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Fitness Weekly Discussion
What have you been doing lately for your own fitness? Try out any new programs or exercises? Have any questions for others about your training? Want to vent about poor behavior in the gym? Started a new diet or have a new recipe you want to share? Anything else health and wellness related?
I know Tildes probably isn't a busy enough place yet, so likely doesn't have enough fitness nuts here to get much feedback... but I am loathe to post on reddit for this.
I'm looking for some critique of my warmup and dumbbell full-body routine, and am hoping someone here might have some constructive criticism for them. I created it using Hevy after really not enjoying a few of the preexisting routines I found online and tried on previous days/weeks (e.g. Dr Mike's Dumbbell Supersets which I did a few times, and Frankoman's 3 day split which I did all three of last week even though I absolutely hated it).
I've now done my own routine 3 times this week, and it feels great, but I'm not entirely sure it's particularly well balanced so would love some help modifying it. This is the routine so far:
Warm Up
(based on Jeff Nippard's "Science-Based Warm Up & Mobility Routine")
Foam Roll - upper/lower back, hamstrings, calves, glutes, lats, quads
Arm Circles - small 10-12
Arm Circles - big 10-12
Arm Swings - 10-12
Band Pull-aparts - 15
Band External Arm Rotation - 12 each arm
Band Internal Arm Rotation - 12 each arm
Band Face Pulls - 12
Leg Swings - Front to back 12 each leg
Leg Swings - Side to side 12 each leg
Step Throughs - alternating, 6 each leg
Scorpion Stretch - 12
Cossack Squad - alternating, 6 each leg
Standing Calf Raise - 12
Walking Knee Raise - alternating, 12 each leg
Took 21 min first time, but only 12 min third time, and that's probably as fast as it will get unless I skip the foam rolling... which I might actually move to post-workout to help prevent soreness rather than first to help with muscle activation. I know it's a bit overkill, and most people don't even warmup before strength training... but I'm in my 40s and have only recently started lifting again (after 20+ years hiatus) so definitely feel like I need it. :P
Dumbbell Full-Body Routine
(last set to failure, 30s rest in between sets, 1-2min between exercises)
Romanian Deadlift - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Weighted Step Ups - 3 sets | 12 reps, alternating legs
Weighted Lunge - 3 sets | 8 reps, alternating legs
Goblet Squat - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Weighted Standing Calf Raise - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Incline Bench Press - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Seated Incline Curl - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Skull Crusher - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Lat Pullover - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Bench Press - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Standing Hammer Curl - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Bent Over Row - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
Overhead Press - 3 sets | 8-12 reps
It took 1 hour 5 min first time, 52min the third. I can probably do it even faster, but time isn't really the issue for me since I'm working out at home... and I'm already getting a decently elevated heart rate out of it. I'm also even thinking of adding in some Crunch/Situp variations since I have no exercises targeting the abs. And also adding Seated Palms Up Wrist Curls and Seated Wrist Extensions since I would like to have bigger forearms and don't feel like I'm getting enough activation on them with the current routine.
Anyways, who knows if anyone here has the experience or expertise to help me with this... but it's worth a shot. If nobody responds I will probably bite the bullet and post this on /r/fitness or /r/weightlifting. :/
I'd say the most important part of any exercise routine is that you enjoy it. Sticking with any routine is generally the most difficult part of any program, and keeping it fun is all that matters. Depending on your experience level, and goals that is likely a great routine. Doing any kind of strength training will help your longevity and quality of life, so the only real criticism I can offer is don't get too into the weeds as a beginner, nearly any lifting will get you really good results, so enjoy yourself and new gains!
Honestly, even hearing someone else say that about my routine makes me feel better about it. I don't really know what I'm doing (yet) so had no idea if my routine was total nonsense or not. So thanks for taking the time to comment.
