I thouht this video discussion was interesting both in explaining what was going on inthe narrative of Jesus' last passover, as well as linking it to modern Christian Nationalism. It seemed to be...
I thouht this video discussion was interesting both in explaining what was going on inthe narrative of Jesus' last passover, as well as linking it to modern Christian Nationalism. It seemed to be a discussion between two people who actually focus on the scholarly side of the religion and not just the dogma.
EDIT --- Ahh, dear /u/canekicker, I was re-reading my post and I wanted to quickly apologize for tone: my comment was not meant to target anything you said specifically at all - I found your...
EDIT --- Ahh, dear /u/canekicker, I was re-reading my post and I wanted to quickly apologize for tone: my comment was not meant to target anything you said specifically at all - I found your comment illuminating and insightful. And then flew into a tangent of soap boxy things I wanted to say to an overall broadly liberal crowd instead of just you. My apologies for the foaming at the mouth in your direction, please forgive me : )
thanks for the plathora of links on this topic - I don't know those names because I don't run in Evangelical circles anymore, so that'll be uh, "fun" to wade back into.
~20% of white evangelicals didn't support Trump in 2020... which is depressing but something.
I also feel slightly compelled to point out, though, that most religious people in America aren't white, and aren't even evangelicals....
Yes, white protestants (evangelicals or not) and catholics have a large percentage who view trump favorably.
But in every other U.S. religious group large enough to be analyzed in this survey, large majorities have unfavorable opinions of Trump, including:
88% of atheists
82% of agnostics
80% of Black Protestants
79% of Jewish Americans
These religious patterns largely reflect partisan differences. Most White evangelicals tend to vote for Republicans, as do smaller majorities of White Catholics and White nonevangelical Protestants. By contrast, most atheists, agnostics, Black Protestants and Jews tend to vote for Democrats.
Is it possible that it's not so much faith or no faith, or even Christian or not Christian, but rather, it is White-ness when combined with conservatism that makes people align themselves with Trump? The other thing we have to remember that American democracy does not happen in a vacuum: there's unlimited super PAC money targeting precisely white conservatives for decades to keep isolating and radicalizing them. Is it so odd that a specifically targeted group, reading tailored articles, watching tailored TV and sharing tailored memes become radicalized?
I wanted to kind of....not speak on their behalf so much as "cautionary tale"-ing ourselves. There's unlimited super PAC money targeting you and I as well to keep feeling outraged, keep feeling in danger, keep othering those awful people, and keep flattering ourselves that we stand for truth and justice and all things good in a decaying world. It's easy to say, wow look at how ignorant and horrible those people are. It's harder to say, wow look at what money in politics have turned our brothers/sisters and our neighbours into. Which is exactly what those who don't have our collective interests at heart have been trying to do.
Agreed. I was actually thinking yesterday about how one can use the scholarly side to push your agenda by telling the truth...but not the whole truth. I paused while writing my comment to reflect...
Agreed. I was actually thinking yesterday about how one can use the scholarly side to push your agenda by telling the truth...but not the whole truth. I paused while writing my comment to reflect on that, but decided that they are just using that information to make an analogy and not to push a knowingly false narrative.
I think it's important to see how just because the so-called culture war is largely pushed by evangelicals doesn't mean that it is inherently Christian or even evangelical.
While what you're describing in the first part certainly exists, I think it's probably something that you experience mainly in relation to the hyper-intense church where you grew up. In my...
While what you're describing in the first part certainly exists, I think it's probably something that you experience mainly in relation to the hyper-intense church where you grew up. In my experience, most Christians don't know or care about the differences between denominations, other than knowing about the saints and maybe transubstantiation with Catholics and perhaps the more involved members knowing that the "other" version of their denomination is crazy (e.g. ELCA vs. Missouri Synod/PCUSA vs. PCA).
At the church I grew up at (which is definitely evangelical in all the ways worth criticizing), we used to joke that new denominations would start over disagreements on the color of the carpet.
I guess it's why Christianity has such a long history of schisms and so many denominations.
At the church I grew up at (which is definitely evangelical in all the ways worth criticizing), we used to joke that new denominations would start over disagreements on the color of the carpet.
Good video. Level-headed and good details that didn't feel too esoteric for those who haven't heard those stories in a while. If it's alright I'd like to go on a tangent and mention that Robert...
Good video. Level-headed and good details that didn't feel too esoteric for those who haven't heard those stories in a while.
