Ideally yes, iOS should have icelandic language support - but one most also consider that 90-98% if the population in Iceland speaks and reads english fluently. The vast majority of foreign media...
Ideally yes, iOS should have icelandic language support - but one most also consider that 90-98% if the population in Iceland speaks and reads english fluently. The vast majority of foreign media (movies, games, books) is never translated to Icelandic because the English fluency rate is so high. The country is essentially bilingual with nearly everyone speaking English. There are many education programs (especially in grad school), where English is the primary language; a lot of workplaces require english speaking.
The flip side of this argument is that adding Icelandic is not an expensive proposition for Apple; even going as far as hiring several full time Icelandic translators would still be a drop in the...
The flip side of this argument is that adding Icelandic is not an expensive proposition for Apple; even going as far as hiring several full time Icelandic translators would still be a drop in the bucket of their profits from Iceland alone.
Having your OS in a language you want to learn/keep knowledge of is very valuable, you see people setting their systems to secondary languages all the time to help build that immersion. Even if you're fluent in both languages, only operating in English will cause your Icelandic to diminish.
Plenty of other major tech platforms support Icelandic, including Android and Facebook, so iOS's lack of translations feels out of place.
Oh, I agree it should be supported - if nothing else but for accessibility's sake. I'm just exploring why it's wasn't probably a priority at Apple. With this org's request, I'm sure Apple will...
Oh, I agree it should be supported - if nothing else but for accessibility's sake. I'm just exploring why it's wasn't probably a priority at Apple. With this org's request, I'm sure Apple will implement it soon enough.
I'm not criticizing them, and the Almannarómur was present at the meeting directly. But I felt it was worth noting that the government of Iceland is making the ask/challenge, not just a 3rd party...
I'm not criticizing them, and the Almannarómur was present at the meeting directly.
But I felt it was worth noting that the government of Iceland is making the ask/challenge, not just a 3rd party ngo or other group. I'm less confident that Apple will act based on that ask since they haven't before.
Does Iceland require language support for companies that do business in the country? I'm wondering if that's why Apple has zero physical presence there.
Does Iceland require language support for companies that do business in the country? I'm wondering if that's why Apple has zero physical presence there.
From what I was reading it's all 3rd party, no Apple stores, no direct sales, no Apple TV+ So I'm not sure if there's a legal reason for that or just disregard for the market - and thus accessibility.
From what I was reading it's all 3rd party, no Apple stores, no direct sales, no Apple TV+
So I'm not sure if there's a legal reason for that or just disregard for the market - and thus accessibility.
Unless the third-party sellers are smuggling the phones into the country somehow, it seems unlikely that Apple isn't doing something that legally would be considered doing business in Iceland,...
Unless the third-party sellers are smuggling the phones into the country somehow, it seems unlikely that Apple isn't doing something that legally would be considered doing business in Iceland, even without first-party stores. Exporting your phones to Icelandic businesses would still count, I assume. But idk, honestly. I'm not sure if Iceland legally requires businesses to use Icelandic, but even if it does I doubt Apple lacks a physical presence there for that reason -- Iceland is a small and expensive country, so I think it's not that unusual for a given country not to have a direct presence there.
This is why I'm asking the question, hoping someone might have knowledge since it seems we're both guessing. I don't know how odd it is for Apple not to serve Iceland directly or why that might...
This is why I'm asking the question, hoping someone might have knowledge since it seems we're both guessing. I don't know how odd it is for Apple not to serve Iceland directly or why that might be, or why they're behind Android on language localization.
But neither of us know so I'll just have to hope someone comes along who does!
“For people with disabilities, the lack of Icelandic on Apple devices is not a minor technical issue but a question of independence and human rights.” Ah yes, the latest human rights crisis: Apple...
“For people with disabilities, the lack of Icelandic on Apple devices is not a minor technical issue but a question of independence and human rights.”
Ah yes, the latest human rights crisis: Apple hasn’t optimized for a ~350k-speaker language yet. Tough situation right up there with free speech and due process.
I think this is a really dismissive and inconsiderate attitude to have about accessibility. But to lock people out of effective communication absolutely inhibits their free speech and due process....
I think this is a really dismissive and inconsiderate attitude to have about accessibility.
But to lock people out of effective communication absolutely inhibits their free speech and due process. It's not less worthy for occurring in a small country or to disabled people. In fact issues of speech and due process tend to impact disabled people more proportionally. Especially in a country where they have a majority of iOS adoption, it does not seem like it is an unreasonable ask, after how many years?
On top of this, they aren't trying to compel a small startup company to do something onerous. Apple made $206 billion last year. They wouldn't even notice a small team of Icelandic translators on...
