Even here on Tildes, a reminder is needed on things to keep in mind as this story develops: https://www.wnyc.org/story/breaking-news-consumers-handbook-pdf/
Reports from CNN are saying they also intercepted a package that was addressed to the white house. https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/politics/bill-clinton-hillary-clinton-chappaqua/index.html I'm...
Reports from CNN are saying they also intercepted a package that was addressed to the white house.
Secret service misspoke originally from what I understand. The Clinton's package was intercepted by the same service that screens WH packages hence confusion.
Secret service misspoke originally from what I understand. The Clinton's package was intercepted by the same service that screens WH packages hence confusion.
Well it just happens to be a bunch of people the alt-right hates, and the WH. The one sent to the WH was probably meant to make it seem not partisan (and maybe try to hit the "deep state" actors),...
Well it just happens to be a bunch of people the alt-right hates, and the WH. The one sent to the WH was probably meant to make it seem not partisan (and maybe try to hit the "deep state" actors), but I'm not convinced.
Or you could see it as all people the extreme left-wing hate? The ideology of the people who sent them doesn't really matter though does it? Our opinions are not invalidated by an idiot sending...
Or you could see it as all people the extreme left-wing hate?
The ideology of the people who sent them doesn't really matter though does it? Our opinions are not invalidated by an idiot sending bombs if they agree or disagree with us. The important thing about them is that they're an idiot sending bombs not which revolutionary songs they're singing whilst they mail it.
It does. You can't dismantle a terrorist operation without understanding it first. Even if it was a lone terrorist, understanding the ideology they are subscribing to helps you to educate others...
The ideology of the people who sent them doesn't really matter though does it?
It does. You can't dismantle a terrorist operation without understanding it first. Even if it was a lone terrorist, understanding the ideology they are subscribing to helps you to educate others against it to reduce the likelihood that this kind of behavior happens again by eliminating echo chambers which can help to spread this message.
This reply makes zero sense to me in the context of your other message which I was replying to. Are you attempting to dismantle a terrorist organization by understanding it? Or are you just...
This reply makes zero sense to me in the context of your other message which I was replying to.
Are you attempting to dismantle a terrorist organization by understanding it? Or are you just suggesting people assume this was carried out by the Alt-Right to score points? I suspect you're correct, I don't see any value jumping to this conclusion when we'll no doubt have more information in time.
Even if you are correct terrorist attacks should not invalidate ideological arguments else you truly are creating a fantastic incentive for false flag attacks.
Hypothesizing at this point. We don't know a whole lot, but I'm making an educated guess here. Absolutely. No one was suggesting this. However, the alt-right have their own term because they're...
Are you attempting to dismantle a terrorist organization by understanding it?
Hypothesizing at this point. We don't know a whole lot, but I'm making an educated guess here.
Even if you are correct terrorist attacks should not invalidate ideological arguments
Absolutely. No one was suggesting this. However, the alt-right have their own term because they're not just conservative. We made the distinction to give them their own name because many of them hold beliefs that are hateful and violent and we want to distinguish them from other conservatives for this dangerous viewpoint.
While the White House bomb being some sort of deception is possible, I think people have gotten to quick to jump to concluding that "any thing wrong done with justification for what I like is a...
While the White House bomb being some sort of deception is possible, I think people have gotten to quick to jump to concluding that "any thing wrong done with justification for what I like is a false flag." As for the ideology of the attacker, it doesn't have to be fully explained as by the left-right axis. Yes, the left-right comparison is certainly useful and quite accurate for considering large populations, but any single person is going to have their own ideas and opinions that can be different than any position on such an axis. While many of the known targets would seem to link to far-right thinking, is it so hard to imagine that they are also dissatisfied with (what they believe) is at the White House?
You're right, but we still refer to an al qaeda terrorist as an al qaeda terrorist regardless whether his beliefs align with the majority of other al qaeda terrorists. It's important to know where...
As for the ideology of the attacker, it doesn't have to be fully explained as by the left-right axis.
You're right, but we still refer to an al qaeda terrorist as an al qaeda terrorist regardless whether his beliefs align with the majority of other al qaeda terrorists.
