Steam curator that you can subscribe to which will then show denuvo status. It's unofficial so may not be complete but I think it's helpful.
https://store.steampowered.com/curator/26095454-Denuvo-Games/
There's a very good chance that if you own any AAA games they have or at least had denuvo at some point.