From /r/mud: Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/15k291c/evennia_220_released_now_with_ai_support/ I have wanted smart NPCs for decades. It is both exciting and entirely expected that...
Evennia 2.2.0 is out! Evennia is an OSS Python server framework for creating MU*s.
This release consists mostly of bug fixes, but there's also a new optional contrib for making your NPCs more intelligent by having them use an LLM (Large Language Model) under the hood!
I have wanted smart NPCs for decades. It is both exciting and entirely expected that MUDs are among the first in that territory.
If you're a developer, I encourage you to do something with Evennia. It's a flexible tool that allows you to do new interesting things more easily than other codebases.
Unfortunately, like many niche communities, /r/mud is way more concerned with the past than the future, and lack the enthusiasm to appreciate what Evennia has to offer.
Evennia is pretty great! I've got this grand vision of putting together a little MUD that is largely a group chat for my friends where you can also just roam around and fight goblins if you want....
Evennia is pretty great! I've got this grand vision of putting together a little MUD that is largely a group chat for my friends where you can also just roam around and fight goblins if you want.
My codebase was getting a little hairy around combat when I ran out of steam last time. I see their tutorial covers combat now so maybe I should get back to it and compare notes...
That is awesome. You're not trying to make a full blown MMORPG, which is not the right idea for most people, and, obviously, what everyone wanna do. A chatroom with a bit of gameplay is, to many,...
That is awesome. You're not trying to make a full blown MMORPG, which is not the right idea for most people, and, obviously, what everyone wanna do.
A chatroom with a bit of gameplay is, to many, the very definition of a MUSH. But MUSHEs have roleplay.
I dream of making my own MUD, but people are seduced by the idea that a text game is inherently easy to do. That is not the case. And I can't code anyway.
I'd love to check out your game, even if you're only comfortable with giving a temporary guest access. Let me know ;)
If it ever gets to the point where there's content I'll let you know! At the moment you spawn in a featureless void and can go to a combat arena with one combat dummy :P
If it ever gets to the point where there's content I'll let you know! At the moment you spawn in a featureless void and can go to a combat arena with one combat dummy :P
I've been eyeing Evennia for awhile now as a foundation framework to build out a MUD. Thinking this update has definitely sealed the deal. I actually tend to think a lot of people could enjoy MUDs...
I've been eyeing Evennia for awhile now as a foundation framework to build out a MUD. Thinking this update has definitely sealed the deal. I actually tend to think a lot of people could enjoy MUDs if they updated their systems a bit. Some exciting times!!
One thing that worries me about using LLM for NPCs is being told something that's not true (for example, where some treasure supposedly is because the AI hallucinated it), which wouldn't really...
One thing that worries me about using LLM for NPCs is being told something that's not true (for example, where some treasure supposedly is because the AI hallucinated it), which wouldn't really feel too great once you realize you've been fooled. Though I suppose it might depend on the implementation and measures taken to prevent this kind of things from happening. I'm definitely pretty excited for what games could by utilising LLMs, though.
Most MUDs are not like regular commercial games. They are, essentially, fan games. And even the few commercial MUDs are not nearly as polished as their graphical counterparts. They're old too, few...
Most MUDs are not like regular commercial games. They are, essentially, fan games. And even the few commercial MUDs are not nearly as polished as their graphical counterparts.
They're old too, few MUDs were made after the 1990s.
Players are expected to be way more forgiving about bugs and uneven quality, becoming proficient at circumventing broken mechanics and design. So MUDs are an ideal environment for precisely this kind of experimentation to take place.
I think this depends entirely on the game and how the LLM is used. There could be something like The Stanley Parable where you use an LLM just to describe what the character is doing. And for...
I think this depends entirely on the game and how the LLM is used. There could be something like The Stanley Parable where you use an LLM just to describe what the character is doing. And for anything prescriptive you'd pull from the voice acted lines. Or maybe the story sets up the possibility that the LLM-voiced NPC can lie to you, or is not quite sane, etc.
You could make interpreting the information part of the challenge. The NPC could be unreliable, and it's up for you to fact check their output in relation to other sources of in-game information....
You could make interpreting the information part of the challenge. The NPC could be unreliable, and it's up for you to fact check their output in relation to other sources of in-game information.
An unreliable reporter is not even that much of a stretch, well meaning humans are mistaken all the time. And most MUDs are fantasy, so there's no fictional internet for characters to look stuff up. It is believable for these NPCs to be confidently wrong.
Would be funny if the game made them roll for behaving like they lied to you on purpose because they're aligned with the antagonist. Though a bit weird if you were the one to lie about not finding...
wouldn't really feel too great once you realize you've been fooled
Would be funny if the game made them roll for behaving like they lied to you on purpose because they're aligned with the antagonist.
Though a bit weird if you were the one to lie about not finding the treasure. Then again, the game would know if you had found something at the given location even if it wasn't generated yet when you first conversed with the NPC.
