About two years ago, I made a comment on Reddit saying Black Widow won't make a compelling main character. She's good as a side character, or in an Avengers-like story – not on her own. The...
About two years ago, I made a comment on Reddit saying Black Widow won't make a compelling main character. She's good as a side character, or in an Avengers-like story – not on her own. The trailer does nothing to dispell my skepticism.
Also, what's with the fucking accents? Her family's Russian, and she speaks perfect English, but the rest of the fuckers can't be bothered?
Live in another region long enough and you pick on the mannerisms and dialect even if you don't intend to. My mother in law is English, but she's lived in the US, Texas specifically, for 40 years...
Her family's Russian, and she speaks perfect English, but the rest of the fuckers can't be bothered?
Live in another region long enough and you pick on the mannerisms and dialect even if you don't intend to. My mother in law is English, but she's lived in the US, Texas specifically, for 40 years now; she sounds English until her English family come to visit and then you hear how much she's picked up as it becomes clear one of them is speaking English and the other is speaking Texan English.
There's also the fact that she's a spy, spies have to conceal and change to blend in, a Russian accent while infiltrating anywhere but Russia is a tip off.
I think you're applying too much of that real-life nonsense to low-brow fiction. Here's the thing. My English is so good my university teachers mentioned it. I speak it most of the time online. I...
I think you're applying too much of that real-life nonsense to low-brow fiction.
Here's the thing.
My English is so good my university teachers mentioned it. I speak it most of the time online. I have no problem with the language. Whenever I speak it with someone who I know speaks Russian natively, I do it for fun, or in a company of native English speakers so as to not exclude them, or because the thought I want to express was in English.
I wouldn't speak English with my family even if they were living abroad. No Russian family abroad does – not because they "got used to" speaking it.
If I speak to my family, I wouldn't have a Russian accent on because I wouldn't be speaking any other language.
So my gripe isn't just about the accents, or the inconsistency between the two "sides" of the family. My gripe is with the fact that, in a popular franchise that millions are going to see, including authentic Russian – through a voice-over or otherwise – is too fuckin' avantgarde, even though Xhosa – an African language of a much smaller impact on the audience – was picked up on and praised.
It's the continuous caricaturization of Russian characters to the point where every single character of Russian origin must, by definition, include the accent 'cause otherwise, they might as well be American or something.
But okay. Let's suppose you have to have a Russian accent in the film 'cause... I dunno, moral panic otherwise. Why not hire a Russian actor – someone other than Ilya Volok – to do the job? Or voice-over the actors where using Russian would be appropriate – like, when two Russian family members converse? It would be really fucking strange to have a Marvel film be mostly in Russian, but for some reason, it isn't at all strange to have a Russian family who all but one with an accented English while playing stereotypes of what a Russian might look like.
With respect to your many good points, I think you're expecting too much from what you've already correctly identified as low-brow fiction. When MCU's version of Black Widow is the deepest, most...
With respect to your many good points, I think you're expecting too much from what you've already correctly identified as low-brow fiction. When MCU's version of Black Widow is the deepest, most complex character in the movie, you already know everyone else is going to be a simplified caricature, hence the Russian accents. Audience gets it quickly.
It would certainly be nice if they went to the lengths you described above to better reflect reality—but considering the type of movie this is, it's hard to expect them to do so.
Inclusivity is not a feature. It may be low-brow, but it's incredibly high-production. Marvel makes it shiny and flashy because it wants people to see the film. They want to show their work off....
Inclusivity is not a feature.
It may be low-brow, but it's incredibly high-production. Marvel makes it shiny and flashy because it wants people to see the film. They want to show their work off.
The fact that the work doesn't include authentic representation is what bothers me to no end. And it's not like there's a lack of Russian actors in the US. It's not like getting it right is not possible. They just aren't willing to.
Authenticity is a feature of a film though. It's nice when filmmakers put in the extra effort to make elements of their movie accurate, but it's certainly not a requirement to nail authenticity in...
Authenticity is a feature of a film though. It's nice when filmmakers put in the extra effort to make elements of their movie accurate, but it's certainly not a requirement to nail authenticity in all things to tell a fictional story (nor should it be).
It's not beyond criticism though. I just think realistic expectations are in order, especially for Marvel films.
I think you're failing to understand the expectations of the audience and suspend disbelief that is required of a movie. If your teachers mentioned your English it's because it's not the norm for...
I think you're failing to understand the expectations of the audience and suspend disbelief that is required of a movie.
