GameInformer asks Christian Whitehead and Takashi Iizuka what happened to Sonic Mania 2. The follow-up 2D Sonic game is going to be Sonic Superstars, developed from the ground up. Meanwhile,...
GameInformer asks Christian Whitehead and Takashi Iizuka what happened to Sonic Mania 2. The follow-up 2D Sonic game is going to be Sonic Superstars, developed from the ground up. Meanwhile, Whitehead and Evening Star announced a 3D platformer, Penny's Big Breakaway, recently.
Whitehead dispels the rumour that Sonic Mania 2 was cancelled because of "bad blood" between the devs and Sega.
One thing I disagree with was how they talked about how 2D gameplay targets a small group of people, which is why they’re making sonic superstars mixed 2D/3D. I think the fact that sonic mania did...
One thing I disagree with was how they talked about how 2D gameplay targets a small group of people, which is why they’re making sonic superstars mixed 2D/3D. I think the fact that sonic mania did so well proves this idea wrong. There are a ton of modern 2D games that are super successful (terraria, shovel knight, etc), so I wouldn’t say it appeals to a small niche audience.
I really dislike that they decided to take it into a combined 2D/3d style. They tried this with sonic 4 and it was…..meh. I don’t want modern sonic mechanics (target locking for example), and I don’t want a modern art style. If I want a 3d sonic game I’ll play the “modern sonic” games like sonic adventure. I remember playing the classic sonic levels from sonic generations and thinking that this didn’t have the feel of the games I played as a kid on the sega genesis.
Sonic mania had captured the magic of genesis-era sonic games and expanded on it in a natural way, which is why I love it so much. There’s a certain feel and aesthetic that you lose to go to 3d. I don’t really care if Christian or any of the old developers gave their blessing, I really don’t trust sega to make a competent sonic game as their track record has been really spotty. I just want a true 2D sonic game that has the same feel as the genesis era games.
Considering his history with making and remaking classic Sonic games, I'd say Christian's blessing goes a long way. Even more so when he explicitly says Mania's physics are being carried over.
Considering his history with making and remaking classic Sonic games, I'd say Christian's blessing goes a long way. Even more so when he explicitly says Mania's physics are being carried over.
I wouldn't say it targets a small group of people but it definitely has a somewhat limited appeal imo. Sonic Mania sold 8 million units, it's the best selling Sonic in a long time... but it is an...
One thing I disagree with was how they talked about how 2D gameplay targets a small group of people, which is why they’re making sonic superstars mixed 2D/3D. I think the fact that sonic mania did so well proves this idea wrong.
I wouldn't say it targets a small group of people but it definitely has a somewhat limited appeal imo. Sonic Mania sold 8 million units, it's the best selling Sonic in a long time... but it is an outlier.
You can say that the other 2D Sonic games have been of middling quality but I think most would say the same of the 3D games... and the 3D games consistently sell much better. I don't know anybody who thought Sonic Forces was a good game but it sold almost 5 million copies anyway.
Personally I think Sonic Mania recaptured the magic of the 2D games but you can only do that so many times before 2D Sonic is just beaten into the ground. The 2D style needs a GOOD reinvention and I think 2.5D stuff like Sonic Generations was an attempt at that. Sonic needs its "New Super Mario Bros.".
The appeal of Sonic Forces was making your own character and the meme potential. The story had me laughing because it's the kind of edgy story I'd come up with in elementary and middle school (and...
The appeal of Sonic Forces was making your own character and the meme potential. The story had me laughing because it's the kind of edgy story I'd come up with in elementary and middle school (and I mean that literally, I had storylines like that), which made me realize that's probably why it sold so well. It's all the middle school fan fiction in video game form, so that's just fun for kids in that range.
Sonic Mania meanwhile feels like it's meant to appeal to the more "serious" fans. It's based on the 2D games, but having someone besides Sega and who had a reputation for good 2D Sonic games boosted its reputation. Basically, people familiar with Christian Whitehead's work went in with the expectation it would be good—not something that can be said about the other Sonic games. And that general attitude spread to people who didn't know him. Once the game was released and met those expectations, it just led to natural interest.