I thought Evennia had a public "demo" server, but I guess I probably got it confused with the default content they distribute with the software. I was hoping to hop on and give it a try.
I thought Evennia had a public "demo" server, but I guess I probably got it confused with the default content they distribute with the software. I was hoping to hop on and give it a try.
The live demo exists, but it's currently down for maintenance. Keep checking their home page for an update. It's more of a Public Test Realm than just a demo, it is in active development and will...
The live demo exists, but it's currently down for maintenance. Keep checking their home page for an update.
It's more of a Public Test Realm than just a demo, it is in active development and will eventually be released as a complete game.
I didn't play much of it, but from what I remember there's nothing too "Evennia-like" in the actual game, since they're probably trying to demonstrate how it can do a traditional MUD just fine. If I was a developer I would be interested in doing the opposite -- trying new interesting things and doing something that doesn't feel like a regular MUD, or a MUD at all.
You do have access to the build tools, which I bet are cool and specific.
From /r/mud:
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/15k291c/evennia_220_released_now_with_ai_support/
I have wanted smart NPCs for decades. It is both exciting and entirely expected that MUDs are among the first in that territory.
If you're a developer, I encourage you to do something with Evennia. It's a flexible tool that allows you to do new interesting things more easily than other codebases.
Unfortunately, like many niche communities, /r/mud is way more concerned with the past than the future, and lack the enthusiasm to appreciate what Evennia has to offer.
Evennia is pretty great! I've got this grand vision of putting together a little MUD that is largely a group chat for my friends where you can also just roam around and fight goblins if you want.
My codebase was getting a little hairy around combat when I ran out of steam last time. I see their tutorial covers combat now so maybe I should get back to it and compare notes...
That is awesome. You're not trying to make a full blown MMORPG, which is not the right idea for most people, and, obviously, what everyone wanna do.
A chatroom with a bit of gameplay is, to many, the very definition of a MUSH. But MUSHEs have roleplay.
I dream of making my own MUD, but people are seduced by the idea that a text game is inherently easy to do. That is not the case. And I can't code anyway.
I'd love to check out your game, even if you're only comfortable with giving a temporary guest access. Let me know ;)
If it ever gets to the point where there's content I'll let you know! At the moment you spawn in a featureless void and can go to a combat arena with one combat dummy :P
This is very cool! Thanks for sharing it
I've been eyeing Evennia for awhile now as a foundation framework to build out a MUD. Thinking this update has definitely sealed the deal. I actually tend to think a lot of people could enjoy MUDs if they updated their systems a bit. Some exciting times!!
I agree 100%.
Tell me about your MUD :)
One thing that worries me about using LLM for NPCs is being told something that's not true (for example, where some treasure supposedly is because the AI hallucinated it), which wouldn't really feel too great once you realize you've been fooled. Though I suppose it might depend on the implementation and measures taken to prevent this kind of things from happening. I'm definitely pretty excited for what games could by utilising LLMs, though.
Most MUDs are not like regular commercial games. They are, essentially, fan games. And even the few commercial MUDs are not nearly as polished as their graphical counterparts.
They're old too, few MUDs were made after the 1990s.
Players are expected to be way more forgiving about bugs and uneven quality, becoming proficient at circumventing broken mechanics and design. So MUDs are an ideal environment for precisely this kind of experimentation to take place.
I think this depends entirely on the game and how the LLM is used. There could be something like The Stanley Parable where you use an LLM just to describe what the character is doing. And for anything prescriptive you'd pull from the voice acted lines. Or maybe the story sets up the possibility that the LLM-voiced NPC can lie to you, or is not quite sane, etc.
You could make interpreting the information part of the challenge. The NPC could be unreliable, and it's up for you to fact check their output in relation to other sources of in-game information.
An unreliable reporter is not even that much of a stretch, well meaning humans are mistaken all the time. And most MUDs are fantasy, so there's no fictional internet for characters to look stuff up. It is believable for these NPCs to be confidently wrong.
Would be funny if the game made them roll for behaving like they lied to you on purpose because they're aligned with the antagonist.
Though a bit weird if you were the one to lie about not finding the treasure. Then again, the game would know if you had found something at the given location even if it wasn't generated yet when you first conversed with the NPC.
I thought Evennia had a public "demo" server, but I guess I probably got it confused with the default content they distribute with the software. I was hoping to hop on and give it a try.
The live demo exists, but it's currently down for maintenance. Keep checking their home page for an update.
It's more of a Public Test Realm than just a demo, it is in active development and will eventually be released as a complete game.
I didn't play much of it, but from what I remember there's nothing too "Evennia-like" in the actual game, since they're probably trying to demonstrate how it can do a traditional MUD just fine. If I was a developer I would be interested in doing the opposite -- trying new interesting things and doing something that doesn't feel like a regular MUD, or a MUD at all.
You do have access to the build tools, which I bet are cool and specific.
Here's a list with all Evennia games currently live, in different stages of development.