17 votes

‘The Division 2’ Coming to Epic Games Store, Pulled From Steam

13 comments

  1. [13]
    Deimos
    Link
    This is a pretty big game for Steam to lose. The Division wasn't huge, but it was definitely significant. It's still in the "Bronze" section of Steam's top sellers of 2018 even though it came out...

    This is a pretty big game for Steam to lose. The Division wasn't huge, but it was definitely significant. It's still in the "Bronze" section of Steam's top sellers of 2018 even though it came out almost 3 years ago now.

    I expect Ubisoft is also planning to use this as a test to see if dropping Steam for more of their games is a good idea, and they definitely have enough big-name games to make an impact.

    16 votes
    1. [12]
      hungariantoast
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I find it ironic that Ubisoft has moved a game (and potentially will move many more) to the Epic store rather than to their Uplay client. I'm not complaining, because at this point I would like to...

      I find it ironic that Ubisoft has moved a game (and potentially will move many more) to the Epic store rather than to their Uplay client.

      I'm not complaining, because at this point I would like to see more support get thrown behind the Epic store, I'm just surprised that Ubisoft took this route.

      Ubisoft definitely puts out enough popular titles that I think missing them on Steam could set off alarms at Valve, but aside from cutting the amount of money they take from developers, what can Valve really do to compete at this point?

      9 votes
      1. [8]
        Deimos
        Link Parent
        I think they'll probably just need to reduce their cut if this continues. Right now, for consumers, Steam is better than Epic (and other alternatives) in almost every way. It has a lot of features...

        aside from cutting the amount of money they take from developers, what can Valve really do to compete at this point?

        I think they'll probably just need to reduce their cut if this continues. Right now, for consumers, Steam is better than Epic (and other alternatives) in almost every way. It has a lot of features like forums, reviews, achievements, more currencies, a better refund process, and so on. In the current state, if the same game is available at the same price on both the Epic store and Steam, almost nobody would choose to buy it from Epic, there's no reason to. Epic clearly knows this, and that's why their strategy is based so heavily around exclusives.

        I thought this was an interesting article about it, by an indie dev that I really like (the guy behind the "Cook, Serve, Delicious" games): The Epic Store, In Its Current State, is Not Good for Anyone

        11 votes
        1. hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          Well, I finally got around to reading the article you linked and it shook up my opinion of Epic quite a bit. I am really curious to know why they released such a minimal client? It seems to me...

          Well, I finally got around to reading the article you linked and it shook up my opinion of Epic quite a bit.

          I am really curious to know why they released such a minimal client? It seems to me they'll have to almost reach feature parity with the Steam client to be competitive for consumers, and it's not like they don't have the resources to do that with time, but it feels like they may have shot themselves in the foot a bit.

          Either way, the shocking takeaway that I got from that article is that indie developers, as is the age old practice, will have to continue to struggle to survive, regardless of which client they decide to sell on first, or at all.

          3 votes
        2. [6]
          vakieh
          Link Parent
          How bad is Epic's if Steam has a better one? They've been famous for years for being godawful at that, and only the EU and later AU threatening to fuck them in the wallet has had much impact.

          a better refund process

          How bad is Epic's if Steam has a better one? They've been famous for years for being godawful at that, and only the EU and later AU threatening to fuck them in the wallet has had much impact.

          3 votes
          1. [5]
            ReapersGale
            Link Parent
            Looking at their policy on refunds it's a pretty standard 'contact us and we'll refund if purchased in last 14 days with <2hr playtime' kind of deal. I've not requested a refund from either steam...

            Looking at their policy on refunds it's a pretty standard 'contact us and we'll refund if purchased in last 14 days with <2hr playtime' kind of deal.

            I've not requested a refund from either steam or epic so I'm not sure how they compare on following through on their policy; TBH they should probably both just throw a button somewhere on the games store page for people to do this if it meets the above criteria and save themselves the bad customer experiences that come from variance in the policies application.

            Then allow refunds outside this scope to be handled on a case by case basis; would lead to more refunds but should reduce the likelihood of backlash from poorly handled requests as well as the amount of requests that have to be manually processed.

            2 votes
            1. [4]
              vakieh
              Link Parent
              This is the kicker - something can be unplayable and not merchantable and you don't find out for longer than 14 days of 2 hours of play. Thankfully, there are countries (like the one I live in)...

              if purchased in last 14 days with <2hr playtime' kind of deal

              This is the kicker - something can be unplayable and not merchantable and you don't find out for longer than 14 days of 2 hours of play. Thankfully, there are countries (like the one I live in) that understand this and legally force companies to refund when they've sold horseshit. Without that I would have been burned by Legends of Pegasus, which was released with a workingish tutorial (approx 3 hours) but with the rest of the game bugged to complete unplayability.

              2 votes
              1. [3]
                ReapersGale
                Link Parent
                In most cases 14 days or 2 hours should be plenty to figure that out though; there is always gonna be less common cases where a refund should be provided outside this which is why it would make...