If it's alright I'd like to go on a tangent and mention that Robert Jones of PRRI has been touring and doing online talks about the rise of Christian nationalism in the church. Unfortunately I can't link to a specific video because they seem to only leave a few videos up at a time and nothing older than 3 years.
But a while back I watched a live talk that he did and it was really substantive and profound to have a white person speaking about the historical and generational roots of particular cultural beliefs and the entrenchment of nationalist views in certain "southern" churches. He also has a couple books out on the subjects of Christians struggling with an identity that has stayed true to their faith but pivoted away from what is preached in church, in addition to I think a book about his own family's southern roots and how he's had to reshape his way of thinking.
Really great stuff and I hope more people view OP's video and PRRI's research. The work that they're doing is important and one of the steps we need to be taking to combat extremism and violence in the west.
I thouht this video discussion was interesting both in explaining what was going on inthe narrative of Jesus' last passover, as well as linking it to modern Christian Nationalism. It seemed to be a discussion between two people who actually focus on the scholarly side of the religion and not just the dogma.
EDIT --- Ahh, dear /u/canekicker, I was re-reading my post and I wanted to quickly apologize for tone: my comment was not meant to target anything you said specifically at all - I found your comment illuminating and insightful. And then flew into a tangent of soap boxy things I wanted to say to an overall broadly liberal crowd instead of just you. My apologies for the foaming at the mouth in your direction, please forgive me : )
thanks for the plathora of links on this topic - I don't know those names because I don't run in Evangelical circles anymore, so that'll be uh, "fun" to wade back into.
I also feel slightly compelled to point out, though, that most religious people in America aren't white, and aren't even evangelicals....
Pew Research March 2024 -
Yes, white protestants (evangelicals or not) and catholics have a large percentage who view trump favorably.
Is it possible that it's not so much faith or no faith, or even Christian or not Christian, but rather, it is White-ness when combined with conservatism that makes people align themselves with Trump? The other thing we have to remember that American democracy does not happen in a vacuum: there's unlimited super PAC money targeting precisely white conservatives for decades to keep isolating and radicalizing them. Is it so odd that a specifically targeted group, reading tailored articles, watching tailored TV and sharing tailored memes become radicalized?
I wanted to kind of....not speak on their behalf so much as "cautionary tale"-ing ourselves. There's unlimited super PAC money targeting you and I as well to keep feeling outraged, keep feeling in danger, keep othering those awful people, and keep flattering ourselves that we stand for truth and justice and all things good in a decaying world. It's easy to say, wow look at how ignorant and horrible those people are. It's harder to say, wow look at what money in politics have turned our brothers/sisters and our neighbours into. Which is exactly what those who don't have our collective interests at heart have been trying to do.
Agreed. I was actually thinking yesterday about how one can use the scholarly side to push your agenda by telling the truth...but not the whole truth. I paused while writing my comment to reflect on that, but decided that they are just using that information to make an analogy and not to push a knowingly false narrative.
I think it's important to see how just because the so-called culture war is largely pushed by evangelicals doesn't mean that it is inherently Christian or even evangelical.
While what you're describing in the first part certainly exists, I think it's probably something that you experience mainly in relation to the hyper-intense church where you grew up. In my experience, most Christians don't know or care about the differences between denominations, other than knowing about the saints and maybe transubstantiation with Catholics and perhaps the more involved members knowing that the "other" version of their denomination is crazy (e.g. ELCA vs. Missouri Synod/PCUSA vs. PCA).
At the church I grew up at (which is definitely evangelical in all the ways worth criticizing), we used to joke that new denominations would start over disagreements on the color of the carpet.
Good video. Level-headed and good details that didn't feel too esoteric for those who haven't heard those stories in a while.
If it's alright I'd like to go on a tangent and mention that Robert Jones of PRRI has been touring and doing online talks about the rise of Christian nationalism in the church. Unfortunately I can't link to a specific video because they seem to only leave a few videos up at a time and nothing older than 3 years.
But a while back I watched a live talk that he did and it was really substantive and profound to have a white person speaking about the historical and generational roots of particular cultural beliefs and the entrenchment of nationalist views in certain "southern" churches. He also has a couple books out on the subjects of Christians struggling with an identity that has stayed true to their faith but pivoted away from what is preached in church, in addition to I think a book about his own family's southern roots and how he's had to reshape his way of thinking.
Really great stuff and I hope more people view OP's video and PRRI's research. The work that they're doing is important and one of the steps we need to be taking to combat extremism and violence in the west.