Oof. I have previously described myself here on Tildes as culturally displaced. I know I'm profoundly lonely; To make an equivalence with the author's story, my brain is always in Italy, thanks to...
Oof. I have previously described myself here on Tildes as culturally displaced. I know I'm profoundly lonely; To make an equivalence with the author's story, my brain is always in Italy, thanks to the wonderfully isolating magic of the Internet. I know my family probably loves me, but I've noticed how particularly lonely I feel when I'm with them. They don't give a damn about anything I care about, after all.
None of that sounds like a loving, healthy relationship to me. You shouldn't have to guess or assume that they love you. That's not what love is. We may not share the interest of those who we...
I know my family probably loves me, but I've noticed how particularly lonely I feel when I'm with them. They don't give a damn about anything I care about, after all.
None of that sounds like a loving, healthy relationship to me. You shouldn't have to guess or assume that they love you. That's not what love is. We may not share the interest of those who we love, but we always support their interests. I enjoy weightlifting, and video games. My wife doesn't do either of those things, but that's okay because she doesn't do a single thing to dissuade me from doing them. In fact, she supports me taking time to do them. Just like I support her photography hobby, and any time she needs someone to hold a light thrower, if I can be there I will be there.
So I don't think you're so much culturally displaced, so much as I a relationship that sounds unhealthy.
I see what you mean, and certainly things could be better, but I do not have a partner or children and the family I do have does support me in certain ways. Much as with the author of the article,...
I see what you mean, and certainly things could be better, but I do not have a partner or children and the family I do have does support me in certain ways. Much as with the author of the article, though, I can't talk to the people around me about the things that interest me, and it's not reasonable to expect them to share those interests - they have their own. But this is still isolating. If I want to hang out with anyone I know, I have to accept that I will only be engaging in small talk or that I'll be an observer to conversations about subjects they care about, but which I don't. Sometimes people will politely listen to me for a minute or so before changing the subject or wandering off.
Online friends from different timezones, even if they don't share these interests, are more likely to take an interest and to acknowledge (once again, borrowing from the article) my uniqueness. I proactively make an effort to take an interest in theirs, too. I guess family takes each other for granted? I feel like I know a lot of people online who remember the things I've said and who respect my opinions.
But the problem with online acquaintances is that you can never quite tell how important the friendship is to them. Sometimes people just drop off the face of the earth, not because anything bad happened to them - they just wander off without a word and you never speak to them again, or for several years.
I could probably be happier if I let go of my hobbies, dropped my projects, stopped taking an interest in a bunch of things and tried to conform to what's interesting to more "offline" (social networks aside) people, but I find the notion revolting. I'd be making myself less productive, less interesting, probably more intellectually limited, more intolerant, more backwards. I don't want to be a worse version of myself.
I know my family probably loves me, but I've noticed how particularly lonely I feel when I'm with them. They don't give a damn about anything I care about, after all.
I feel like the psychoanalytic theories of Lacan are missing as a way to understand loneliness. In which the fulfillment of desire - trough the object of desire, in this case ‘somebody who...
Exemplary
In cases like this, the only way to recognise your unmet needs or desires is to notice that your loneliness has started to lift once those needs and desires begin to be met by another.
I feel like the psychoanalytic theories of Lacan are missing as a way to understand loneliness. In which the fulfillment of desire - trough the object of desire, in this case ‘somebody who alleviates loneliness’ -, doesn’t change the incompleteness every subject feels. You could write a whole new article on these ideas I’d bet.
To stay within (French) philosophical themes, I’d suggest to flip the script with regard to looking at loneliness. Firstly, the article is very much focused on the loneliness the author experiences (or rather alienation of their original peer group), and what their needs and desires are, and how Others should or could meet them to alleviate loneliness. It’s written down a bit more nuanced by the author, but this seems to be one of the messages I could distill.
I mentioned flipping the script, because instead of putting the individual subject first, French philosopher Levinas puts an important focus on the Other. I see possible ‘solutions’ for loneliness in his ideas.
While a bit difficult to explain - and understand -, Levinas thought that nothing makes sense, if not in relation to the Other (or object, or someone other than subject/I). He even sees a moral obligation to answer to the need of the Other, whenever the subject looks at the defenseless face of the Other. Levinas calls the Other infinite, that there is a divine quality to the Other.
For me, the above simply means that interactions (that happen face to face), carry a spiritual meaning of some sort. Not in the religious or supernatural sense. Because besides our own interaction with Others, is there anything higher or more precious to achieve in this world? It means to me that saying ‘hi’ to a stranger is answering to a need of the Other. It means that providing care is answering to needs of the Other. It means doing no harm is answering to needs of the Other. It means in a split moment forgetting to be (a subject), but living through the Other.
Surely, it’s not something I am aware of everyday, but this article reminded me of what makes me feel lonely. It makes me feel lonely to only do things for me, to only perceive my own subjective reality. To hope that Others fill my needs.
I don’t propose living purely prosocially or altruisticly, but I hope to shake up some thinking. Because honestly, do we as humans thrive by all focussing on ourselves and hoping that we as an individual will thrive, or are we not born as defenseless creatures that needs care from Others to thrive?
Most of the time, I am pretty content in the loneliness I feel because I've been living with it for as long as I can remember. I think generally mine is an existential loneliness based on a deep...
Most of the time, I am pretty content in the loneliness I feel because I've been living with it for as long as I can remember. I think generally mine is an existential loneliness based on a deep disappointment with American society, but feeling powerless to do anything about it or leave it because everything and everybody I love is here.
