27 votes

Impeachment witness Alexander Vindman fired from the White House

25 comments

  1. [5]
    suspended
    Link
    Please, nominate Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman for the JFK Profiles in Courage award. A nomination can be submitted here:...

    Please, nominate Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman for the JFK Profiles in Courage award. A nomination can be submitted here:

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/events-and-awards/profile-in-courage-award/submit-a-nomination

    18 votes
    1. [4]
      gpl
      Link Parent
      I believe the recipient of that award must be an elected official, which Lt. Col. Vindman is not.

      I believe the recipient of that award must be an elected official, which Lt. Col. Vindman is not.

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        suspended
        Link Parent
        Source

        Individuals at all levels of government—federal, state and local—are eligible for the award.

        Source

        4 votes
        1. gpl
          Link Parent
          Is what I based my statement on, from the same page immediately preceding the criteria you quoted. Looking at past years however it looks like at least some non-elected officials have won (most...

          Ordinarily, the award will be made to living Americans who are or were elected officials.

          Is what I based my statement on, from the same page immediately preceding the criteria you quoted. Looking at past years however it looks like at least some non-elected officials have won (most judges and ambassadors), so perhaps it is possible after all.

          2 votes
      2. patience_limited
        Link Parent
        I've confirmed that officials in non-elected government posts have previously received the award, e.g. FDIC Chair Sheila Bair, for warning of structural banking instabilities prior to the 2008...

        I've confirmed that officials in non-elected government posts have previously received the award, e.g. FDIC Chair Sheila Bair, for warning of structural banking instabilities prior to the 2008 crash.

        I really like this idea, and made my nomination submission.

        3 votes
  2. [19]
    Omnicrola
    Link
    If it didn't feel like we're living in an authoritarian state before, it sure as fuck does now. And it's probably only going to get worse.

    If it didn't feel like we're living in an authoritarian state before, it sure as fuck does now. And it's probably only going to get worse.

    9 votes
    1. [18]
      ThatFanficGuy
      Link Parent
      The US is not an authoritarian state, but if shit like this keeps getting let go of unchecked, it will become one very quickly. For what it's worth, I have much hope for the country still, 'cause...

      The US is not an authoritarian state, but if shit like this keeps getting let go of unchecked, it will become one very quickly. For what it's worth, I have much hope for the country still, 'cause people aren't apathetic just yet.

      Russia says hello, by the way.

      10 votes
      1. [6]
        Adys
        Link Parent
        They really are. A portion of the population isn't, but it's not looking good. If Trump gets re-elected, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything.

        people aren't apathetic just yet.

        They really are. A portion of the population isn't, but it's not looking good.
        If Trump gets re-elected, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything.

        10 votes
        1. [5]
          teaearlgraycold
          Link Parent
          Is it wrong to leave the country once things get so bad they start affecting me? I don't want to become the subject of "First they came..." but I have the mobility and finances to transplant...

          Is it wrong to leave the country once things get so bad they start affecting me? I don't want to become the subject of "First they came..." but I have the mobility and finances to transplant myself pretty much anywhere in the world.

          I wonder if I'm need to fight for democracy as much as I can or if simply not being a bad actor and voting for progressive candidates is enough to spare my conscience.

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            Kuromantis
            Link Parent
            Personally I see it as if the United States falls to authoritarianism, no one will be able to fight authoritarianism anymore. The only democracies left will be in Europe and they won't be able to...

            Personally I see it as if the United States falls to authoritarianism, no one will be able to fight authoritarianism anymore. The only democracies left will be in Europe and they won't be able to fight the US alone because the US and others alone because the US is too powerful. Northern Europe (Germany, Sweden, Norway, etc.) will turn into the last fortresses of democracy and will fight a war of attrition until they fall due to economic and eventually political influence which will make democracy gone for good until civil war becomes a serious alternative to the status quo, which, given the Internet, will become even more difficult to seriously attempt.

            6 votes
            1. [2]
              Loire
              Link Parent
              One thing to consider is that, even when the U.S. falls to authoritarianism, rival nations are not suddenly going to become friends. The American Empire will still be opposed by Russian and...

              One thing to consider is that, even when the U.S. falls to authoritarianism, rival nations are not suddenly going to become friends. The American Empire will still be opposed by Russian and Chinese interests. Europe won't have to fight the U.S. "alone", it juat won't be explicitly aligned with America's other enemies.

              2 votes
              1. Kuromantis
                Link Parent
                Yeah but I'm not talking about whether the U.S, Russia or China will dominate, I'm talking about whether democracy will remain. Dictatorships/monarchies can cooperate to remove things if they go...

                Yeah but I'm not talking about whether the U.S, Russia or China will dominate, I'm talking about whether democracy will remain. Dictatorships/monarchies can cooperate to remove things if they go against the interests of everyone involved, even if they go back to fighting literally the next day. European democracy certainly sounds like one such thing in an potential future where all global powers are dictatorships.

                1 vote
          2. Adys
            Link Parent
            I don't think it's wrong. You're voting with your feet after all.

            I don't think it's wrong. You're voting with your feet after all.

            1 vote
      2. Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        Right, to be clear, I don't think it is, it just feels more like it is (to me) than it did previously. I still have hope to, I'm going to try to do what I can to get Trump out in November. Things...

        Right, to be clear, I don't think it is, it just feels more like it is (to me) than it did previously.

        I still have hope to, I'm going to try to do what I can to get Trump out in November. Things like this only increase my determination.

        6 votes
      3. wakamex
        Link Parent
        I think apathy is already widespread. look at the low voter turnout. look at how many people still blindly support trump, and call out reasonable arguments against him as Trump Derangement...