Out of curiosity, just based on seeing that routine, what would you think my goals were? Because TBH, my only goals are to improve my overall health by increasing my flexibility and cardio capacity, losing some weight, and gaining some strength. And to help achieve that I have also been doing 3 days per week of flexibility focused yoga (25min) + HIIT cardio (35min) on my elliptical as well. I don't really have any specific goals beyond those basics yet though. I'm not looking to get totally shredded, jacked, swole, or anything like that. :P
Awwwww, but that's the most fun part for me! :P I love super deep diving into things when I take them up as hobbies. I have already read two of Jeff Nippard's books, The Ultimate Guide to Body Recomposition (which is great, BTW) and Fundamentals: Hypertrophy Program, as well as watched countless videos from him, and Dr Mike Israetel (both whom I respect the fitness-related opinions of).
But don't worry, I get your point. Doing the actual workouts is far more important than spending hours researching and "perfecting" my own routine. I have been working out reasonably consistently for the last several months already though, so researching and tinkering with my routine is just some additional fun for me, and actually helps keeps me motivated to continue since I enjoy that process. ;)
My initial impression of the routine (I'm far from an expert, just a fellow nerd) is that it looks like most other hypertrophy focused routines. Depending on how far you want to go you'll be very limited with dumbbells as you'll be limited greatly on progressive overload on lower body exercises. I've been in the rabbit role for years reading/watching similar folks, but my favorite of any is Dr. Erik Helms (of 3DMJ) due to his book The Muscle and Strength Pyramids. That is the most advanced beginner friendly exercise content I continue to refer too, and I always find it funny that even cutting edge research reinforces the basic information in that book.
Yeah, I realize dumbbells are not ideal for progressive overload of the bigger muscles. But TBH my lower body and back are already really quite strong, especially compared to the rest of my muscles due to being formerly "morbidly" obese (I'm down from ~300lbs to 176lbs now!) but still walking a lot, and doing major landscaping jobs every spring/summer/fall for decades. So I have former fat person calves, hams, and quads, and a pretty damn strong back and shoulders too, from regularly digging holes, lifting 50lbs bags of gravel/bark mulch/saplings and potted plants, moving large rocks/patio stones/pavers, etc. while landscaping. ;)
I gave myself the goal of keeping this routine up for a full year before buying any more equipment for myself though, since I think what I have already is good enough to get my upper-front body caught up to the rest of my muscles... and if I do manage to hold to the routine for a full year, I was planning on rewarding myself with a power rack, barbell, and plates (or even splurging on a smith machine/cable equipped power rack) afterwards. I just want to firmly establish the habit and make sure I can stick to the routine (and the even healthier diet) for a full year first though. :P
Thanks for the Dr. Erik Helms recommendation, BTW. I'd never heard of him or 3DMJ before, but will definitely check him and his book out now too. :)
I don't have any significant feedback beyond what everyone else has been saying! I will say you seem to consume more or less the same fitness content I do so anything I could say you'd likely already have heard.
But I'm chiming in because I also use Hevy. If you're a partaker of the social elements, I'd be happy to see you over there!
I've also been poking at the Hevy API in the past week or so. Not sure if that's the sort of thing you'd be interested in, but I don't think there was any real announcement or anything, so heads up that it exists.
Nice! And yeah, the science-based lifters really drew me into their world, it seems. I found it all incredibly interesting, which actually helped me find the motivation I needed to start lifting myself.
I genuinely appreciate the sentiment, but the very first thing I did when I got Hevy was go into the settings and set every social feature to Hide/Private. :P Maybe some day I'll re-enable them when I feel more confident, but for now I am just using Hevy to build routines, and to track my progress purely for myself.
Oh, nice. I will have to take a peak at it too, because their desktop web app really sucks for extracting information from. I also use Google sheets to track a bunch of stuff, so if the API would allow me to extract my workout data from Hevy easier that could potentially save me some time. Thanks for the heads up that the API exists!
I absolutely can appreciate that! Regardless, it remains an open offer.
For sure! That's basically all I've used it for. If you want a quick rundown I can show you what I've already hacked together in Python, which is basically just a reimplementation of their ORM graph cause I don't like the way it squashes time!