For a very long time I wanted to write novels. I studied writing. I actually did write professionally for years, albeit throwaway pulp fiction to pay the bills. I wanted to write literary fiction. However, I've come to the conclusion that it was just a misplaced dream. I went to a fancy MFA program years ago in NYC and I got to see how the sausage was made. The only writers I knew who got book deals came from wealth. Even when you do sell a novel, nobody really cares because so few people actually read literary fiction. And because nobody reads it, you earn no money anyway. I didn't envy any of my teachers in that program, "successful" people in the literary fiction world. It's a scene of navel-gazers and phonies. It has this aura of importance, but when I look at it all from a high-level... it's just not important at all.
And even if I were to write a real book, instead of all the garbage I've put out, I just feel... why bother trying to speak to a society that I've been exasperated with for so long? In a way, I don't care what happens anymore. And who cares what another privileged white guy has to say anyway? I've got nothing unique to communicate to this world. The gatekeepers understandably just want to publish what will make them money, and it's not me.
What's really been on my mind recently in regards to loneliness has stemmed from my Dad being sick. He is in a spot he's completely responsible for, and now he's refusing treatment, being obstinate, egotistically thinking he knows better than professionals. It's brought up a feeling I've had before but solidified it further: there are no men in my life that I look up to. There never has been. I've never had a mentor, nobody who has taken a real interest in me and tried to actually help. The teachers I had as advisors throughout my schooling were mentors in name only; they had an obligation. When that obligation was over, so was the relationship. I've had some all right bosses, but nobody I would ever try to emulate. I don't feel like there is a single older accomplished man in my past or present that I could just call up and ask the hard questions to. Now that's fucking loneliness.
I'm a Brit, so I get what you're saying here in a big way. Cultural alienation is bizarre. I'm exhausted with "You've got priviledge" crowd in the city I live in. I do now... but I've had to fight...
Most of the time, I am pretty content in the loneliness I feel because I've been living with it for as long as I can remember. I think generally mine is an existential loneliness based on a deep disappointment with American society, but feeling powerless to do anything about it or leave it because everything and everybody I love is here.
I'm a Brit, so I get what you're saying here in a big way. Cultural alienation is bizarre.
I don't care what happens anymore. And who cares what another privileged white guy has to say anyway? I've got nothing unique to communicate to this world.
I'm exhausted with "You've got priviledge" crowd in the city I live in. I do now... but I've had to fight for EVERYTHING I've got in my life. Now that I've got it, I'm not permitted to enjoy it, apparently. Doesn't mean I won't support and care for folks of any race, religion, colour or creed. Some of the things fundamentally may not affect me, but I can support and understand it...
I'm a white dude with ADHD, believe me when I say I get this. I write blog posts and often think of that, then think "Fuck it... it'll help someone, somewhere, fuck what negative things people think about that"
Would writing the book help you in any way? Even if you disregarded the money aspect?
What's really been on my mind recently in regards to loneliness has stemmed from my Dad being sick. He is in a spot he's completely responsible for, and now he's refusing treatment, being obstinate, egotistically thinking he knows better than professionals. It's brought up a feeling I've had before but solidified it further: there are no men in my life that I look up to. There never has been. I've never had a mentor, nobody who has taken a real interest in me and tried to actually help. The teachers I had as advisors throughout my schooling were mentors in name only; they had an obligation. When that obligation was over, so was the relationship. I've had some all right bosses, but nobody I would ever try to emulate. I don't feel like there is a single older accomplished man in my past or present that I could just call up and ask the hard questions to. Now that's fucking loneliness.
If that ain't the crux of a matter where it comes to men's issues in society right now, I don't know what it is. I'm sorry you're in that situation mate, I am. It's a tough one to crack, simply because you almost have to sell yourself so others cna have that.
I've never once had a good male role model in my life. My father, uncle and grandfather (on both sides) are xenophobic bigots who play the victim card daily. I remember my male teachers laughing at my failure in exams and that left me with a strong "fuck the system" and even the officers I worked with in the armed forces were jackasses who would 'tough love' it out, rather than mentor and care. Civvie life you've got assclowns and narcs who are just in it for themselves and no-one else... it's tough.
I tell people that "Nick Offerman teaches you more about being a good dude than most fathers do" and I genuinely believe that. Not Ron Swanson, NIck Offerman. Which is just a sorry, sad state of affairs for guys around the world.
Nick Offerman does seem like a truly righteous dude who embodies all sides of masculinity in a healthy and self-actualizing way. It's a shame that many people latch onto the comedic libertarian...
Nick Offerman does seem like a truly righteous dude who embodies all sides of masculinity in a healthy and self-actualizing way. It's a shame that many people latch onto the comedic libertarian character he played and twist it into something it wasn't. Ron Swanson is actually a pretty good guy, too, but his foibles are meant to demonstrate the imperfections of the man. But with any public figure, you never can be sure what's reality and what's just PR. I subscribe to a "never meet your idols" way of life, because you just never know who these people truly are.
I've been thinking lately about Eric Barone. He created Stardew Valley, if you're unaware, a truly magical game that he spent years creating a solo developer. He's a true auteur. He did everything, from the programming to the design and even the music, which is just so memorable and spectacular. I wish I had the drive and gumption at 24 that he did to create something so wonderful and worthwhile. Still to this day he's working on expansions for it to breathe further depth into the already very deep world he made, and like previous updates it will be free to everyone who already owns the game. He's become wealthy from his work and he just keeps giving. He's inspiring in me the urge to attempt something similar.