Also, it helps that Sonic Mania is actually fairly cheap compared to the other Sonic games. $20 at full price, and I see it go on sale pretty regularly on the Nintendo eshop and Steam for $10. Sometimes even $7.99. Much easier to buy on a whim.
Agreed. This feels more like a marketing decision. Personally, I haven't liked a Sega made Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles. Mania was such a great return to form because Sega had nothing to do...
Agreed. This feels more like a marketing decision. Personally, I haven't liked a Sega made Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles. Mania was such a great return to form because Sega had nothing to do with it.
See, I've had the opposite problem for most post 06 3D games. 2D fans kept getting stuff made for them, but the devs kept shoving 2D mechanics and even Classic Sonic into what we're supposed to be...
See, I've had the opposite problem for most post 06 3D games. 2D fans kept getting stuff made for them, but the devs kept shoving 2D mechanics and even Classic Sonic into what we're supposed to be the 3D games.
I didn't want classic sonic mechanics in my modern games, but it seemed the team was intent on them.
Ironically, as a predominantly-2D/Classic fan, I can't say I feel all that satisfied with a lot of it either. I love the hell out of Unleashed HD, but even in its 2D segments, it hits a very...
Ironically, as a predominantly-2D/Classic fan, I can't say I feel all that satisfied with a lot of it either. I love the hell out of Unleashed HD, but even in its 2D segments, it hits a very different feeling to actual "Classic" Sonic, which is what I really want. Colours was also good, but I think categorizing it as a 3D game is honestly a bit misleading, due to just how much of it is 2D sections (and even when it is 3D, some of it's paper-thin, if not outright automated). Generations was fine, though in hindsight Classic Sonic in Generations is kinda lackluster too, with a lot of it being automated/scripted to work "as intended", and Forces... not only did Classic Sonic in Forces feel absolutely shoehorned in for no good reason, he also felt awful to play as, IMHO. I think it would've been a much better game (or, well, at least had better potential) on just about every level if they'd kept it to the Avatar and Modern Sonic. Meanwhile, as far as 2D stuff goes... the Rush games were fun, but they weren't really "Classic" either, barring some aesthetic choices, and no matter how much Sonic 4 claimed to be returning to the series' roots, one you strip off the paint, it's just Sonic Rush 3, basically, and not in a good way.
Frontiers is pretty easily the most fun I've had with a modern 3D Sonic game since Unleashed - which I find interesting, because I feel like on one hand, other than the recycling of stage aesthetics from Generations for the cyber-space levels (which is getting old by now, please let Green Hill rest already) and Chaos Island being 99% 2D (which was pretty easily the lowest point of the main game IMO), it's probably the least reliant on "Classic" tropes the series has been in a while - but on the other hand, it's also the closest any 3D game (save Adventure 1) has ever gotten to scratching the same itch as the Genesis games. Just running and rolling around, building up speed while running down slopes and rocketing over the terrain - it's not perfect, but it's still so nice.
This, uh, kinda turned into a longer ramble than I meant it to be, sorry! But from a Classic fan's perspective, while there's been a lot of lip service, there hasn't been much beyond Mania that's really been all that substantial, either. I'm curious about how Superstars is going to play out though, especially with Taxman (Christian Whitehead) giving the physics his blessing, and I've got my fingers crossed that Sega builds on the Frontiers format in an interesting way without abandoning it after a few games.
OT: It's nice to know that Mania 2 just didn't pan out, rather than it being due to bad blood between Sega and Headcannon & co. While I'm still a little wary about Superstars just because of Sega's track record, seeing Taxman's approval of the physics and hearing about how some of it evolved from discussions about where to go next with the Mania devs, I have to admit I'm feeling a little more optimistic.
I fully agree, the modern graphics made me instantly wary of this game. This is the path I wish they had taken. A hand-drawn 2D Sonic would have been fresh af. And they have done so many excellent...
I fully agree, the modern graphics made me instantly wary of this game.
Sonic Mania 2 was never in development, though, because we actually agreed early on that we should try to make something fresh, like hand-drawn 2D or 2.5D.