Appreciated, and I may take you up on the offer once I get a bit more comfortable with my lifting program. :)
Also appreciated. I wouldn't mind seeing what you've put together just out of curiosity... But even though I'm a terrible programmer, I've dealt with a few APIs in my day too, so should be able to cobble something together for my own needs as well. ;) I already quickly skimmed through the API docs and it seems relatively straightforward as those things go.
I'll send you a DM to avoid cluttering up the thread.
How much weight are you moving with the exercises? Especially with dumbbells, your forearms are going to give out before your legs with exercises like lunges. You could try racking the dumbbells on your shoulders and going heavier with squats and lunges (can also try split squats). Let me know if you need any explainers on technique or exercises!
The general exercises, rep range, and number of reps seems totally fine if you're looking to balance strength and hypertrophy work. Do you have any specific goals in terms of strength or areas you want targeted?
My only other comment is hitting all of these exercises together in one day is likely less effective because some of these exercises work related muscles.
For the leg exercises I actually wasn't taking them to complete failure since I honestly don't care that much about growing them right now, and the rest of my body is way way way behind my legs and back anyways. See this comment for why. (TL;DR - formerly obese landscaper ;)
But since you asked, for the Romanian deadlifts I was using 2x 40lbs dumbbells. Weighted Step Ups 2x 30lbs. Weighted Lunge 2x 25lbs. Standing Calf Raises 2x35lbs. I could probably take the deadlifts to 2x 52.5lbs (which is the heaviest my adjustable dumbbells go) and up the rest by 10lbs or so to actually get closer to complete failure on the final set... but meh. I really really don't want to be on wobbly legs the rest of the workout from blasting them too too hard. And my forearms were completely fine afterwards, so that's not a concern right now. In fact I was even thinking of adding some forearm specific exercises because I feel like they're not being hit hard enough in the routine.
Stronger biceps, triceps, forearms, and pecs, mostly. My biceps and pecs are pathetically weak, hence hitting them both twice in the routine. :/
Yeah, I know... but as I found out last week, I absolutely fucking hate doing splits. ;) I would rather get a decent full-body workout 3x week, regardless of if it takes me 1hr+ than do slightly more effective splits and not be able to use those split targeted muscles for the rest of the day. :P And I have also been enjoying my yoga and HIIT cardio 3x week way too much to want to drop them in favor of more strength training days. Losing weight is still my primary goal overall, since while I am no longer obese I still could stand to lose 10-15lbs... so increasing strength is secondary to me right now.
Totally understand not taking certain exercises to failure. I'm happy you're taking your health seriously and successfully losing weight and getting fit! As you stick with it, you'll definitely notice huge improvements over the next few months.
Lastly, I also love full-body workouts and usually hit everything like you, but I've still had better results doing even a super simple two day split. Something like preacher curls plus incline press on A days then lying curls plus bench press on B days will likely get you much better results as you can get much more mileage out of super-focusing on fewer movements. I know time isn't a concern for you, but a shorter, more intense routine with A days and B days would likely help you target and fully exhaust your muscles.
Edit: one more tip, try taking your last set on each exercise to complete failure. Instead of only doing 8-12 reps, do as many as possible. If you're able to do a lot (15-20+ reps), increase the weight by more than usual next time.
Edit2: u/cfabbro another thing you can consider for forearms is using a bucket filled with rice. I don't care for it since there's no way to do any progressive overload, but it's a very cheap and popular method. Here's a random short with some example exercises. Be careful about overdoing the forearms unless you have wrist straps to help you exercise when your forearms are dead.
Yay! This is exactly the sort of comment I was hoping for! Many many thanks!!!
Yeah, that's one thing Dr Mike and Jeff Nippard have both hammered home to me. That, and taking a slight pause at maximum stretch before starting the next rep. So I have been trying my absolute best to do that, as well as sticking to proper form for every rep too (no cheating using momentum!).
I have actually watched all the Jeff Nippard tier list vids already, BTW. As well as the rankings Dr Mike did with Jesse James West and with Dr. Milo Wolf. As well as a few random lists by Athlean-X and Sal Di Stefano on Mind Pump TV. Going through them all is how I selected the dumbbell exercises I added to my routine! :P I hadn't seen that Dr Mike flat bench curl vid before though, so I will probably swap out the hammer curl for that.