It's important to know where they come from and how they get indoctrinated to target education and reform programs.
is it so hard to imagine that they are also dissatisfied with (what they believe) is at the White House?
I never said they couldn't be and even gave an example where they were not in parentheses.
I've been chatting with a few buddies and that's basically their thought too, especially because it's well known the amount of screening that goes on with the White House so it's pretty obvious...
I've been chatting with a few buddies and that's basically their thought too, especially because it's well known the amount of screening that goes on with the White House so it's pretty obvious that something mailed would never make it.
That said, I kind of hate that when an instance like this happens we immediately jump to left vs right instead of us (as a country) vs them.
The only reason I'm jumping to left vs. right is because all the targets are boogeymen to the alt-right. There's a clear motivation here. Do I think this person is representative of the alt-right?...
The only reason I'm jumping to left vs. right is because all the targets are boogeymen to the alt-right. There's a clear motivation here.
Do I think this person is representative of the alt-right? No. Even within their own ranks they are an extremist.
But it's foolish to discount the stronger and stronger rhetoric we've been having as a nation in political discussions. We need to start de-escalating now if we want to fix things anytime soon.
I'm not accusing you of anything, don't worry, it was more just of a generalization of our situation in general. Of course at the same time every (or nearly every) act of terrorism/hate is almost...
I'm not accusing you of anything, don't worry, it was more just of a generalization of our situation in general.
Of course at the same time every (or nearly every) act of terrorism/hate is almost always a case of us vs them, so there's not a whole lot different here by saying left vs right.
The CNN device was discovered in the mailroom around 9 a.m. and was addressed to former CIA Director John Brennan, CNN reported. Brennan, a contributor for NBC and MSNBC, does not for work for CNN. Time Warner Center also contains other offices, a Whole Foods supermarket and several high-end retail shops and restaurants, including Masa and Per Se.
What really scares me about this is the fact that all the bombs are said to be similar. I hope this pattern doesn't continue.
Two explosive devices were found in mail sent to the offices of former President Barack Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the Secret Service said Wednesday.
The devices were similar to one found on Monday at the home of the billionaire philanthropist George Soros, two law enforcement officials said.
In a statement, the Secret Service said it “has intercepted two suspicious packages addressed to Secret Service protectees,” who were identified as Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama.
The device addressed to Mrs. Clinton in Westchester County was found late on Tuesday by a Secret Service technician who screens mail for her office, the statement said. The package addressed to Mr. Obama was intercepted by Secret Service personnel in Washington DC early on Wednesday.
“The packages were immediately identified during routine mail screening procedures as potential explosive devices and were appropriately handled as such,” the statement said. “The protectees did not receive the packages nor were they at risk of receiving them.”
The statement said the agency had “initiated a full scope criminal investigation that will leverage all available federal, state, and local resources to determine the source of the packages and identify those responsible.”
Mr. Soros’s home is in a suburb north of New York City. That device was constructed from a length of pipe about six inches long filled with explosive powder, and it was “proactively detonated” by bomb squad technicians, according to one of the officials, all of whom were briefed on the investigation.
The motive of the would-be Soros bomber or bombers remained unclear, one of the officials said, adding that there had not yet been any claim of responsibility.
Mr. Soros, who made his fortune in finance and is now a full-time philanthropist and political activist, is often a subject of the ire of right-wing groups. In recent days, some have falsely speculated that he funded a caravan of migrants moving north in Mexico.
What really scares me about this is the fact that all the bombs are said to be similar. I hope this pattern doesn't continue.
The fact that they sent these bombs through the mail makes it much more likely that the sender will be caught, though that's not much consolation to the fact that some people are willing to...
The fact that they sent these bombs through the mail makes it much more likely that the sender will be caught, though that's not much consolation to the fact that some people are willing to actually send mail bombs to their political enemies. I'm sure it's not going to be long before people start claiming this is a false flag.
I hope whoever did this gets locked away for many years.