This is the path I wish they had taken. A hand-drawn 2D Sonic would have been fresh af. And they have done so many excellent hand-drawn cartoons recently with Mania and Origins that this would have fit snuggly within the new Classic Sonic aesthetic. Knowing this was on the table and ultimately not chosen makes me so sad. I’m really not feeling the “Sonic 4” look of this game at all, it feels too busy for Sonic and makes it hard to track things at top speed, but the Retro Engine physics means I’ll probably give this a go eventually. Still, I can’t help but wonder how beautiful the game could have been if they had gone with hand-drawn graphics instead, like if Cuphead was Sonic. It would be like playing the old Saturday morning cartoons.
I would love mania 2 but I am fine if they want to do something different, hopefully this will let them keep the gameplay fresh and build on what made mania fun.
I would love mania 2 but I am fine if they want to do something different, hopefully this will let them keep the gameplay fresh and build on what made mania fun.
GameInformer asks Christian Whitehead and Takashi Iizuka what happened to Sonic Mania 2. The follow-up 2D Sonic game is going to be Sonic Superstars, developed from the ground up. Meanwhile, Whitehead and Evening Star announced a 3D platformer, Penny's Big Breakaway, recently.
Whitehead dispels the rumour that Sonic Mania 2 was cancelled because of "bad blood" between the devs and Sega.
One thing I disagree with was how they talked about how 2D gameplay targets a small group of people, which is why they’re making sonic superstars mixed 2D/3D. I think the fact that sonic mania did so well proves this idea wrong. There are a ton of modern 2D games that are super successful (terraria, shovel knight, etc), so I wouldn’t say it appeals to a small niche audience.
I really dislike that they decided to take it into a combined 2D/3d style. They tried this with sonic 4 and it was…..meh. I don’t want modern sonic mechanics (target locking for example), and I don’t want a modern art style. If I want a 3d sonic game I’ll play the “modern sonic” games like sonic adventure. I remember playing the classic sonic levels from sonic generations and thinking that this didn’t have the feel of the games I played as a kid on the sega genesis.
Sonic mania had captured the magic of genesis-era sonic games and expanded on it in a natural way, which is why I love it so much. There’s a certain feel and aesthetic that you lose to go to 3d. I don’t really care if Christian or any of the old developers gave their blessing, I really don’t trust sega to make a competent sonic game as their track record has been really spotty. I just want a true 2D sonic game that has the same feel as the genesis era games.
Considering his history with making and remaking classic Sonic games, I'd say Christian's blessing goes a long way. Even more so when he explicitly says Mania's physics are being carried over.
I wouldn't say it targets a small group of people but it definitely has a somewhat limited appeal imo. Sonic Mania sold 8 million units, it's the best selling Sonic in a long time... but it is an outlier.
You can say that the other 2D Sonic games have been of middling quality but I think most would say the same of the 3D games... and the 3D games consistently sell much better. I don't know anybody who thought Sonic Forces was a good game but it sold almost 5 million copies anyway.
Personally I think Sonic Mania recaptured the magic of the 2D games but you can only do that so many times before 2D Sonic is just beaten into the ground. The 2D style needs a GOOD reinvention and I think 2.5D stuff like Sonic Generations was an attempt at that. Sonic needs its "New Super Mario Bros.".
The appeal of Sonic Forces was making your own character and the meme potential. The story had me laughing because it's the kind of edgy story I'd come up with in elementary and middle school (and I mean that literally, I had storylines like that), which made me realize that's probably why it sold so well. It's all the middle school fan fiction in video game form, so that's just fun for kids in that range.
Sonic Mania meanwhile feels like it's meant to appeal to the more "serious" fans. It's based on the 2D games, but having someone besides Sega and who had a reputation for good 2D Sonic games boosted its reputation. Basically, people familiar with Christian Whitehead's work went in with the expectation it would be good—not something that can be said about the other Sonic games. And that general attitude spread to people who didn't know him. Once the game was released and met those expectations, it just led to natural interest.