But at the same time, I'm middle aged now. It's easier in your 20s to struggle to build something great, and far harder as you get older to take big risks. I've already taken that risk with my previous writing career, and although I did see some relative success, I ultimately view it as a failure for many reasons. I'm not mad or sad about it, and I don't internalize the failure as something intrinsic to my being. The mountain in front of me, though, just looks so high.
When I speak of privilege and "who wants to hear what I have to say," what I mean by that is that, yeah, white men have had the predominant voice for most of human history and now our culture is, rightly so, giving others a voice. So where does that leave me? I'm not "the man," but it would still be very difficult for me to try to sell a book to a publisher when there are other voices that probably deserve to be heard over me. If I wrote the book I truly wanted to write, it would probably be a downer anyway. In this world of day-to-day downers, would people really want to read yet another treatise about how everything sucks? And the reality of a artist's life is poverty. I just can't do that any longer.
I don't even think I've got the book in me any longer. I have lived a privileged life, ultimately. And now, with a full-time job again, a midlife career shift, and other responsibilities on my plate, I don't even think I have the attention span to sit down and write anymore. I'm just permanently exhausted. I'm also very private, and in our modern society, consumers want their creators to be personalities as well. It's just not my scene.
It sucks working so hard for a system that hates me. But what else can I do? I'm grateful I'm also very technically inclined, because otherwise I would be truly lost. At least I can have some nice things as I stumble through this existence I didn't ask for. But I am lost and lonely, lacking the kind of guidance that would have been really helpful for someone like me who has a lot of talents, skills, and intelligence. Ironically, I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, which is a way to explain this hard right shift with so many young men who've never be blessed with a true mentor in their lives. This orthodox and unrelenting capitalism is tearing us all apart.
Have you heard Nick's track, "I'm not Ron Swanson!" at all? Give it a listen, it's wonderfully funny. He played it live when I saw him earlier this year. He does seem like a truly top dude. Got...
Nick Offerman does seem like a truly righteous dude who embodies all sides of masculinity in a healthy and self-actualizing way. It's a shame that many people latch onto the comedic libertarian character he played and twist it into something it wasn't. Ron Swanson is actually a pretty good guy, too, but his foibles are meant to demonstrate the imperfections of the man. But with any public figure, you never can be sure what's reality and what's just PR. I subscribe to a "never meet your idols" way of life, because you just never know who these people truly are.
Have you heard Nick's track, "I'm not Ron Swanson!" at all? Give it a listen, it's wonderfully funny. He played it live when I saw him earlier this year.
He does seem like a truly top dude. Got his own date with destiny around everything going on, but he just seems like a good person somewhere down the line. His books extolling personal accountability (Paddle your own canoe) and the Outdoorsie one are pretty damn good books. They both sum up Ron's words when he becomes superintendent at the Pawnee Park along the lines of "Be good, Talk straight and we'll get along well" and it's so damn refreshing.
I've been thinking lately about Eric Barone. He created Stardew Valley, if you're unaware, a truly magical game that he spent years creating a solo developer. He's a true auteur. He did everything, from the programming to the design and even the music, which is just so memorable and spectacular. I wish I had the drive and gumption at 24 that he did to create something so wonderful and worthwhile. Still to this day he's working on expansions for it to breathe further depth into the already very deep world he made, and like previous updates it will be free to everyone who already owns the game. He's become wealthy from his work and he just keeps giving. He's inspiring in me the urge to attempt something similar.
Stardew nearly stole my soul earlier this year. It's on my Steam deck and I avoid using it as it has a repeatitive system that makes me want to move into the Fens in Cambridgeshire and start a massive farm!
But at the same time, I'm middle aged now. It's easier in your 20s to struggle to build something great, and far harder as you get older to take big risks. I've already taken that risk with my previous writing career, and although I did see some relative success, I ultimately view it as a failure for many reasons. I'm not mad or sad about it, and I don't internalize the failure as something intrinsic to my being. The mountain in front of me, though, just looks so high.
I'm 35. I've recently started blogging about neurodiversity. I've also got ideas for a book around "How the hell to be a good dude in an era of Tate's, Trumps and Twats" - It's basically a primer on how to be a decent guy to yourself, how to be a decent guy to those romatnically in your life, friends, family and other odds and sods. So much media for men is dominated by 'aggression', 'posturing' or 'broicism' that I need to write something that isn't that.
Fair about the failure side dude, I know what you mean with it if I'm honest. Business unfinished, but to quote Amos Burton? "Everyone leaves unfinished business, that's what dying is."
When I speak of privilege and "who wants to hear what I have to say," what I mean by that is that, yeah, white men have had the predominant voice for most of human history and now our culture is, rightly so, giving others a voice. So where does that leave me? I'm not "the man," but it would still be very difficult for me to try to sell a book to a publisher when there are other voices that probably deserve to be heard over me. If I wrote the book I truly wanted to write, it would probably be a downer anyway. In this world of day-to-day downers, would people really want to read yet another treatise about how everything sucks? And the reality of a artist's life is poverty. I just can't do that any longer.
You'd be surprised how many people are crying out to hear from their people as well mate. Again, I'm a white guy, feminist and all round 'good dude' as much as I can be. But I'm from a marginalised and derided background (Irish family), I've got ADHD and I biblically fucked my schooling up... and yet? I've done really well for myself. Half the issue with the rise of morons like Tate is that we don't have other white guys to look upto. Even if the words you say are "These people fucking suck!" it doesn't matter if you're speaking to those and trying to highlight or raise awareness for your own experiences and that of others.