I unfortunately can't actually do dips or dead hangs anywhere at present, since I don't have the equipment for it. But I as I mentioned elsewhere, if I actually keep this up for a year, I was planning on buying myself a power rack so I can start using barbells to do proper squats and such. Most power racks also come standard with a pull-up bar, and you can also get dip attachments for them too. So at some point I would definitely like to add pull-ups, dead hangs, and dips to my routine. They are sadly just not in the cards for now... unless I get myself a cheap "power tower" just to hold me over until I get a rack, which I might do.
I hadn't actually considered the theraband or finger extension bands for forearms though; Those are good ideas! My grip strength is already pretty damn good though, if I do say so myself, since that's another thing landscaping relies on pretty heavily. It's why I haven't been struggling at all to keep a firm hold of the dumbbells even when set to their max of 52.5lbs, despite having kinda puny forearms in terms of their size.
Landscaping often involves repeatedly doing basically what amounts to farmer's carries, and clean lifts directly into shoulder carries, usually with super awkward to grasp shit that you need grip extremely firmly, then walking with that load for quite a long ways. E.g. Last summer over the course of a week I moved about 3k lbs of slate stepping stones, a dozen 100+lbs concrete pavers, and 4k lbs of gravel (2x 50 lbs bags at a time) down a dozen steps and 50-100ft away, before dropping them off (and then having to shift them into place). So yeah, that's why I already have a pretty strong back, legs, and grip, from repeatedly doing stuff like that every year. It's the other muscles I hardly ever use that really need some work though. :P
I was already considering eventually moving to a full-body A/B split (swapping in some of the other highly ranked exercises like preacher curls, dumbbell flys, dumbbell kickbacks, etc.) to get some variety in my exercises, and hit the muscles from slightly different angles, like you suggested too. I am definitely not opposed to splits entirely... I just really dislike Upper/Lower and Push/Pull/Legs splits. But until I feel like I've mastered the form for the exercises I have already selected, I think I will hold off on doing an A/B full-body split for now. It'll likely happen eventually though.
You have given me lots to consider and ruminate on though... so, genuinely, thank you very much for this comment, and all your other responses in the thread too. :)
Yeah, that's what I have been doing for everything but legs... although that's probably not clear by the way I wrote it all out. 8-12 is basically just for the first set. The second set I try to take to 1-2 reps short of failure by the 8-10 mark. And if I get it right the third set I can ideally only get 6-8 reps before complete failure (if I get the weight right).
It'll take doing the routine a few more times for me to properly dial in all the exercises and select the right weights for every set though, so that I actually do get to complete failure at around the 6-8 rep mark in the final set. But right now there are still a few exercises where I can go to all the way up to 12 or even 16 reps on the final set before I get to failure. So I still have some work to do to get it right. I've been using Hevy to track everything though, so it's just a matter of time until I find the exact right weights for every set to get to the ideal 6-8 failure range on final set.
For dips, I meant to specify bench dips since they can easily be done with a couple chairs. Jeff says they're difficult to load, but I honestly think it's pretty easy to keep a dumbbell in my lap for overloading. If you don't already have a bench, the Amazon basics bench is respectable for the price.
For dead hangs, the basic door jamb pull-up bars sold at big box stores work just fine for not much money. Definitely don't need a power tower or cage to do dead hangs.
Sounds like you're doing everything you should! Just keep in mind that the ideal rep range is actually extremely wide, and studies support anything from 3 to 20 reps per set as highly effective, depending on your goals (strength vs hypertrophy). You may even want closer to 12-15 reps for your chest and biceps if hypertrophy is more important there (Jeff short). It can also be beneficial to cheat out one or two partial reps at the end, depending on how sore you want to be.
Ah, gotcha. I could definitely do bench dips just using my existing bench and my coffee table or something. I think I discounted them because of what Jeff said about their "fatal flaw" being progressive overload, so I assumed they were pretty much limited to body weight. But I'll have to give them a try and see if I find it easy to actually weight them like you do too. Great idea!
