26 votes

Marriage between cousins and extended family members may soon be banned in Norway

7 comments

  1. [7]
    sonufamitch
    Link
    When I read the title, I thought this was going to be an issue like Iceland, where genetic pools are so narrow you can accidentally hook up with a cousin. This is not the same story. This is...

    When I read the title, I thought this was going to be an issue like Iceland, where genetic pools are so narrow you can accidentally hook up with a cousin. This is not the same story. This is particularly targeting Norwegian-Pakistani marriages, with some pointing out the racist/culturalist implications of such a law.

    Others point out that cousin marriages are more common in forced marriages, and that targeting this will prevent it... I don't believe this. If it was to reduce forced marriages, then require and fund counselling for all relationships prior to a marriage. Any counter thoughts?

    14 votes
    1. Aerio
      Link Parent
      That seems like a very fair counter point to me. It's hard to say no when it might mean having to completely break ties with your family, which might not be possible at the age of 16. The legal...

      However, honour crime expert and former Kurdish refugee Jasmina Holten believes that the draft legislation is right in targeting cousin-related marriages. Holten also says that a clear connection exists between forced marriages and tying the knot with cousins.

      “The connection is that the traditions are so strong and the family ties so tight that it makes it extremely much worse to stand up against decisions that you disagree with. The pressure and the ties mean that you would rather choose to stand in a control regime with violence, than to break out and say no,” she said to NRK which was quoted in Utrop.

      That seems like a very fair counter point to me. It's hard to say no when it might mean having to completely break ties with your family, which might not be possible at the age of 16. The legal age to get married is 18, but can be lowered to 16 with the consent of parents.

      18 votes
    2. vektor
      Link Parent
      ...with the source being "christian network europe". I'm not saying other outlets wouldn't make a "culture war" type issue out of it, or wouldn't highlight the pakistani connection... Ok, no,...

      This is particularly targeting Norwegian-Pakistani marriages, with some pointing out the racist/culturalist implications of such a law.

      ...with the source being "christian network europe". I'm not saying other outlets wouldn't make a "culture war" type issue out of it, or wouldn't highlight the pakistani connection... Ok, no, that's exactly what I'm saying, but I have little evidence for it.

      10 votes
    3. [2]
      primarily
      Link Parent
      Assuming that all couples went to some counselor, for which there may or may not be enough trained people, how would that benefit a young girl who's been groomed by cultural expectations of female...

      Assuming that all couples went to some counselor, for which there may or may not be enough trained people, how would that benefit a young girl who's been groomed by cultural expectations of female servitude? How might she have gained the interpersonal skills to stand up for herself and talk about what's happening? Emotional abuse and family pressure is a big hill that a few counseling sessions might not uncover. I'm not really sure what the answer is to this, but banning cousins from marrying seems straightforward.

      8 votes
      1. EgoEimi
        Link Parent
        I think that this is at the heart of the current cultural-religious issues in Europe. How does the state balance individual liberty with religious liberty? And fundamentally, if 'individual'...

        I think that this is at the heart of the current cultural-religious issues in Europe. How does the state balance individual liberty with religious liberty? And fundamentally, if 'individual' choice and 'religious' choice ultimately are functions of society and culture anyway, how can balance be found?

        A lot of migrants do come from cultures where the concept of the individual is weak and individual choice is completely enmeshed with ethnosociocultural norms, the rejection thereof would result in ostracism by one's own family and ethnic community or worse.

        Any move to protect individual choice and rights would necessarily be at opposition with these anti-individual ethnosociocultural norms.

        3 votes
    4. [2]
      Gekko
      Link Parent
      Why wouldn't they just target forced marriages? Weird as it is to me, if cousins really like each other, I suppose they could get married and they would be negatively impacted by this ruling. On...

      Why wouldn't they just target forced marriages? Weird as it is to me, if cousins really like each other, I suppose they could get married and they would be negatively impacted by this ruling.

      On the other hand, if people aren't cousins, but are forced into marriage, that's still fucked up and nonconsensual. This law wouldn't protect them at all.

      7 votes
      1. steradian
        Link Parent
        A tradition of cousin marriage makes cousins much more close related genetically than they would otherwise be. It means you have higher chances of inbreeding-related disabilities appearing in...

        A tradition of cousin marriage makes cousins much more close related genetically than they would otherwise be. It means you have higher chances of inbreeding-related disabilities appearing in Pakistani diaspora communities that practice cousin marriage.

        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/4014743/Warning-over-births-to-first-cousin-marriages.html

        Although British parents of Pakistani origin account for 3.4 per cent of all births nationwide, they also account for around 30 per cent of children born with recessive gene disorders.

        While only 15 per cent of the population in Bradford is of Pakistani origin, an estimated 55 per cent are married to their first cousins.

        The city has the second highest number of infant deaths in England and birth disorders involving recessive genes are 10 to 15 per cent higher than the general population, according to a study by St Luke's Hospital, Bradford.

        10 votes