If your teachers mentioned your English it's because it's not the norm for it to be spoken well. Exceptions are mentioned, the norm is not, thus her family who does not have constant contact with English speakers or training to blend in may not speak it so perfectly.
There's also the fact that you're watching an English language trailer meant for English speaking audiences and you don't actually know what language they are speaking. An example is The Hunt for Red October's transition on screen from Russian to English. It's assumed, via the previously mentioned suspension of disbelief, that foreign individuals speaking in English in their own environments are speaking their own language and it's being translated for the audience. Some films do this based on assumption, some do it on screen, some don't at all and translate via subtitles.
Black Panther was an obvious black power/empowerment superhero movie, Russians aren't exactly disenfranchised, and so Xhosa is expected. Same as Dwayne Johnson's Siva Tau not being done in English in his various movies. Lack of disenfranchisement is also a reason for the lack of Russian actors. Like it or not, if you're white no one listens to you complain about authenticity unless you're white and historically prejudiced against. White Fisher Stevens as Indian Ben Jahveri in Short Circuit wouldn't fly today, but Nick Fury can be the black Samuel L. Jackson, Heimdall can be the black Idris Elba, Shawshank Redemption's Red can be the black Morgan Freeman, Agent J can be the black Will Smith, Eve can be the asian Sandra Oh, Valkyrie can be the black Tessa Thomson, the list goes on and on with the reversal of the historic whitewashing of colored characters.
And if you put your hand further down the hole you pulled this out of, you'll find a piece of paper that says "Asians are famously good at math", "If you're Latino, you've been in a gang, period",...
Like it or not, if you're white no one listens to you complain about authenticity unless you're white and historically prejudiced against.
And if you put your hand further down the hole you pulled this out of, you'll find a piece of paper that says "Asians are famously good at math", "If you're Latino, you've been in a gang, period", and "Blackface is still okay".
What kind of a point are you making here? That it's okay to make two-dimensional characters out of nations as long as you've never encountered them in your lifetime? Are we really going to pull the bar that low?
"People going to theaters don't expect authentic Russians"... Yeah, no.
Huh... Didn't know it was possible to get the exact opposite impression of something, but there you go. Congrats I suppose. And yes, it's perfectly fine to make two-dimensional characters out of...
Huh... Didn't know it was possible to get the exact opposite impression of something, but there you go. Congrats I suppose.
And yes, it's perfectly fine to make two-dimensional characters out of entire nations if it's... oh I don't know...a work of fiction for the entertainment of the masses. Especially if that work is a series of comic book characters that generally have all the depth of a kiddie pool.
It looks like a generic mix of the Mission: Impossible and Bourne series. I’m disappointed but maybe the second trailer will have something to get me more excited.
It looks like a generic mix of the Mission: Impossible and Bourne series.
I’m disappointed but maybe the second trailer will have something to get me more excited.
Well it is a movie about a superhero that has no powers and just has typical cold war era spy backstory. Disney is going to milk the cow they bought until it stops spitting out money, just as they...
Well it is a movie about a superhero that has no powers and just has typical cold war era spy backstory. Disney is going to milk the cow they bought until it stops spitting out money, just as they are with Star Wars.
Kinda generic trailer, but the production values on the new Fast and Furious movie looks remarkable.
About two years ago, I made a comment on Reddit saying Black Widow won't make a compelling main character. She's good as a side character, or in an Avengers-like story – not on her own. The trailer does nothing to dispell my skepticism.
Also, what's with the fucking accents? Her family's Russian, and she speaks perfect English, but the rest of the fuckers can't be bothered?
Live in another region long enough and you pick on the mannerisms and dialect even if you don't intend to. My mother in law is English, but she's lived in the US, Texas specifically, for 40 years now; she sounds English until her English family come to visit and then you hear how much she's picked up as it becomes clear one of them is speaking English and the other is speaking Texan English.
There's also the fact that she's a spy, spies have to conceal and change to blend in, a Russian accent while infiltrating anywhere but Russia is a tip off.
/end suspension of disbelief mini-rant
I think you're applying too much of that real-life nonsense to low-brow fiction.
Here's the thing.
My English is so good my university teachers mentioned it. I speak it most of the time online. I have no problem with the language. Whenever I speak it with someone who I know speaks Russian natively, I do it for fun, or in a company of native English speakers so as to not exclude them, or because the thought I want to express was in English.
I wouldn't speak English with my family even if they were living abroad. No Russian family abroad does – not because they "got used to" speaking it.
If I speak to my family, I wouldn't have a Russian accent on because I wouldn't be speaking any other language.