Heh. All the ceilings in this condo are 12ft tall, and all the doorways are 9ft tall. So to set up one of those door-jam pull up bar contraptions, I would have to use a step ladder to reach the top of the door jam. And if I fell while doing a pull-up from that height I would probably get pretty badly hurt. So they are unfortunately a no go. I would have already bought one if they were feasible. :P
Ah, yeah, Jeff actually mentioned that in his Hypertrophy program book, but I kinda forgot about it, TBH. I will try to keep that in mind and not worry so much about getting to failure at exactly 6-8 reps, especially for muscles I want to grow more. Thanks for the reminder! :)
That’s a lot of warm up. If you wanted to cut down time on warming up, you could a brisk 5 minute walk. Then, before each set, you can use lower weight to perform the movement. Like if you normally use 20 lb dumbbells for lunges, do a warm up set with 10 lb dumbbells. This lower weight warm up is good for warming up with the specific movements you’ll be doing. However, if you like what you’re doing now, it’s fine.
Is that full body routine all one day? That seems like a lot of volume. You might want to consider doing an upper-lower split. This would cut down on exercise time each day and help with fatigue, because your body has extra time to recover the target muscles.
Increasing rest time between sets and exercises will help keep cardio from being a limiting factor and it will help your strength performance. However, if cardio improvement is a specific goal and you don’t want to add explicit cardio training, then what you’re doing is fine.
How do you plan to progress each week? Are you adding more weight? More reps? More sets? What is your plan when you fail to hit your target goal? For example, you have programmed 3 sets of 8 reps of bench press, but you can only do 6 reps. You’ve just listed exercises, but periodization is important too. Examples of periodization are linear progression (good for beginners, less good for intermediate and advanced), daily undulating periodization, and more.
For exercise selection, I’d consider doing split squats over goblet squats since goblet squats are harder to progress. I also don’t think there’s much point in having incline bench and flat bench on the same day.
Heh, yeah, it definitely is... but as I said, I'm 40+ and time spent working out isn't a major concern for me. I also haven't lifted weights regularly since I was in my teens/very early 20s, so I genuinely feel like I need all the warmup I can get right now to avoid injury and help with soreness. I will probably gradually lower the amount I warmup as I get stronger when it comes to stabilizing my movements, and regain my flexibility and recovery speed though.
It is all in one day. But only 3x week. My other 3 days are dedicated to flexibility focused yoga (25min) combined with HIIT cardio (35min), with one full day of rest. And as I found out by doing the Frankoman split last week, I really really hate splits. :P They're incredibly boring to me, and I enjoy full-body routines a LOT more... so I'm just trying to create a decently well-rounded full-body routine that hits a bit of everything, but hits my biceps and pecs most since they're by far my weakest muscles in comparison to the rest.
Primarily by adding more weight at first, but I also already do super slow eccentrics and hold a second at the maximum stretch, which helps reduce the volume I can do before failure. I have no targets for weights though, since the weight numbers themselves are not all that important to me. And I also haven't factored in periodization or anything like that yet, but I am so early in my strength training journey that I don't think I really need to focus on that right now. It would likely just make everything way more confusing for me having to do periodization, or calculate my ORM to do 5-3-1 sort of stuff. I will probably get there eventually once I feel like I have plateaued, but that is likely a long ways away still. :P
Cardio really isn't a limiting factor for me when it comes to lifting weights. I have been doing 1hr moderate-high intensity cardio on my excise bike reasonably consistently for a few years now, and ultra-intense HIIT cardio 3x week on my elliptical for several months. So the 30s between sets, and 1-2 min between exercises (which is mostly time spent just adjusting my weights and the bench) is more than enough. And I have not been super fatigued by the end of the routine either, hence why I am considering even adding in some crunches/situps and forearm specific excercises.