Also, it helps that Sonic Mania is actually fairly cheap compared to the other Sonic games. $20 at full price, and I see it go on sale pretty regularly on the Nintendo eshop and Steam for $10. Sometimes even $7.99. Much easier to buy on a whim.
Agreed. This feels more like a marketing decision. Personally, I haven't liked a Sega made Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles. Mania was such a great return to form because Sega had nothing to do with it.
See, I've had the opposite problem for most post 06 3D games. 2D fans kept getting stuff made for them, but the devs kept shoving 2D mechanics and even Classic Sonic into what we're supposed to be the 3D games.
I didn't want classic sonic mechanics in my modern games, but it seemed the team was intent on them.
Ironically, as a predominantly-2D/Classic fan, I can't say I feel all that satisfied with a lot of it either. I love the hell out of Unleashed HD, but even in its 2D segments, it hits a very different feeling to actual "Classic" Sonic, which is what I really want. Colours was also good, but I think categorizing it as a 3D game is honestly a bit misleading, due to just how much of it is 2D sections (and even when it is 3D, some of it's paper-thin, if not outright automated). Generations was fine, though in hindsight Classic Sonic in Generations is kinda lackluster too, with a lot of it being automated/scripted to work "as intended", and Forces... not only did Classic Sonic in Forces feel absolutely shoehorned in for no good reason, he also felt awful to play as, IMHO. I think it would've been a much better game (or, well, at least had better potential) on just about every level if they'd kept it to the Avatar and Modern Sonic. Meanwhile, as far as 2D stuff goes... the Rush games were fun, but they weren't really "Classic" either, barring some aesthetic choices, and no matter how much Sonic 4 claimed to be returning to the series' roots, one you strip off the paint, it's just Sonic Rush 3, basically, and not in a good way.
Frontiers is pretty easily the most fun I've had with a modern 3D Sonic game since Unleashed - which I find interesting, because I feel like on one hand, other than the recycling of stage aesthetics from Generations for the cyber-space levels (which is getting old by now, please let Green Hill rest already) and Chaos Island being 99% 2D (which was pretty easily the lowest point of the main game IMO), it's probably the least reliant on "Classic" tropes the series has been in a while - but on the other hand, it's also the closest any 3D game (save Adventure 1) has ever gotten to scratching the same itch as the Genesis games. Just running and rolling around, building up speed while running down slopes and rocketing over the terrain - it's not perfect, but it's still so nice.
This, uh, kinda turned into a longer ramble than I meant it to be, sorry! But from a Classic fan's perspective, while there's been a lot of lip service, there hasn't been much beyond Mania that's really been all that substantial, either. I'm curious about how Superstars is going to play out though, especially with Taxman (Christian Whitehead) giving the physics his blessing, and I've got my fingers crossed that Sega builds on the Frontiers format in an interesting way without abandoning it after a few games.
OT: It's nice to know that Mania 2 just didn't pan out, rather than it being due to bad blood between Sega and Headcannon & co. While I'm still a little wary about Superstars just because of Sega's track record, seeing Taxman's approval of the physics and hearing about how some of it evolved from discussions about where to go next with the Mania devs, I have to admit I'm feeling a little more optimistic.
I fully agree, the modern graphics made me instantly wary of this game.
This is the path I wish they had taken. A hand-drawn 2D Sonic would have been fresh af. And they have done so many excellent hand-drawn cartoons recently with Mania and Origins that this would have fit snuggly within the new Classic Sonic aesthetic. Knowing this was on the table and ultimately not chosen makes me so sad. I’m really not feeling the “Sonic 4” look of this game at all, it feels too busy for Sonic and makes it hard to track things at top speed, but the Retro Engine physics means I’ll probably give this a go eventually. Still, I can’t help but wonder how beautiful the game could have been if they had gone with hand-drawn graphics instead, like if Cuphead was Sonic. It would be like playing the old Saturday morning cartoons.
I would love mania 2 but I am fine if they want to do something different, hopefully this will let them keep the gameplay fresh and build on what made mania fun.
Yea I think having it not be genesis-based sprites was a really good choice