As for the 'others more deserving', something a therapist hears is "I think others deserve this spot more than me" and it just isn't true. There's space for all of us and we should support each and everyone to ensure their voice is heard with ours (if we can harness said privilidge).
I don't even think I've got the book in me any longer. I have lived a privileged life, ultimately. And now, with a full-time job again, a midlife career shift, and other responsibilities on my plate, I don't even think I have the attention span to sit down and write anymore. I'm just permanently exhausted. I'm also very private, and in our modern society, consumers want their creators to be personalities as well. It's just not my scene.
I hear that. I love writing, but sometimes I just want to decompress after busy days and weeks. It feels like being idealistic is great, but actually getting out and living can be more important. I wonder if there's a bit of a lesson for both of us here? Stop moaning, Start doing. Ha.
It sucks working so hard for a system that hates me. But what else can I do? I'm grateful I'm also very technically inclined, because otherwise I would be truly lost. At least I can have some nice things as I stumble through this existence I didn't ask for.
Stop saying my words. It's weird.
But I am lost and lonely, lacking the kind of guidance that would have been really helpful for someone like me who has a lot of talents, skills, and intelligence. Ironically, I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, which is a way to explain this hard right shift with so many young men who've never be blessed with a true mentor in their lives. This orthodox and unrelenting capitalism is tearing us all apart.
Maybe it is our respoinsibility to be the good dudes we've basically said to each other here? Our voices can still be heard with friends, family and those people assosicated with. I've had it our with a son of a friend who spouted some Tate-esque line and had THAT conversation very quickly. That's doing just as much as writing a treatsie on why Tate is an egg-shaped loser.
Thank you. As an upside to all this, my partner and I just had a conversation about the game we would like to create together, and it has her very excited because she feels all of this too....
Thank you. As an upside to all this, my partner and I just had a conversation about the game we would like to create together, and it has her very excited because she feels all of this too. Together we have the skills that could make this happen. It's hard to find meaning in life when you don't subscribe to religion or have children, so maybe this is our thing. If anything, it's something to work on together and give us something to look forward to instead of jobs.
Die hard humanist and childfree guy, I hear you mate. Work seems to fill the void for so many people and it gets exhausting. For me, I just remember that life is just supposed to be lived, meaning...
It's hard to find meaning in life when you don't subscribe to religion or have children, so maybe this is our thing.
Die hard humanist and childfree guy, I hear you mate.
Work seems to fill the void for so many people and it gets exhausting.
For me, I just remember that life is just supposed to be lived, meaning is something forced on you by society.
As an avid reader and sometimes poet, your comment makes me sad. Some of my favorite books bridge the gap between literary and popular. I think of the author of Confederacy of Dunces whose book...
As an avid reader and sometimes poet, your comment makes me sad. Some of my favorite books bridge the gap between literary and popular. I think of the author of Confederacy of Dunces whose book was discovered after he passed.
The book subreddits, r/suggestmeabook and others, put me in touch with others who love to read and through their suggestions I have found books I loved.
I think Toole is a perfect example of someone who wrote something great, but was completely stifled by gatekeepers. If I remember the lore, the book was only released because after his death his...
I think Toole is a perfect example of someone who wrote something great, but was completely stifled by gatekeepers. If I remember the lore, the book was only released because after his death his mother worked extremely hard to get it published. Quality isn't really something the greater publishing industry really cares about. It's part of the equation, of course, but there are many other factors at play, making it a tedious game to play if you don't have the time or energy or connections, which is where money comes in. If you come from money, it's much easier to put in all the effort required because you're not also working to pay the bills.
I think it's analogous to Hollywood. So many stars of today are only there because they come from Hollywood. Bryce Dallas Howard, for example, has an essay for young Hollywood hopefuls about how to make it in the industry. I didn't read it, but I assume it's one sentence that says, "Be born to Ron Howard, who was born to Rance and Jean Howard."
Art just isn't a meritocracy. It's a lie of our society that the cream rises to the top. I haven't given up on writing because I hate writing. It's more because it takes Herculean effort to make it and I've got bills to pay. When it comes to literature in specific, the truth is that it's an extremely small niche and even the success stories aren't earning any money. They have to teach, work other jobs, or rely on their trust fund to keep them afloat. Even books that win the National Book Award only sell a few thousand copies. It's kind of just a circle jerk.
Something that used to make me smile when I was writing and struggling was looking at my teachers' books on Amazon, seeing my books ranked so much higher than theirs, and knowing that I actually had readers and was making money. A little petty, but it made me feel a modicum of success.
I really enjoyed this article. I'm a guy who's been suffering from 'loneliness' since my Brother passed around for years ago. But articulating that feeling hasn't been easy. I have a loving wife,...
I really enjoyed this article.
I'm a guy who's been suffering from 'loneliness' since my Brother passed around for years ago. But articulating that feeling hasn't been easy. I have a loving wife, a circle of mates who I see fairly often, I attend social gatherings and yet I am supremely lonely! Why?
This article alludes to some really quite interesting parts of the 'need' spectrum, one of which it's got me thinking around how I am percieved and need to be percieved.
Lonelines sucks, we've seen the threads on here, Reddit and elsewhere about it. I wish there was more time for us all to sip coffee, talk of intellectual things and shittalk... but there just isn't.
I'm sorry for your loss and my analysis here: have you looked into any groups for familial/sibling loss? It seems that perhaps you might be experiencing this loneliness due to the perception that...
I'm sorry for your loss and my analysis here: have you looked into any groups for familial/sibling loss? It seems that perhaps you might be experiencing this loneliness due to the perception that no one can really understand your grief at having lost your brother. Perhaps with a group, as such, you can make even a single connection with someone who shares similar interests and has experienced what you have.