                In most cases 14 days or 2 hours should be plenty to figure that out though; there is always gonna be less common cases where a refund should be provided outside this which is why it would make sense for them to automate the cases that are clear cut according to their policy.

                I'm from Australia so do enjoy the extended protection and have used it with Blizzard outside of their policies range which is similar if not the same as epics and steams.

                I'm not saying this as praise to the 14 day or 2 hour policy, I meant it more a criticism of how they currently process it which likely results in poorer outcomes for cases such as the one you outlined.

                1. [2]
                  ruspaceni
                  Link Parent
                  Also keep in mind, though, that if your game keeps crashing and whatnot then there might be times where you're debugging and the game is closed, but it's not "officially closed" and still counts...

                  Also keep in mind, though, that if your game keeps crashing and whatnot then there might be times where you're debugging and the game is closed, but it's not "officially closed" and still counts you as playing.

                  I recently had the displeasure of trying to get Black Ops 4 to work on my laptop. Took 3 days of blindly trying config files and hoping it wouldn't crash after the loading screen. Each attempt was easily 15-20 minutes of "play time" plus however long it takes for it to notice the game has crashed/process was terminated.

                  Same story for a friend with that new Just Cause (5?). It just wouldn't act predictably. He'd update the drivers and it'd last a bit longer then fail in another spot. Then he'd try some fix on a forum that everyone says worked for them, nada.

                  Are there any penalties for just saying "fuck that noise" and insta-refunding games that don't work out of the box without even trying to fix them. Or do the retailers not care about your actual reasons and just give you X amount of refunds per Y?

                  2 votes
                  1. ReapersGale
                    Link Parent
                    Australian law is that you can get a full refund/replacement/similar item if the product is not as described or faulty with varying enforcement lengths based on reasonable expectations - it...

                    Australian law is that you can get a full refund/replacement/similar item if the product is not as described or faulty with varying enforcement lengths based on reasonable expectations - it doesn't cover change of mind but depending on product/retailer they may allow it anyway as long as it's in saleable condition.

                    What I am saying the context of digital stores like those mentioned is:

                    1. They have a clear cut policy that they tend to say they will honor regardless of reason.
                    2. They have the data to automate requests within said policy but don't appear to have and instead rely on manual approvals.
                    3. Manual approval causes issues where a refund should have been applied within policy.
                    4. If they automate the the easy clear cut stuff they have more time to focus on cases outside of that but should be refunded anyway which will often be folks like us that have put effort into getting it working.
                    5. They state they may start rejected your requests if you appear to be abusing it - if your saying game doesn't run on your PC after 8 hours in game with the games average completion time being 8 hours and you do that often it's gonna stick out.

                    Whilst it may not have come off this way, I'm saying vakieh should get a refund for 'Legends of Pegasus', your friend should get a refund for 'Just Cause' and you should be able to get a refund for 'Black Ops 4' (I did for similar and additional reasons with 7 hours in game, though I believe Blizzard may actually have implemented what I'm suggesting the others do or at least processes to minimize fuckups or be more reasonable with acceptable reasons outside the starting scope).

                    My comments aren't to say <2 hours is the right starting policy - maybe it is, maybe it isn't - it's to say that they all seem to have the same policy, that some of them are shit at following it and how they could possibly improve the experience for the end user whether it falls in or out of said starting scope.

                    1 vote
      2. [3]
        cain
        Link Parent
        They will all remain on uPlay, launching Division 1 on Steam still launched through uPlay. Moving to Epic will likely just cut out the middle man for most people (including me) and will just...

        They will all remain on uPlay, launching Division 1 on Steam still launched through uPlay. Moving to Epic will likely just cut out the middle man for most people (including me) and will just purchase and run it with only uPlay.

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          I actually didn't know that you could buy all of those titles on Uplay itself. I actually thought most titles, like AC Odyssey or Origins, were only sold on Steam but launched through Uplay,...

          I actually didn't know that you could buy all of those titles on Uplay itself. I actually thought most titles, like AC Odyssey or Origins, were only sold on Steam but launched through Uplay, which, in retrospect, was kind of a silly assumption. Either way, TIL.

          Yeah, it's pretty rare that I buy Ubisoft games, but if they're pulling their titles from Steam and putting them on Epic's store, whilst also selling them directly on Uplay, I'll probably just buy them off of Uplay.

          4 votes
          1. ReapersGale
            Link Parent
            Further to that uPlay lets you 'trade in' their achievement points for a 20% discount on purchases; it's probably baked somewhat into their pricing/not having to give steam/etc a cut but it's...

            Further to that uPlay lets you 'trade in' their achievement points for a 20% discount on purchases; it's probably baked somewhat into their pricing/not having to give steam/etc a cut but it's pretty decent when something you're after is on sale and can knock off a further 20% off the sale price.

            Edit: for details on such:
            https://support.ubi.com/en-GB/Faqs/000025124/Getting-a-Ubisoft-Store-discount

            3 votes