Which, from a strategic standpoint, seems very counterintuitive. Judaism was once vast and powerful but now, in terms of numbers, they're one of the smallest religions and are relegated primarily...
Which, from a strategic standpoint, seems very counterintuitive. Judaism was once vast and powerful but now, in terms of numbers, they're one of the smallest religions and are relegated primarily to the US and Israel. You'd think they would want people to convert. Then again I'm neither Jewish nor religious so what do I know.
I mean, the culling of their people didn't really help them in terms of numbers. Overall, though, you're right. It's sort of like a country that accepts very few immigrants, but has a very high...
I mean, the culling of their people didn't really help them in terms of numbers.
Overall, though, you're right. It's sort of like a country that accepts very few immigrants, but has a very high emigration rate -- the economy is bound to be troubled (like any economy, but markedly worse).
The point of a religion is to develop your spiritual connection to God, not to engage in some megalomaniacal world domination scheme to make everyone like you.
The point of a religion is to develop your spiritual connection to God, not to engage in some megalomaniacal world domination scheme to make everyone like you.
Religions are for spirituality in the same way that computers are for, well, computing. That is their reason to be, but they are often used for other things because people misuse things for their...
Religions are for spirituality in the same way that computers are for, well, computing. That is their reason to be, but they are often used for other things because people misuse things for their own ends all the time.
The fact that humans abuse everything for power doesn't mean that the reasons those things have to exist are false.
Let me clarify by saying I completely agree with you and @NaraVara that the theoretical point of religion is to bring an individual closer to God, whatever that interpretation may be. That being...
Let me clarify by saying I completely agree with you and @NaraVara that the theoretical point of religion is to bring an individual closer to God, whatever that interpretation may be.
That being said, to deny millenia of practical misuse across multiple different theologies as part of what makes those theologies what they are is pretty disingenuous as far as I can see.
A religion's belief system is exactly what its individuals believe it is. If people who are a part of that belief system repeatedly try to spread its influence, then at some point we (the general we, rather than the specific) must accept that part of modern religion is proselytizing. For example: the mere existence of religious missionaries is the most glaring counterpoint to the argument that those who wish to spread a religion are simply "bad actors".
To put it as succinctly as I can: A particular religious system stands for exactly what it is practically used for. Sometimes it's used for great things, like helping the destitute and spreading knowledge. Other times it's used for horrible things, like war and justification of xenophobia. Religion is neither inherently good or bad, but we must accept that its practical effects are good and bad, because its non-practical uses have little to no effect on the world at large.
I think we're splitting hairs. I simply said religion is about spirituality and I think the rest of your point attributes negativity to religion that it shouldn't have, because if you attach blame...
I think we're splitting hairs. I simply said religion is about spirituality and I think the rest of your point attributes negativity to religion that it shouldn't have, because if you attach blame for bad actions on "religion" then you're taking blame away from the place where it should be: humans.
Religion is nothing more than yet another example of baser human nature taking something that is potentially beautiful (one's spiritual connection to the world around us) and abusing it to the point that it little resembles the ideals from which it sprang. One can see this with almost every tool or useful creation humans have made, ever; at some point everything is abused mercilessly to kill, steal, cheat, or otherwise harm other people. There's nothing intrinsic to "religion" that makes it bad; the intrinsic badness is within humans.
If there were no religion in the world, we would be just as fucked up as we are right now, we'd just be fucked up about other things.
Reminds me of a quote I heard in Fargo. "The problem isn't that there's evil in the world. The problem is that there's good, because otherwise who'd care?"
If there were no religion in the world, we would be just as fucked up as we are right now, we'd just be fucked up about other things.
Reminds me of a quote I heard in Fargo.
"The problem isn't that there's evil in the world. The problem is that there's good, because otherwise who'd care?"
Not entirely true. Many religions do believe that in order to connect to god, you need to "save" all the non believers and make them believe the same thing you do. They think anyone that isn't...
Not entirely true. Many religions do believe that in order to connect to god, you need to "save" all the non believers and make them believe the same thing you do. They think anyone that isn't like them is going to hell, so it is their moral responsibility to prevent that from happening.
Jews don't believe in heaven or hell at all, so that's why they don't really care about saving others spiritually.
In my experience (being raised in a Jewish community for most of my young life), Jewish communities are very insular. I don’t mean that in a bad way, merely as an observation from someone who grew...
In my experience (being raised in a Jewish community for most of my young life), Jewish communities are very insular.
I don’t mean that in a bad way, merely as an observation from someone who grew up in that community.
Judaism is now and has always been a small, insular religion. I don't think it was ever vast and powerful, except in playing a pivotal role in the formation of Christianity. I'm also not sure I...
Judaism is now and has always been a small, insular religion. I don't think it was ever vast and powerful, except in playing a pivotal role in the formation of Christianity.
I'm also not sure I follow what you're saying - why would they want people to convert out of the religion?