That's what I got from this article and it's something I definitely felt. I had a friend drifting away a few years ago because he was overworked and I was very angry about it, because he was the only person I could talk to intellectually about certain subjects. I started to feel lonely when I wanted to discuss these things and my wife and my friends couldn't really comprehend or offer analysis on the level that I needed.
I appreciate the kind words buddy. It's not really a feeling of grief I dwell on. For me, it's summed up perfectly in the article around the loss of possibility. My BFAM was so much and more, and...
I'm sorry for your loss and my analysis here: have you looked into any groups for familial/sibling loss? It seems that perhaps you might be experiencing this loneliness due to the perception that no one can really understand your grief at having lost your brother. Perhaps with a group, as such, you can make even a single connection with someone who shares similar interests and has experienced what you have.
I appreciate the kind words buddy. It's not really a feeling of grief I dwell on. For me, it's summed up perfectly in the article around the loss of possibility. My BFAM was so much and more, and I've doine therapy around it adn I'm in a decent place. But it has left me terribly lonely sometimes where people don't 'get' why I am. That's okay, I deal with it in a multitude of ways.
That's what I got from this article and it's something I definitely felt. I had a friend drifting away a few years ago because he was overworked and I was very angry about it, because he was the only person I could talk to intellectually about certain subjects. I started to feel lonely when I wanted to discuss these things and my wife and my friends couldn't really comprehend or offer analysis on the level that I needed.
You got it in one. After my BFAM passed, a close friend also just chose to ghost me out of their life and it left me quite bereft. It's nearly five years ago and it's very difficult to get past, let alone feel anything towards that.
There's been some big changes in life for me, but sometimes those around me can't offer the insights or analysis I may need. It's an interesting dynamic.
I think being truly "seen" and fundamentally understood in relationships like the one with your brother are incredible blessings but the other side of that is the feeling of being bereft of that...
I think being truly "seen" and fundamentally understood in relationships like the one with your brother are incredible blessings but the other side of that is the feeling of being bereft of that and truly understanding how different most other relationships are. Your brother held a piece of who you are inside of him and showed it to you. It's terribly hard and I'm sorry. Other people who will click with you do exist out there, the trouble is we never know how long it will be until we encounter them again. It can feel like being unable to breathe. I dread losing my sister because, while Walt Whitman said he contains multitudes of himselves, people like her and your brother also contain and reflect us.
Spot. The fuck. On. It has left me very confused as to how people actually get on. I had one other mate who just walked away and I wrote in my journal earlier about their lack of presence is...
I think being truly "seen" and fundamentally understood in relationships like the one with your brother are incredible blessings but the other side of that is the feeling of being bereft of that and truly understanding how different most other relationships are.
Spot. The fuck. On.
It has left me very confused as to how people actually get on. I had one other mate who just walked away and I wrote in my journal earlier about their lack of presence is interesting when I associate that they've been the two best mates I've ever had in existence. Everyone else is just kind of... there. But those two absolutely got me as a person.
Your brother held a piece of who you are inside of him and showed it to you. It's terribly hard and I'm sorry. Other people who will click with you do exist out there, the trouble is we never know how long it will be until we encounter them again. It can feel like being unable to breathe. I dread losing my sister because, while Walt Whitman said he contains multitudes of himselves, people like her and your brother also contain and reflect us.
I quote like that phrase, it's nice to think of what he and I strived for as people. I hope the day for your sister is a LONG time away my dude.
I enjoyed it too, but I wished they addressed the difficulty for introverts in making these kinds of friends. I feel loved and valued by my family, valued by my coworkers for being good at my job,...
I enjoyed it too, but I wished they addressed the difficulty for introverts in making these kinds of friends. I feel loved and valued by my family, valued by my coworkers for being good at my job, but I don’t have non-family friends who choose to spend time with me just bc they want to. If I lost my family and my job (like when my kids have their own lives, I retire, and my other family members pass, I’ll be totally at a loss for what to do with my time besides my hobbies (which are solitary).
Oof. I have previously described myself here on Tildes as culturally displaced. I know I'm profoundly lonely; To make an equivalence with the author's story, my brain is always in Italy, thanks to the wonderfully isolating magic of the Internet. I know my family probably loves me, but I've noticed how particularly lonely I feel when I'm with them. They don't give a damn about anything I care about, after all.
None of that sounds like a loving, healthy relationship to me. You shouldn't have to guess or assume that they love you. That's not what love is. We may not share the interest of those who we love, but we always support their interests. I enjoy weightlifting, and video games. My wife doesn't do either of those things, but that's okay because she doesn't do a single thing to dissuade me from doing them. In fact, she supports me taking time to do them. Just like I support her photography hobby, and any time she needs someone to hold a light thrower, if I can be there I will be there.
So I don't think you're so much culturally displaced, so much as I a relationship that sounds unhealthy.
I see what you mean, and certainly things could be better, but I do not have a partner or children and the family I do have does support me in certain ways. Much as with the author of the article, though, I can't talk to the people around me about the things that interest me, and it's not reasonable to expect them to share those interests - they have their own. But this is still isolating. If I want to hang out with anyone I know, I have to accept that I will only be engaging in small talk or that I'll be an observer to conversations about subjects they care about, but which I don't. Sometimes people will politely listen to me for a minute or so before changing the subject or wandering off.
Online friends from different timezones, even if they don't share these interests, are more likely to take an interest and to acknowledge (once again, borrowing from the article) my uniqueness. I proactively make an effort to take an interest in theirs, too. I guess family takes each other for granted? I feel like I know a lot of people online who remember the things I've said and who respect my opinions.