Edit 2: Another mailbomb was intercepted en route to the White House. The TWC center in NYC, which houses CNN's main offices, had a bomb successfully delivered to it. Source
Edit 3: The Secret Service's spokesperson misspoke. There was no bomb addressed to the White House. The Clinton & Obama bombs were intercepted at same facility that also happens to screen White House mail.
I really wouldn't be surprised if it were a false flag perpetrated by people like Putin who want to cause chaos in the United States. If some prominent Republicans receive some as well, then that...
I really wouldn't be surprised if it were a false flag perpetrated by people like Putin who want to cause chaos in the United States. If some prominent Republicans receive some as well, then that would be my guess as to who is ultimately behind it.
Everyones screaming right-wing terrorists and false flags, but with the recent KNOWN attempts at destabilizing the political climate in the US, doesn't it seem a little more likely a third party...
Everyones screaming right-wing terrorists and false flags, but with the recent KNOWN attempts at destabilizing the political climate in the US, doesn't it seem a little more likely a third party wanted to use this as another opportunity to keep widening the political divide?
I understand the thought—I'm always on the lookout for bad-faith actors and such—but it's not exactly difficult to believe that the President's violent rhetoric pushed someone to do this. To my...
I understand the thought—I'm always on the lookout for bad-faith actors and such—but it's not exactly difficult to believe that the President's violent rhetoric pushed someone to do this. To my knowledge he's spoken in such a manner of all the individuals and entities targeted over the past few days.
There's a precedence for Right-Wing terror attacks here, the biggest name having killed 168 and injuring nearly 700 in the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing. It's not much of a stretch to think that an angry person, feeding off the violent speech of our President, would mail extremely amateurish pipe-bombs to the Right-Wing's figurative hit-list.
It doesn't take a genius to pour some powder in a pipe, but it takes more than that to sway the public.
Watch out though, yelling at the people responsible for creating the media and political environment that encourages this radical violence is going to turn off moderates.
Watch out though, yelling at the people responsible for creating the media and political environment that encourages this radical violence is going to turn off moderates.
I mean... can you really rule it out? It's not like we have any real information at this early stage. Jumping to conclusions right away is what got us into Iraq after all. Not saying it is a...
I mean... can you really rule it out? It's not like we have any real information at this early stage. Jumping to conclusions right away is what got us into Iraq after all.
Not saying it is a left-wing false flag. But it could be a false flag by another group.
This is positively fascinating, in light of its possible ramifications. I am tempted towards all sorts of speculation but there's simply no telling as yet what the truth will be beneath all the...
This is positively fascinating, in light of its possible ramifications. I am tempted towards all sorts of speculation but there's simply no telling as yet what the truth will be beneath all the intrigue. Whatever the truth may be, don't let this be another wedge driven between us and our fellow Americans. Although the divisions are already dire, we are all one human family, every person on the planet. I hope we all can remember that someday soon. Where there is life there is hope.
I agree. Just as long as you don't think we're going to just walk to a new society. The only way to get to a new society is to make this society into a different society.
I agree. Just as long as you don't think we're going to just walk to a new society. The only way to get to a new society is to make this society into a different society.
I have been seriously thinking about getting a sailboat and leaving it all behind. That's about as far from society as you can get on planet earth. I just need to somehow find 15k-25k/year of...
I have been seriously thinking about getting a sailboat and leaving it all behind. That's about as far from society as you can get on planet earth. I just need to somehow find 15k-25k/year of residual income to keep it going.
The American empire is undeniably crumbling. But the collapse of the hegemony doesn't mean we at base of society have to wait for that to happen before we act. In fact the less we do now while the...
The American empire is undeniably crumbling. But the collapse of the hegemony doesn't mean we at base of society have to wait for that to happen before we act.
In fact the less we do now while the thing is crumbling the worse. When you trip and fall you stick you arms out or try to protect your head. You don't move the Canada and say, devil may come for the people who were too poor to leave.
The whole "move to canada" thing reeks of privilege and wealth to me.
Ahhh I took "moving North" euphemistically. Can't say I have a rebuttal for any of these points you make here. I'm hoping that direct action can have some impact. Either by voting with...
