52 votes

Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney’s speech to World Economic Forum

24 comments

  1. [10]
    chocobean
    Link
    Alt title: Link is the full transcript and video of the English parts of Carney’s speech. There is a French part in the beginning, not sure if these English portion which follows already...

    Alt title:

    Prime Minister Mark Carney gave a forceful speech Tuesday at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, on the “new world order” and how middle powers like Canada can benefit by working together.

    Link is the full transcript and video of the English parts of Carney’s speech. There is a French part in the beginning, not sure if these English portion which follows already translated or skipped.

    Interesting point: some names are omitted, and one proper noun in particular only mentioned once.

    Some quotes:

    In 1978, the Czech dissident Václav Havel, later president, wrote an essay called “The Power of the Powerless,” and in it he asked a simple question: how did the communist system sustain itself?

    And his answer began with a greengrocer.

    Every morning, the shopkeeper places a sign in his window: “Workers of the world unite.” He doesn’t believe in it. No one does. But he places the sign anyway to avoid trouble, to signal compliance, to get along. And because every shopkeeper on every street does the same, the system persists — not through violence alone, but through the participation of ordinary people in rituals they privately know to be false.

    Havel called this living within a lie. The system’s power comes not from its truth, but from everyone’s willingness to perform as if it were true. And its fragility comes from the same source. When even one person stops performing, when the greengrocer removes his sign, the illusion begins to crack.

    Friends, it is time for companies and countries to take their signs down.

    On Arctic sovereignty, we stand firmly with Greenland and Denmark and fully support their unique right to determine Greenland’s future.

    Our view is the middle powers must act together because if we’re not at the table, we’re on the menu.

    But I’d also say that great powers can afford, for now, to go it alone. They have the market size, the military capacity, and the leverage to dictate terms. Middle powers do not. But when we only negotiate bilaterally with a hegemon, we negotiate from weakness. We accept what’s offered. We compete with each other to be the most accommodating.

    This is not sovereignty. It’s the performance of sovereignty while accepting subordination.

    We are taking a sign out of the window.

    We know the old order is not coming back. We shouldn’t mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy, but we believe that from the fracture we can build something bigger, better, stronger, more just. This is the task of the middle powers, the countries that have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and the most to gain from genuine cooperation.

    23 votes
    1. [9]
      Flashfall
      Link Parent
      I know basically nothing about Mark Carney and this might just be an overreaction due to the grade-school quality of dialogue being provided by our current head of state, but damn if that isn't...

      I know basically nothing about Mark Carney and this might just be an overreaction due to the grade-school quality of dialogue being provided by our current head of state, but damn if that isn't some poetic writing that nails the point. Whoever's writing this guy's speeches deserves a raise.

      25 votes
      1. Wafik
        Link Parent
        I joined a political party for the first time in my life so I could vote for Carney. Some of that is definitely being nice to listen to an intelligent adult with a practical outlook.

        I joined a political party for the first time in my life so I could vote for Carney. Some of that is definitely being nice to listen to an intelligent adult with a practical outlook.

        16 votes
      2. [7]
        Gazook89
        Link Parent
        NYT states that he wrote it himself, without aides.

        NYT states that he wrote it himself, without aides.

        14 votes
        1. [6]
          chocobean
          Link Parent
          Before he was PM he wrote a super thick book called Value(s) on how to move forward from *gestures generally * towards what human beings truely value. (I haven't read it, I just saw it mentioned...

          Before he was PM he wrote a super thick book called Value(s) on how to move forward from *gestures generally * towards what human beings truely value. (I haven't read it, I just saw it mentioned in a CBC Satire skit.) But yeah, I can believe the guy wrote this himself.

          11 votes
          1. [3]
            286437714
            Link Parent
            I've found in listening to a lot of leaders speak that you can very clearly tell the difference between something that's been written with someone's authentic authorial voice, versus something...

            I've found in listening to a lot of leaders speak that you can very clearly tell the difference between something that's been written with someone's authentic authorial voice, versus something that's been workshopped to death and had a thousand edits from outside sources.

            Another reason why this is so incredible. Going to Davos and telling your entire team 'I will write and deliver this' displays the kind of capability and confidence that has been lacking from heads of government essentially since I was born.

            13 votes
            1. [2]
              chocobean
              Link Parent
              Who the heck is this guy? And why does he want to run a country? And also a side thought, is this the inner circle that Trump has been trying desperately to join his entire life? You mentioned...