But the problem with online acquaintances is that you can never quite tell how important the friendship is to them. Sometimes people just drop off the face of the earth, not because anything bad happened to them - they just wander off without a word and you never speak to them again, or for several years.
I could probably be happier if I let go of my hobbies, dropped my projects, stopped taking an interest in a bunch of things and tried to conform to what's interesting to more "offline" (social networks aside) people, but I find the notion revolting. I'd be making myself less productive, less interesting, probably more intellectually limited, more intolerant, more backwards. I don't want to be a worse version of myself.
Bizarre isn't it?
I feel like the psychoanalytic theories of Lacan are missing as a way to understand loneliness. In which the fulfillment of desire - trough the object of desire, in this case ‘somebody who alleviates loneliness’ -, doesn’t change the incompleteness every subject feels. You could write a whole new article on these ideas I’d bet.
To stay within (French) philosophical themes, I’d suggest to flip the script with regard to looking at loneliness. Firstly, the article is very much focused on the loneliness the author experiences (or rather alienation of their original peer group), and what their needs and desires are, and how Others should or could meet them to alleviate loneliness. It’s written down a bit more nuanced by the author, but this seems to be one of the messages I could distill.
I mentioned flipping the script, because instead of putting the individual subject first, French philosopher Levinas puts an important focus on the Other. I see possible ‘solutions’ for loneliness in his ideas.
While a bit difficult to explain - and understand -, Levinas thought that nothing makes sense, if not in relation to the Other (or object, or someone other than subject/I). He even sees a moral obligation to answer to the need of the Other, whenever the subject looks at the defenseless face of the Other. Levinas calls the Other infinite, that there is a divine quality to the Other.
For me, the above simply means that interactions (that happen face to face), carry a spiritual meaning of some sort. Not in the religious or supernatural sense. Because besides our own interaction with Others, is there anything higher or more precious to achieve in this world? It means to me that saying ‘hi’ to a stranger is answering to a need of the Other. It means that providing care is answering to needs of the Other. It means doing no harm is answering to needs of the Other. It means in a split moment forgetting to be (a subject), but living through the Other.
Surely, it’s not something I am aware of everyday, but this article reminded me of what makes me feel lonely. It makes me feel lonely to only do things for me, to only perceive my own subjective reality. To hope that Others fill my needs.
I don’t propose living purely prosocially or altruisticly, but I hope to shake up some thinking. Because honestly, do we as humans thrive by all focussing on ourselves and hoping that we as an individual will thrive, or are we not born as defenseless creatures that needs care from Others to thrive?
Most of the time, I am pretty content in the loneliness I feel because I've been living with it for as long as I can remember. I think generally mine is an existential loneliness based on a deep disappointment with American society, but feeling powerless to do anything about it or leave it because everything and everybody I love is here.
For a very long time I wanted to write novels. I studied writing. I actually did write professionally for years, albeit throwaway pulp fiction to pay the bills. I wanted to write literary fiction. However, I've come to the conclusion that it was just a misplaced dream. I went to a fancy MFA program years ago in NYC and I got to see how the sausage was made. The only writers I knew who got book deals came from wealth. Even when you do sell a novel, nobody really cares because so few people actually read literary fiction. And because nobody reads it, you earn no money anyway. I didn't envy any of my teachers in that program, "successful" people in the literary fiction world. It's a scene of navel-gazers and phonies. It has this aura of importance, but when I look at it all from a high-level... it's just not important at all.
And even if I were to write a real book, instead of all the garbage I've put out, I just feel... why bother trying to speak to a society that I've been exasperated with for so long? In a way, I don't care what happens anymore. And who cares what another privileged white guy has to say anyway? I've got nothing unique to communicate to this world. The gatekeepers understandably just want to publish what will make them money, and it's not me.
What's really been on my mind recently in regards to loneliness has stemmed from my Dad being sick. He is in a spot he's completely responsible for, and now he's refusing treatment, being obstinate, egotistically thinking he knows better than professionals. It's brought up a feeling I've had before but solidified it further: there are no men in my life that I look up to. There never has been. I've never had a mentor, nobody who has taken a real interest in me and tried to actually help. The teachers I had as advisors throughout my schooling were mentors in name only; they had an obligation. When that obligation was over, so was the relationship. I've had some all right bosses, but nobody I would ever try to emulate. I don't feel like there is a single older accomplished man in my past or present that I could just call up and ask the hard questions to. Now that's fucking loneliness.
I'm a Brit, so I get what you're saying here in a big way. Cultural alienation is bizarre.
I'm exhausted with "You've got priviledge" crowd in the city I live in. I do now... but I've had to fight for EVERYTHING I've got in my life. Now that I've got it, I'm not permitted to enjoy it, apparently. Doesn't mean I won't support and care for folks of any race, religion, colour or creed. Some of the things fundamentally may not affect me, but I can support and understand it...
I'm a white dude with ADHD, believe me when I say I get this. I write blog posts and often think of that, then think "Fuck it... it'll help someone, somewhere, fuck what negative things people think about that"
Would writing the book help you in any way? Even if you disregarded the money aspect?
If that ain't the crux of a matter where it comes to men's issues in society right now, I don't know what it is. I'm sorry you're in that situation mate, I am. It's a tough one to crack, simply because you almost have to sell yourself so others cna have that.