This is very true. Not only does it frown upon conversions, but it has a very negative idea of marrying outside of your tribe, as recent events in Israel demonstrate. The amount of bile espoused...
This is very true. Not only does it frown upon conversions, but it has a very negative idea of marrying outside of your tribe, as recent events in Israel demonstrate. The amount of bile espoused onto anyone who marries a non-jew is astonishing, with one organization in particular, Lehava, making it their mission to make the lives of "assimilated" jews hell, standing outside of their wedding venues and shouting obscenities at them. This is just from last week. More on their leader
Man fundamentalism is a scourge. I grew up that way, and i am surprised only that it took so long for something like this to happen. Also, it's funny how it went like death wish-kicked out of nyc,...
Man fundamentalism is a scourge. I grew up that way, and i am surprised only that it took so long for something like this to happen.
Also, it's funny how it went like death wish-kicked out of nyc, move to Chicago.
Which, from a strategic standpoint, seems very counterintuitive. Judaism was once vast and powerful but now, in terms of numbers, they're one of the smallest religions and are relegated primarily to the US and Israel. You'd think they would want people to convert. Then again I'm neither Jewish nor religious so what do I know.
I mean, the culling of their people didn't really help them in terms of numbers.
Overall, though, you're right. It's sort of like a country that accepts very few immigrants, but has a very high emigration rate -- the economy is bound to be troubled (like any economy, but markedly worse).
You're telling me an entire society can't easily survive being literally decimated in a very short time period? How ridiculous. /s
The point of a religion is to develop your spiritual connection to God, not to engage in some megalomaniacal world domination scheme to make everyone like you.
I mean this as respectfully as absolutely possible: Historically speaking, that does not bear out.
Religions are for spirituality in the same way that computers are for, well, computing. That is their reason to be, but they are often used for other things because people misuse things for their own ends all the time.
The fact that humans abuse everything for power doesn't mean that the reasons those things have to exist are false.
Let me clarify by saying I completely agree with you and @NaraVara that the theoretical point of religion is to bring an individual closer to God, whatever that interpretation may be.
That being said, to deny millenia of practical misuse across multiple different theologies as part of what makes those theologies what they are is pretty disingenuous as far as I can see.
A religion's belief system is exactly what its individuals believe it is. If people who are a part of that belief system repeatedly try to spread its influence, then at some point we (the general we, rather than the specific) must accept that part of modern religion is proselytizing. For example: the mere existence of religious missionaries is the most glaring counterpoint to the argument that those who wish to spread a religion are simply "bad actors".
To put it as succinctly as I can: A particular religious system stands for exactly what it is practically used for. Sometimes it's used for great things, like helping the destitute and spreading knowledge. Other times it's used for horrible things, like war and justification of xenophobia. Religion is neither inherently good or bad, but we must accept that its practical effects are good and bad, because its non-practical uses have little to no effect on the world at large.
I think we're splitting hairs. I simply said religion is about spirituality and I think the rest of your point attributes negativity to religion that it shouldn't have, because if you attach blame for bad actions on "religion" then you're taking blame away from the place where it should be: humans.
Religion is nothing more than yet another example of baser human nature taking something that is potentially beautiful (one's spiritual connection to the world around us) and abusing it to the point that it little resembles the ideals from which it sprang. One can see this with almost every tool or useful creation humans have made, ever; at some point everything is abused mercilessly to kill, steal, cheat, or otherwise harm other people. There's nothing intrinsic to "religion" that makes it bad; the intrinsic badness is within humans.
If there were no religion in the world, we would be just as fucked up as we are right now, we'd just be fucked up about other things.
Reminds me of a quote I heard in Fargo.
"The problem isn't that there's evil in the world. The problem is that there's good, because otherwise who'd care?"
Agree to disagree, then.
Not entirely true. Many religions do believe that in order to connect to god, you need to "save" all the non believers and make them believe the same thing you do. They think anyone that isn't like them is going to hell, so it is their moral responsibility to prevent that from happening.
Jews don't believe in heaven or hell at all, so that's why they don't really care about saving others spiritually.
In my experience (being raised in a Jewish community for most of my young life), Jewish communities are very insular.
I don’t mean that in a bad way, merely as an observation from someone who grew up in that community.
Judaism is now and has always been a small, insular religion. I don't think it was ever vast and powerful, except in playing a pivotal role in the formation of Christianity.
I'm also not sure I follow what you're saying - why would they want people to convert out of the religion?
This is very true. Not only does it frown upon conversions, but it has a very negative idea of marrying outside of your tribe, as recent events in Israel demonstrate. The amount of bile espoused onto anyone who marries a non-jew is astonishing, with one organization in particular, Lehava, making it their mission to make the lives of "assimilated" jews hell, standing outside of their wedding venues and shouting obscenities at them.
This is just from last week. More on their leader
Man fundamentalism is a scourge. I grew up that way, and i am surprised only that it took so long for something like this to happen.
Also, it's funny how it went like death wish-kicked out of nyc, move to Chicago.