On top of this, they aren't trying to compel a small startup company to do something onerous. Apple made $206 billion last year. They wouldn't even notice a small team of Icelandic translators on the bottom line.
This, 100%. I worked on implementing translations at a massive tech company in the past and, for example, translating over 100,000 strings to a new language would cost anywhere from $15,000 to...
They wouldn't even notice a small team of Icelandic translators on the bottom line.
This, 100%. I worked on implementing translations at a massive tech company in the past and, for example, translating over 100,000 strings to a new language would cost anywhere from $15,000 to $70,000, depending on the methods used. That's less than a drop in the bucket for Apple.
I think this comment really is in quite poor taste and doesn't really specifically address anything in the article in any intelligent form? I am not sure why you would post this, really. It is...
I think this comment really is in quite poor taste and doesn't really specifically address anything in the article in any intelligent form?
I am not sure why you would post this, really. It is rare I see something like this on Tildes as the whole style of this comment is written like something I'd see on a low-effort Reddit thread.
The Icelandic language is not exactly an obscure language and there very much does exist a real issue surrounding accessibility to residents if you don't offer it. Whilst English comprehension may be high, it's not 100% and some residents are , undeniably, being disadvantaged by one of the two major phone OSs not offering content in the native language of a country in which they also sell their products.
Something being more trivial than a more serious human rights issue does not thus mean it is irrelevant.
I am not who you are responding to, but I did not receive that person's comment in as negative a light as you did. Certainly not ideally phrased, and probably requiring more nuance and...
I am not who you are responding to, but I did not receive that person's comment in as negative a light as you did. Certainly not ideally phrased, and probably requiring more nuance and explanation, yes.
It was very sarcastic and dismissive of accessibility to mock language localization being framed as independence and human rights. One could say "I don't know if the cost benefit analysis is worth...
It was very sarcastic and dismissive of accessibility to mock language localization being framed as independence and human rights.
One could say "I don't know if the cost benefit analysis is worth it" and not be as dismissive as the previous poster.
To balance things out, I saw it as much worse than @Flother did. Or at least my response to the initial comment would have been much less calm and respectfully worded than theirs and thus probably...
To balance things out, I saw it as much worse than @Flother did. Or at least my response to the initial comment would have been much less calm and respectfully worded than theirs and thus probably inappropriate for Tildes, so I was glad that other users had already left sensible, measured responses to the absolutely gross attitude in the top-level comment so that I didn't rashly leave a much shorter and more hostile reply. The fact that the top-level comment has upvotes, much less people defending it from the most calm and reasonably phrased objection imaginable, reflects negatively on Tildes.
In fairness, Android supports Icelandic as a system language and has done so for a while now so I don't see a reason why Apple shouldn't do the same. I don't have official data on OS market share...
In fairness, Android supports Icelandic as a system language and has done so for a while now so I don't see a reason why Apple shouldn't do the same. I don't have official data on OS market share in Iceland but sources claim it's like 56% iOS to 44% Android. Given their slight lead in the market, they should absolutely support Icelandic.
It's a human rights crisis, too, that Icelanders can't modify their own phones, but need to use them, because reasons. It's vitally important that everyone use devices and software made by...
It's a human rights crisis, too, that Icelanders can't modify their own phones, but need to use them, because reasons.
It's vitally important that everyone use devices and software made by American megacorps on their timeline with their priorities, hence your callousness to a real struggle for these people. Of course Apple wouldn't prioritize the disabled users of minority languages, they don't have a location in every region on the planet, to start.
Ideally yes, iOS should have icelandic language support - but one most also consider that 90-98% if the population in Iceland speaks and reads english fluently. The vast majority of foreign media (movies, games, books) is never translated to Icelandic because the English fluency rate is so high. The country is essentially bilingual with nearly everyone speaking English. There are many education programs (especially in grad school), where English is the primary language; a lot of workplaces require english speaking.
The flip side of this argument is that adding Icelandic is not an expensive proposition for Apple; even going as far as hiring several full time Icelandic translators would still be a drop in the bucket of their profits from Iceland alone.
Having your OS in a language you want to learn/keep knowledge of is very valuable, you see people setting their systems to secondary languages all the time to help build that immersion. Even if you're fluent in both languages, only operating in English will cause your Icelandic to diminish.
Plenty of other major tech platforms support Icelandic, including Android and Facebook, so iOS's lack of translations feels out of place.
Oh, I agree it should be supported - if nothing else but for accessibility's sake. I'm just exploring why it's wasn't probably a priority at Apple. With this org's request, I'm sure Apple will implement it soon enough.
To be clear "this org" is the country of Iceland.