Ahhh I took "moving North" euphemistically.
Can't say I have a rebuttal for any of these points you make here. I'm hoping that direct action can have some impact. Either by voting with wallet/ballot or by agitation, disruption, and demonstration.
Even here on Tildes, a reminder is needed on things to keep in mind as this story develops:
https://www.wnyc.org/story/breaking-news-consumers-handbook-pdf/
This is great, thanks! Love OTM, they really help illuminate our media.
Reports from CNN are saying they also intercepted a package that was addressed to the white house.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/politics/bill-clinton-hillary-clinton-chappaqua/index.html
I'm still not 100% sure what my thoughts are, but someone trying to mail bombs to prominent political figures really isn't good.
Secret Service says no White House package:
https://twitter.com/SecretService/status/1055113750544633861
Interesting. Wonder where the report originally came from.
Secret service misspoke originally from what I understand. The Clinton's package was intercepted by the same service that screens WH packages hence confusion.
Well it just happens to be a bunch of people the alt-right hates, and the WH. The one sent to the WH was probably meant to make it seem not partisan (and maybe try to hit the "deep state" actors), but I'm not convinced.
Or you could see it as all people the extreme left-wing hate?
The ideology of the people who sent them doesn't really matter though does it? Our opinions are not invalidated by an idiot sending bombs if they agree or disagree with us. The important thing about them is that they're an idiot sending bombs not which revolutionary songs they're singing whilst they mail it.
It does. You can't dismantle a terrorist operation without understanding it first. Even if it was a lone terrorist, understanding the ideology they are subscribing to helps you to educate others against it to reduce the likelihood that this kind of behavior happens again by eliminating echo chambers which can help to spread this message.
This reply makes zero sense to me in the context of your other message which I was replying to.
Are you attempting to dismantle a terrorist organization by understanding it? Or are you just suggesting people assume this was carried out by the Alt-Right to score points? I suspect you're correct, I don't see any value jumping to this conclusion when we'll no doubt have more information in time.
Even if you are correct terrorist attacks should not invalidate ideological arguments else you truly are creating a fantastic incentive for false flag attacks.
Hypothesizing at this point. We don't know a whole lot, but I'm making an educated guess here.
Absolutely. No one was suggesting this. However, the alt-right have their own term because they're not just conservative. We made the distinction to give them their own name because many of them hold beliefs that are hateful and violent and we want to distinguish them from other conservatives for this dangerous viewpoint.
While the White House bomb being some sort of deception is possible, I think people have gotten to quick to jump to concluding that "any thing wrong done with justification for what I like is a false flag." As for the ideology of the attacker, it doesn't have to be fully explained as by the left-right axis. Yes, the left-right comparison is certainly useful and quite accurate for considering large populations, but any single person is going to have their own ideas and opinions that can be different than any position on such an axis. While many of the known targets would seem to link to far-right thinking, is it so hard to imagine that they are also dissatisfied with (what they believe) is at the White House?
You're right, but we still refer to an al qaeda terrorist as an al qaeda terrorist regardless whether his beliefs align with the majority of other al qaeda terrorists.
It's important to know where they come from and how they get indoctrinated to target education and reform programs.
I never said they couldn't be and even gave an example where they were not in parentheses.
I've been chatting with a few buddies and that's basically their thought too, especially because it's well known the amount of screening that goes on with the White House so it's pretty obvious that something mailed would never make it.
That said, I kind of hate that when an instance like this happens we immediately jump to left vs right instead of us (as a country) vs them.
The only reason I'm jumping to left vs. right is because all the targets are boogeymen to the alt-right. There's a clear motivation here.
Do I think this person is representative of the alt-right? No. Even within their own ranks they are an extremist.
But it's foolish to discount the stronger and stronger rhetoric we've been having as a nation in political discussions. We need to start de-escalating now if we want to fix things anytime soon.
I'm not accusing you of anything, don't worry, it was more just of a generalization of our situation in general.
Of course at the same time every (or nearly every) act of terrorism/hate is almost always a case of us vs them, so there's not a whole lot different here by saying left vs right.