        I think apathy is already widespread. look at the low voter turnout. look at how many people still blindly support trump, and call out reasonable arguments against him as Trump Derangement Syndrome because calling out an authoritarian takeover happening before your eyes sounds so farfetched to his supporters that ignore basic facts and continue pushing narratives that have already been discredit, even by Republican Senators. that's rampant apathy.

        lack of caring for the truth. politics has turned into a game of supporting your local team, no matter what, because people tie their identities to a certain camp, irrespective of any policies or political beliefs. it's just their camp. that's apathy.

        unwillingness to properly engage with the democratic process, as would be required to stave off this decline into authoritarianism. that's not going away.

        4 votes
      4. [2]
        Kuromantis
        Link Parent
        Does any of this remind you of your government? What was it like for you as a Russian to see his election? How was it portrayed by Russian media?

        Russia says hello, by the way.

        Does any of this remind you of your government? What was it like for you as a Russian to see his election? How was it portrayed by Russian media?

        3 votes
        1. ThatFanficGuy
          Link Parent
          In a roundabout way. You see, Putin's smarter than Trump. More cunning. Putin does all the same stupid shit, but his experience in the KGB and his wits allow him to actually make these plans into...

          Does any of this remind you of your government?

          In a roundabout way.

          You see, Putin's smarter than Trump. More cunning. Putin does all the same stupid shit, but his experience in the KGB and his wits allow him to actually make these plans into reality. Yes, those plans are full of glaring errors. Yes, Putin isn't exactly a political mastermind. But, he is significantly more effective at the same shit Trump's trying to pull seemingly every day.

          Also, Putin's already established control over his cabinet and his country. He doesn't need to pull the same shit Trump's trying to, because Russia is already under Putin's thumb, whether we like it or not. The fact that his appeal to change the Russian Constitution has some internal traction says something about the political state of it. (That said, I saw the graffiti saying "No to Constitution Swapping" on my way to my parents' house rather recently. It was painted over the next week. Not all is lost, clearly: that graffiti is just the tip of the iceberg of the brewing discontent.)

          What was it like for you as a Russian to see his election?

          I'm assuming you mean Trump's election.

          My story's a little different from an average Russian's. An average Russian – and yes, I'm painting with a broad brush here, hear me out – is someone who watches TV and believes the propaganda they're being exposed to on a daily basis. They believe Trump is an ally to Russia, because that's what the TV says. The TV says anyone attacking Trump is wrong, and Trump is masterfully navigating the hostile politics of the Evil West™... yadda yadda yadda.

          Me? I've been rooting for the US since as long as I remember. It's not my country, but I love it so much from way over here. I want to be there, I want to see it prosper, I may even want to live there despite all the bullshit that's going on with the rampant capitalism.

          I was watching the election results live in-between university classes. Trump's victory was announced five minutes before the next class. I was disappointed, upset, and immediately exhausted – so I skipped the class, 'cause that shit was too much.

          How was it portrayed by Russian media?

          At the time? I don't know. I stopped paying attention to the Russian media a long time ago, and on the election day the thought of checking in with them never crossed my mind.

          The only glimpses of it I get is when I visit my parents, who are both, to varying degree, nationalist and absorbed by the propaganda. Those glimpses, like I said above, are affirmative and defensive of Trump.

          I would like to note, however, that the tone I'm getting from the state-owned news outlets is eerily similar to that of Fox News. Similar points, similar rhetoric, similar offended and aggressive tone. In fact, John Oliver has already covered this in the episode The Trump Presidency of Last Week Tonight.

          14 votes
      5. [7]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        The thing to watch for from a rule-of-law perspective is if you see the courts being ignored. I don't see signs of that? Due to Trump's appointments, the courts are probably becoming more...

        The thing to watch for from a rule-of-law perspective is if you see the courts being ignored. I don't see signs of that? Due to Trump's appointments, the courts are probably becoming more conservative but that's a slow change and different from a breakdown in authority.

        2 votes
        1. [4]
          patience_limited
          Link Parent
          There've been numerous court orders violated concerning immigration, protest, FOIA, and environmental issues. It's been happening practically since the first day in office. Then there's the whole...

          There've been numerous court orders violated concerning immigration, protest, FOIA, and environmental issues. It's been happening practically since the first day in office.

          Then there's the whole assassination of a foreign government official in broad daylight, which is about as lawless as it gets - an act of war in violation of Constitutional requirements for Congressional authorization. Not the first President to go around Congress this way, but certainly the most blatant act.

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            skybrian
            Link Parent
            Hmm. Some links or at least specific search keywords would be useful for understanding which events you're referring to.

            Hmm. Some links or at least specific search keywords would be useful for understanding which events you're referring to.

            2 votes
            1. [2]
              patience_limited
              Link Parent
              Google on "Trump administration [subject area] court order violations" and it's easy to come up with examples like this and this. I don't want to stray too far from the main topic, so we can start...

              Google on "Trump administration [subject area] court order violations" and it's easy to come up with examples like this and this.

              I don't want to stray too far from the main topic, so we can start a separate thread on democratic decline in the U.S. if it wouldn't reduce many of us to tears.

              3 votes
              1. skybrian
                Link Parent
                Okay, I started another topic based on an article I read recently.

                Okay, I started another topic based on an article I read recently.

                2 votes
        2. [2]
          Kuromantis
          Link Parent
          I'm not sure they need to.
          1. skybrian
            Link Parent
            There is a difference. Assuming that conservative judges are still judges by temperament and have a basic respect for the law and precedent, having more of them is bad, but not the end of...

            There is a difference. Assuming that conservative judges are still judges by temperament and have a basic respect for the law and precedent, having more of them is bad, but not the end of democracy and the breakdown of civilization.