I suppose this is what oidar meant
I'm not criticizing them, and the Almannarómur was present at the meeting directly.
But I felt it was worth noting that the government of Iceland is making the ask/challenge, not just a 3rd party ngo or other group. I'm less confident that Apple will act based on that ask since they haven't before.
Does Iceland require language support for companies that do business in the country? I'm wondering if that's why Apple has zero physical presence there.
I'm not sure if physical presence really changes whether they're doing business in the country if they're selling their phones there still, though...
From what I was reading it's all 3rd party, no Apple stores, no direct sales, no Apple TV+
So I'm not sure if there's a legal reason for that or just disregard for the market - and thus accessibility.
Unless the third-party sellers are smuggling the phones into the country somehow, it seems unlikely that Apple isn't doing something that legally would be considered doing business in Iceland, even without first-party stores. Exporting your phones to Icelandic businesses would still count, I assume. But idk, honestly. I'm not sure if Iceland legally requires businesses to use Icelandic, but even if it does I doubt Apple lacks a physical presence there for that reason -- Iceland is a small and expensive country, so I think it's not that unusual for a given country not to have a direct presence there.
This is why I'm asking the question, hoping someone might have knowledge since it seems we're both guessing. I don't know how odd it is for Apple not to serve Iceland directly or why that might be, or why they're behind Android on language localization.
But neither of us know so I'll just have to hope someone comes along who does!
Iceland + Apple: Mutual Friends
“For people with disabilities, the lack of Icelandic on Apple devices is not a minor technical issue but a question of independence and human rights.”
Ah yes, the latest human rights crisis: Apple hasn’t optimized for a ~350k-speaker language yet. Tough situation right up there with free speech and due process.
I think this is a really dismissive and inconsiderate attitude to have about accessibility.
But to lock people out of effective communication absolutely inhibits their free speech and due process. It's not less worthy for occurring in a small country or to disabled people. In fact issues of speech and due process tend to impact disabled people more proportionally. Especially in a country where they have a majority of iOS adoption, it does not seem like it is an unreasonable ask, after how many years?
On top of this, they aren't trying to compel a small startup company to do something onerous. Apple made $206 billion last year. They wouldn't even notice a small team of Icelandic translators on the bottom line.
This, 100%. I worked on implementing translations at a massive tech company in the past and, for example, translating over 100,000 strings to a new language would cost anywhere from $15,000 to $70,000, depending on the methods used. That's less than a drop in the bucket for Apple.
I think this comment really is in quite poor taste and doesn't really specifically address anything in the article in any intelligent form?
I am not sure why you would post this, really. It is rare I see something like this on Tildes as the whole style of this comment is written like something I'd see on a low-effort Reddit thread.
The Icelandic language is not exactly an obscure language and there very much does exist a real issue surrounding accessibility to residents if you don't offer it. Whilst English comprehension may be high, it's not 100% and some residents are , undeniably, being disadvantaged by one of the two major phone OSs not offering content in the native language of a country in which they also sell their products.
Something being more trivial than a more serious human rights issue does not thus mean it is irrelevant.
I am not who you are responding to, but I did not receive that person's comment in as negative a light as you did. Certainly not ideally phrased, and probably requiring more nuance and explanation, yes.
It was very sarcastic and dismissive of accessibility to mock language localization being framed as independence and human rights.
One could say "I don't know if the cost benefit analysis is worth it" and not be as dismissive as the previous poster.
To balance things out, I saw it as much worse than @Flother did. Or at least my response to the initial comment would have been much less calm and respectfully worded than theirs and thus probably inappropriate for Tildes, so I was glad that other users had already left sensible, measured responses to the absolutely gross attitude in the top-level comment so that I didn't rashly leave a much shorter and more hostile reply. The fact that the top-level comment has upvotes, much less people defending it from the most calm and reasonably phrased objection imaginable, reflects negatively on Tildes.
I agree with that. It was really disappointing to open up a thread and basically have the top comment be simping for a trillion dollar company.
Luckily it seems like the comment labels have worked, at least. But yeah, same.
In fairness, Android supports Icelandic as a system language and has done so for a while now so I don't see a reason why Apple shouldn't do the same. I don't have official data on OS market share in Iceland but sources claim it's like 56% iOS to 44% Android. Given their slight lead in the market, they should absolutely support Icelandic.
It's a human rights crisis, too, that Icelanders can't modify their own phones, but need to use them, because reasons.
It's vitally important that everyone use devices and software made by American megacorps on their timeline with their priorities, hence your callousness to a real struggle for these people. Of course Apple wouldn't prioritize the disabled users of minority languages, they don't have a location in every region on the planet, to start.