Yeah, I am already doing 52.5lbs goblet squats, which is the max my adjustable dumbbells go to... so I will very likely have to swap it with split squats or bulgarian split squats or something else eventually. As I said in another comment though, growing my legs is my lowest priority right now since they're by far my strongest muscles (formerly obese person who walked a lot, and has done landscaping for decades, so was moving heavy shit around constantly every spring-summer-fall ;).
I do appreciate the advice even though I was somewhat dismissive of parts of it though, BTW. It is all worth keeping in mind for me as I move forward with things. So thanks for bringing it all up. But right now I'm still just trying to find what works for me though, and can keep me interested so I can build the habit... and a full-body routine seems to do that best (so far). :)
I don't know what kind of dumbbells you're using, but have you considered doing light or unweighted movements of your core exercises for warm-up? Since you're already doing yoga regularly for flexibility, you might get more results out of focusing on really dialing-in your form as you warmup.
I haven't seen much evidence that warmups prevent soreness since that's something that mostly goes away as you get used to working out (depending on the type of soreness and how long it takes for the soreness to kick in). If you want to avoid injury, I've personally found that directly practicing the difficult movements is the best preventative. Especially at your level, getting used to the exercises and motions themselves will pay the biggest dividends.
I used to have pain with deadlifts and squats, and I found the best way to address it was: doing the motions with lighter/no weight and adding accessory exercises to target my weaker muscles (spinal erectors in my case).
I'm using adjustable dumbbells that go from 5-52.5 lbs. So warming up by just going through the same lifting motions but using much lower weight is definitely possible, and might not be such a bad idea to help me hone in on the correct form. I would honestly struggle to figure out what to drop from my existing warmup to accommodate that though, since I feel like all the movements in it actually do help me in various ways besides just getting me ready for heavy lifting.
I am getting kinda old now so morning stiffness, regardless of if I worked out the previous day or not, is becoming more and more of an issue, and the warmup movements in the routine really help work that stiffness out so I can move better the rest of the day. Which is the same reason why I do the 25min of yoga before the HIIT cardio too even though I don't really need to warm up for that. Whereas I suspect just practicing the lifts with low weight wouldn't accomplish that same thing.
I will give just practicing the motions a try on Mon (next weight day) instead of my normal warmup routine though, and let you know how it goes. :)
Heya. I tried going through light/unweighted reps of each exercise as a warm up like you suggested. It definitely helped me hone my form (esp deadlifts, which I still really suck at fully hitting the hams with), but unfortunately they were not nearly enough to actually loosen me up to where I felt comfortable moving on to proper lifting. I was still pretty stiff, and getting tendon/joint clicks whenever I rolled my shoulders/neck, lifted my knees, etc. And because of that I still ended up doing my normal warmup routine (minus the foam rolling) before starting my full lifting routine, and felt much better for it. So I don't think I will keep doing the light/unweighted reps as a warmup, per se, but I will probably keep doing a few of them right before some of the exercises I haven't quite mastered the form of yet, to help get better at executing them.
p.s. I also moved the foam/lacrosse-ball rolling to after the workout, and only did it on the muscles that felt super tight/blasted... which really seemed to help with the post workout soreness/stiffness too. I know there is not much concrete evidence of it actually helping with that, but my body is 100% telling me otherwise. Rolling out the muscles afterwards felt great, and I feel a lot better now (several hours later) than I did several hours after my last workout, even though I pushed myself way harder this time. :P
Couple unweighted practice reps is totally fine. Whatever works for you!
I had trouble with that too. For me, focusing on pushing my butt back, keeping my knees a bit straighter, and imagining pushing my butt towards the corner of the ceiling and wall helped. Could also try playing around with Romanian deadlifts as a variation to feel an extra deep stretch in the hamstrings.
Yeah, I did Romanian deadlifts all last week, and they felt pretty good. I decided to try regular deadlifts today though, but I couldn't seem to get any stretch feeling in my hamstrings or significantly tire them out. So I will probably just go back to doing RDLs on Wed. :/ I also might give dumbbell hamstring curls a try at some point... or single-leg RDLs if/when I can't hit my hamstrings hard enough anymore with normal RDLs at the max weight of my dumbbells (2x52.5lbs).