I've never once had a good male role model in my life. My father, uncle and grandfather (on both sides) are xenophobic bigots who play the victim card daily. I remember my male teachers laughing at my failure in exams and that left me with a strong "fuck the system" and even the officers I worked with in the armed forces were jackasses who would 'tough love' it out, rather than mentor and care. Civvie life you've got assclowns and narcs who are just in it for themselves and no-one else... it's tough.
I tell people that "Nick Offerman teaches you more about being a good dude than most fathers do" and I genuinely believe that. Not Ron Swanson, NIck Offerman. Which is just a sorry, sad state of affairs for guys around the world.
Nick Offerman does seem like a truly righteous dude who embodies all sides of masculinity in a healthy and self-actualizing way. It's a shame that many people latch onto the comedic libertarian character he played and twist it into something it wasn't. Ron Swanson is actually a pretty good guy, too, but his foibles are meant to demonstrate the imperfections of the man. But with any public figure, you never can be sure what's reality and what's just PR. I subscribe to a "never meet your idols" way of life, because you just never know who these people truly are.
I've been thinking lately about Eric Barone. He created Stardew Valley, if you're unaware, a truly magical game that he spent years creating a solo developer. He's a true auteur. He did everything, from the programming to the design and even the music, which is just so memorable and spectacular. I wish I had the drive and gumption at 24 that he did to create something so wonderful and worthwhile. Still to this day he's working on expansions for it to breathe further depth into the already very deep world he made, and like previous updates it will be free to everyone who already owns the game. He's become wealthy from his work and he just keeps giving. He's inspiring in me the urge to attempt something similar.
But at the same time, I'm middle aged now. It's easier in your 20s to struggle to build something great, and far harder as you get older to take big risks. I've already taken that risk with my previous writing career, and although I did see some relative success, I ultimately view it as a failure for many reasons. I'm not mad or sad about it, and I don't internalize the failure as something intrinsic to my being. The mountain in front of me, though, just looks so high.
When I speak of privilege and "who wants to hear what I have to say," what I mean by that is that, yeah, white men have had the predominant voice for most of human history and now our culture is, rightly so, giving others a voice. So where does that leave me? I'm not "the man," but it would still be very difficult for me to try to sell a book to a publisher when there are other voices that probably deserve to be heard over me. If I wrote the book I truly wanted to write, it would probably be a downer anyway. In this world of day-to-day downers, would people really want to read yet another treatise about how everything sucks? And the reality of a artist's life is poverty. I just can't do that any longer.
I don't even think I've got the book in me any longer. I have lived a privileged life, ultimately. And now, with a full-time job again, a midlife career shift, and other responsibilities on my plate, I don't even think I have the attention span to sit down and write anymore. I'm just permanently exhausted. I'm also very private, and in our modern society, consumers want their creators to be personalities as well. It's just not my scene.
It sucks working so hard for a system that hates me. But what else can I do? I'm grateful I'm also very technically inclined, because otherwise I would be truly lost. At least I can have some nice things as I stumble through this existence I didn't ask for. But I am lost and lonely, lacking the kind of guidance that would have been really helpful for someone like me who has a lot of talents, skills, and intelligence. Ironically, I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, which is a way to explain this hard right shift with so many young men who've never be blessed with a true mentor in their lives. This orthodox and unrelenting capitalism is tearing us all apart.
Have you heard Nick's track, "I'm not Ron Swanson!" at all? Give it a listen, it's wonderfully funny. He played it live when I saw him earlier this year.
He does seem like a truly top dude. Got his own date with destiny around everything going on, but he just seems like a good person somewhere down the line. His books extolling personal accountability (Paddle your own canoe) and the Outdoorsie one are pretty damn good books. They both sum up Ron's words when he becomes superintendent at the Pawnee Park along the lines of "Be good, Talk straight and we'll get along well" and it's so damn refreshing.
Stardew nearly stole my soul earlier this year. It's on my Steam deck and I avoid using it as it has a repeatitive system that makes me want to move into the Fens in Cambridgeshire and start a massive farm!
I'm 35. I've recently started blogging about neurodiversity. I've also got ideas for a book around "How the hell to be a good dude in an era of Tate's, Trumps and Twats" - It's basically a primer on how to be a decent guy to yourself, how to be a decent guy to those romatnically in your life, friends, family and other odds and sods. So much media for men is dominated by 'aggression', 'posturing' or 'broicism' that I need to write something that isn't that.
Fair about the failure side dude, I know what you mean with it if I'm honest. Business unfinished, but to quote Amos Burton? "Everyone leaves unfinished business, that's what dying is."
You'd be surprised how many people are crying out to hear from their people as well mate. Again, I'm a white guy, feminist and all round 'good dude' as much as I can be. But I'm from a marginalised and derided background (Irish family), I've got ADHD and I biblically fucked my schooling up... and yet? I've done really well for myself. Half the issue with the rise of morons like Tate is that we don't have other white guys to look upto. Even if the words you say are "These people fucking suck!" it doesn't matter if you're speaking to those and trying to highlight or raise awareness for your own experiences and that of others.
As for the 'others more deserving', something a therapist hears is "I think others deserve this spot more than me" and it just isn't true. There's space for all of us and we should support each and everyone to ensure their voice is heard with ours (if we can harness said privilidge).
I hear that. I love writing, but sometimes I just want to decompress after busy days and weeks. It feels like being idealistic is great, but actually getting out and living can be more important. I wonder if there's a bit of a lesson for both of us here? Stop moaning, Start doing. Ha.
Stop saying my words. It's weird.