So my gripe isn't just about the accents, or the inconsistency between the two "sides" of the family. My gripe is with the fact that, in a popular franchise that millions are going to see, including authentic Russian – through a voice-over or otherwise – is too fuckin' avantgarde, even though Xhosa – an African language of a much smaller impact on the audience – was picked up on and praised.
It's the continuous caricaturization of Russian characters to the point where every single character of Russian origin must, by definition, include the accent 'cause otherwise, they might as well be American or something.
But okay. Let's suppose you have to have a Russian accent in the film 'cause... I dunno, moral panic otherwise. Why not hire a Russian actor – someone other than Ilya Volok – to do the job? Or voice-over the actors where using Russian would be appropriate – like, when two Russian family members converse? It would be really fucking strange to have a Marvel film be mostly in Russian, but for some reason, it isn't at all strange to have a Russian family who all but one with an accented English while playing stereotypes of what a Russian might look like.
With respect to your many good points, I think you're expecting too much from what you've already correctly identified as low-brow fiction. When MCU's version of Black Widow is the deepest, most complex character in the movie, you already know everyone else is going to be a simplified caricature, hence the Russian accents. Audience gets it quickly.
It would certainly be nice if they went to the lengths you described above to better reflect reality—but considering the type of movie this is, it's hard to expect them to do so.
Inclusivity is not a feature.
It may be low-brow, but it's incredibly high-production. Marvel makes it shiny and flashy because it wants people to see the film. They want to show their work off.
The fact that the work doesn't include authentic representation is what bothers me to no end. And it's not like there's a lack of Russian actors in the US. It's not like getting it right is not possible. They just aren't willing to.
That's what's fucking' gets to me.
Authenticity is a feature of a film though. It's nice when filmmakers put in the extra effort to make elements of their movie accurate, but it's certainly not a requirement to nail authenticity in all things to tell a fictional story (nor should it be).
It's not beyond criticism though. I just think realistic expectations are in order, especially for Marvel films.
I think you're failing to understand the expectations of the audience and suspend disbelief that is required of a movie.
If your teachers mentioned your English it's because it's not the norm for it to be spoken well. Exceptions are mentioned, the norm is not, thus her family who does not have constant contact with English speakers or training to blend in may not speak it so perfectly.
There's also the fact that you're watching an English language trailer meant for English speaking audiences and you don't actually know what language they are speaking. An example is The Hunt for Red October's transition on screen from Russian to English. It's assumed, via the previously mentioned suspension of disbelief, that foreign individuals speaking in English in their own environments are speaking their own language and it's being translated for the audience. Some films do this based on assumption, some do it on screen, some don't at all and translate via subtitles.
Black Panther was an obvious black power/empowerment superhero movie, Russians aren't exactly disenfranchised, and so Xhosa is expected. Same as Dwayne Johnson's Siva Tau not being done in English in his various movies. Lack of disenfranchisement is also a reason for the lack of Russian actors. Like it or not, if you're white no one listens to you complain about authenticity unless you're white and historically prejudiced against. White Fisher Stevens as Indian Ben Jahveri in Short Circuit wouldn't fly today, but Nick Fury can be the black Samuel L. Jackson, Heimdall can be the black Idris Elba, Shawshank Redemption's Red can be the black Morgan Freeman, Agent J can be the black Will Smith, Eve can be the asian Sandra Oh, Valkyrie can be the black Tessa Thomson, the list goes on and on with the reversal of the historic whitewashing of colored characters.
And if you put your hand further down the hole you pulled this out of, you'll find a piece of paper that says "Asians are famously good at math", "If you're Latino, you've been in a gang, period", and "Blackface is still okay".
What kind of a point are you making here? That it's okay to make two-dimensional characters out of nations as long as you've never encountered them in your lifetime? Are we really going to pull the bar that low?
"People going to theaters don't expect authentic Russians"... Yeah, no.
Huh... Didn't know it was possible to get the exact opposite impression of something, but there you go. Congrats I suppose.
And yes, it's perfectly fine to make two-dimensional characters out of entire nations if it's... oh I don't know... a work of fiction for the entertainment of the masses. Especially if that work is a series of comic book characters that generally have all the depth of a kiddie pool.
It looks like a generic mix of the Mission: Impossible and Bourne series.
I’m disappointed but maybe the second trailer will have something to get me more excited.
Well it is a movie about a superhero that has no powers and just has typical cold war era spy backstory. Disney is going to milk the cow they bought until it stops spitting out money, just as they are with Star Wars.
It could be that Taskmaster looks a bit too much like Moon Knight, who is getting his own show.