And now CNN headquarters is evacuated as well.
CNN New York Headquarters Evacuated Due To ‘Suspicious Package’
What really scares me about this is the fact that all the bombs are said to be similar. I hope this pattern doesn't continue.
The fact that they sent these bombs through the mail makes it much more likely that the sender will be caught, though that's not much consolation to the fact that some people are willing to actually send mail bombs to their political enemies. I'm sure it's not going to be long before people start claiming this is a false flag.
I hope whoever did this gets locked away for many years.
Edit: r/The_Donald and r/Conspiracy are calling false flag already. Valuable discussion, folks. /new on r/The_Donald currently has 6 posts making fun of or calling false flag on this.
Edit 2: Another mailbomb was intercepted en route to the White House. The TWC center in NYC, which houses CNN's main offices, had a bomb successfully delivered to it. Source
Edit 3: The Secret Service's spokesperson misspoke. There was no bomb addressed to the White House. The Clinton & Obama bombs were intercepted at same facility that also happens to screen White House mail.
I really wouldn't be surprised if it were a false flag perpetrated by people like Putin who want to cause chaos in the United States. If some prominent Republicans receive some as well, then that would be my guess as to who is ultimately behind it.
at this point, i'm just looking forward to the inevitable politically motivated terrorist attack next year since people insist on upping the ante.
Everyones screaming right-wing terrorists and false flags, but with the recent KNOWN attempts at destabilizing the political climate in the US, doesn't it seem a little more likely a third party wanted to use this as another opportunity to keep widening the political divide?
I understand the thought—I'm always on the lookout for bad-faith actors and such—but it's not exactly difficult to believe that the President's violent rhetoric pushed someone to do this. To my knowledge he's spoken in such a manner of all the individuals and entities targeted over the past few days.
There's a precedence for Right-Wing terror attacks here, the biggest name having killed 168 and injuring nearly 700 in the 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing. It's not much of a stretch to think that an angry person, feeding off the violent speech of our President, would mail extremely amateurish pipe-bombs to the Right-Wing's figurative hit-list.
It doesn't take a genius to pour some powder in a pipe, but it takes more than that to sway the public.
Here's the official FBI statement: https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-on-the-fbis-investigation-of-suspicious-packages
Watch out though, yelling at the people responsible for creating the media and political environment that encourages this radical violence is going to turn off moderates.
My Republican friends are claiming it's a "false flag" operation by the Democrats...
I wouldn't rule out a false flag just yet, but it wouldn't likely be the Dems behind it.
I mean... can you really rule it out? It's not like we have any real information at this early stage. Jumping to conclusions right away is what got us into Iraq after all.
Not saying it is a left-wing false flag. But it could be a false flag by another group.
This is positively fascinating, in light of its possible ramifications. I am tempted towards all sorts of speculation but there's simply no telling as yet what the truth will be beneath all the intrigue. Whatever the truth may be, don't let this be another wedge driven between us and our fellow Americans. Although the divisions are already dire, we are all one human family, every person on the planet. I hope we all can remember that someday soon. Where there is life there is hope.
Why is the Deep State Secret Service attempting to impede this valuable conversation?
I agree. Just as long as you don't think we're going to just walk to a new society. The only way to get to a new society is to make this society into a different society.
I have been seriously thinking about getting a sailboat and leaving it all behind. That's about as far from society as you can get on planet earth. I just need to somehow find 15k-25k/year of residual income to keep it going.
The American empire is undeniably crumbling. But the collapse of the hegemony doesn't mean we at base of society have to wait for that to happen before we act.
In fact the less we do now while the thing is crumbling the worse. When you trip and fall you stick you arms out or try to protect your head. You don't move the Canada and say, devil may come for the people who were too poor to leave.
The whole "move to canada" thing reeks of privilege and wealth to me.
Ahhh I took "moving North" euphemistically.
Can't say I have a rebuttal for any of these points you make here. I'm hoping that direct action can have some impact. Either by voting with wallet/ballot or by agitation, disruption, and demonstration.