Maybe it is our respoinsibility to be the good dudes we've basically said to each other here? Our voices can still be heard with friends, family and those people assosicated with. I've had it our with a son of a friend who spouted some Tate-esque line and had THAT conversation very quickly. That's doing just as much as writing a treatsie on why Tate is an egg-shaped loser.
Thank you. As an upside to all this, my partner and I just had a conversation about the game we would like to create together, and it has her very excited because she feels all of this too. Together we have the skills that could make this happen. It's hard to find meaning in life when you don't subscribe to religion or have children, so maybe this is our thing. If anything, it's something to work on together and give us something to look forward to instead of jobs.
Die hard humanist and childfree guy, I hear you mate.
Work seems to fill the void for so many people and it gets exhausting.
For me, I just remember that life is just supposed to be lived, meaning is something forced on you by society.
Good luck mate
As an avid reader and sometimes poet, your comment makes me sad. Some of my favorite books bridge the gap between literary and popular. I think of the author of Confederacy of Dunces whose book was discovered after he passed.
The book subreddits, r/suggestmeabook and others, put me in touch with others who love to read and through their suggestions I have found books I loved.
Best wishes
I think Toole is a perfect example of someone who wrote something great, but was completely stifled by gatekeepers. If I remember the lore, the book was only released because after his death his mother worked extremely hard to get it published. Quality isn't really something the greater publishing industry really cares about. It's part of the equation, of course, but there are many other factors at play, making it a tedious game to play if you don't have the time or energy or connections, which is where money comes in. If you come from money, it's much easier to put in all the effort required because you're not also working to pay the bills.
I think it's analogous to Hollywood. So many stars of today are only there because they come from Hollywood. Bryce Dallas Howard, for example, has an essay for young Hollywood hopefuls about how to make it in the industry. I didn't read it, but I assume it's one sentence that says, "Be born to Ron Howard, who was born to Rance and Jean Howard."
Art just isn't a meritocracy. It's a lie of our society that the cream rises to the top. I haven't given up on writing because I hate writing. It's more because it takes Herculean effort to make it and I've got bills to pay. When it comes to literature in specific, the truth is that it's an extremely small niche and even the success stories aren't earning any money. They have to teach, work other jobs, or rely on their trust fund to keep them afloat. Even books that win the National Book Award only sell a few thousand copies. It's kind of just a circle jerk.
Something that used to make me smile when I was writing and struggling was looking at my teachers' books on Amazon, seeing my books ranked so much higher than theirs, and knowing that I actually had readers and was making money. A little petty, but it made me feel a modicum of success.
I really enjoyed this article.
I'm a guy who's been suffering from 'loneliness' since my Brother passed around for years ago. But articulating that feeling hasn't been easy. I have a loving wife, a circle of mates who I see fairly often, I attend social gatherings and yet I am supremely lonely! Why?
This article alludes to some really quite interesting parts of the 'need' spectrum, one of which it's got me thinking around how I am percieved and need to be percieved.
Lonelines sucks, we've seen the threads on here, Reddit and elsewhere about it. I wish there was more time for us all to sip coffee, talk of intellectual things and shittalk... but there just isn't.
Enjoy.
I'm sorry for your loss and my analysis here: have you looked into any groups for familial/sibling loss? It seems that perhaps you might be experiencing this loneliness due to the perception that no one can really understand your grief at having lost your brother. Perhaps with a group, as such, you can make even a single connection with someone who shares similar interests and has experienced what you have.
That's what I got from this article and it's something I definitely felt. I had a friend drifting away a few years ago because he was overworked and I was very angry about it, because he was the only person I could talk to intellectually about certain subjects. I started to feel lonely when I wanted to discuss these things and my wife and my friends couldn't really comprehend or offer analysis on the level that I needed.
I appreciate the kind words buddy. It's not really a feeling of grief I dwell on. For me, it's summed up perfectly in the article around the loss of possibility. My BFAM was so much and more, and I've doine therapy around it adn I'm in a decent place. But it has left me terribly lonely sometimes where people don't 'get' why I am. That's okay, I deal with it in a multitude of ways.
You got it in one. After my BFAM passed, a close friend also just chose to ghost me out of their life and it left me quite bereft. It's nearly five years ago and it's very difficult to get past, let alone feel anything towards that.
There's been some big changes in life for me, but sometimes those around me can't offer the insights or analysis I may need. It's an interesting dynamic.
I think being truly "seen" and fundamentally understood in relationships like the one with your brother are incredible blessings but the other side of that is the feeling of being bereft of that and truly understanding how different most other relationships are. Your brother held a piece of who you are inside of him and showed it to you. It's terribly hard and I'm sorry. Other people who will click with you do exist out there, the trouble is we never know how long it will be until we encounter them again. It can feel like being unable to breathe. I dread losing my sister because, while Walt Whitman said he contains multitudes of himselves, people like her and your brother also contain and reflect us.
Spot. The fuck. On.
It has left me very confused as to how people actually get on. I had one other mate who just walked away and I wrote in my journal earlier about their lack of presence is interesting when I associate that they've been the two best mates I've ever had in existence. Everyone else is just kind of... there. But those two absolutely got me as a person.
I quote like that phrase, it's nice to think of what he and I strived for as people. I hope the day for your sister is a LONG time away my dude.
I enjoyed it too, but I wished they addressed the difficulty for introverts in making these kinds of friends. I feel loved and valued by my family, valued by my coworkers for being good at my job, but I don’t have non-family friends who choose to spend time with me just bc they want to. If I lost my family and my job (like when my kids have their own lives, I retire, and my other family members pass, I’ll be totally at a loss for what to do with my time besides my hobbies (which are solitary).