              Who the heck is this guy? And why does he want to run a country?

              And also a side thought, is this the inner circle that Trump has been trying desperately to join his entire life? You mentioned comic con: I've been to smaller cons and there's attendees sure, but there is an inner ring of annual attendees and whole weekend attendees, then within it there are the volunteer inner rings with access to the even more secret parties and even more exclusive celebrity events. And inner ring within inner ring all the way in.

              5 votes
              1. 286437714
                Link Parent
                Without knowing too much about Trump's psychology beyond what's in the headlines, my gut feel would be yes. The man seems to crave acceptance as the biggest and the best. Because he was a failed...

                Without knowing too much about Trump's psychology beyond what's in the headlines, my gut feel would be yes.

                The man seems to crave acceptance as the biggest and the best. Because he was a failed businessman, and because Davos is generally for financial magnates and tech founders, he never received an invite as a private citizen. He certainly wasn't going to get an invite for international development aid, like many rich people do. He just wasn't relevant to the conversations the group is convened to have.

                His appearance this year is mostly pretending that he doesn't care what they think and they're all losers anyway, which we can all recognise from the schoolyard. But it's very similar to what you're describing with the con environment - at Davos, there are the public events, the public pavillions, the private events, and then the secret, you-must-be-invited events where a lot of world history has been made. If you're looking at history through the lens of rich white men, anyway.

                To be clear, I've never seen Davos as a particularly useful forum. It's elitist by design and deliberately excludes marginal groups and people who are directly effected by decisions made there. Mark Carney may have reinvigorated it, but I don't think it's necessarily great.

                People who point out the hypocrisy of Davos and its continuing failure to address root causes (cause it'd make the elite less extraordinarily wealthy) tend not to get invited back, like Rutger Bregman.

                10 votes
          2. [2]
            Chiasmic
            Link Parent
            I tried listening to it on Audible but i struggled as it was a bit dry (and i don’t mind dry normally). I’ll give it another go at some point.

            I tried listening to it on Audible but i struggled as it was a bit dry (and i don’t mind dry normally). I’ll give it another go at some point.

            2 votes
            1. chocobean
              Link Parent
              That dry huh. Yeah I dunno..... If Canada survives this and we successfully move into the next prime minister without much scandals and environmental damage, I'll go back and read it as a "how'd...

              That dry huh. Yeah I dunno..... If Canada survives this and we successfully move into the next prime minister without much scandals and environmental damage, I'll go back and read it as a "how'd he pull it off". But otherwise I tend not to enjoy thoughts from "rich people good" point of views.

              1 vote
  2. Wafik
    Link
    An excellent speech. Doesn't prevent the fascist state next to us from fucking our shit up, but at least we managed to elect the best leader we could agree the scariest time in my life time.

    An excellent speech. Doesn't prevent the fascist state next to us from fucking our shit up, but at least we managed to elect the best leader we could agree the scariest time in my life time.

    18 votes
  3. [4]
    kingofsnake
    Link
    I shudder when I think of what Carney's alternative would have cooked up. Oh wait, he wouldn't be presenting there because WEF bad (because his base says so).

    I shudder when I think of what Carney's alternative would have cooked up.

    Oh wait, he wouldn't be presenting there because WEF bad (because his base says so).

    9 votes
    1. [3]
      pseudolobster
      Link Parent
      No need to guess. They've got a three-word-slogan about it: Workers, not WEF (because of course they do) (emphasis mine) There it is. Also the first time I've read the word "highfalutin" from an...

      No need to guess. They've got a three-word-slogan about it: Workers, not WEF (because of course they do)

      Whereas the Liberals frequently attend World Economic Forum conferences in Davos to give lectures on their radical woke agenda and hobnob with celebrities.

      (emphasis mine)

      There it is. Also the first time I've read the word "highfalutin" from an official party platform. So there's that.

      10 votes
      1. chocobean
        Link Parent
        I'm so glad Canadians voted to "Yeet the Pete", following his verb the noun platform.

        I'm so glad Canadians voted to "Yeet the Pete", following his verb the noun platform.

        6 votes
  4. [8]
    chocobean
    Link
    Ping @286437714 - would love to hear your thoughts on this speech if you have spare time. What is the WEF really, and why is he addressing middle powers at an econ event? Or am I being naive and...

    Ping @286437714 - would love to hear your thoughts on this speech if you have spare time. What is the WEF really, and why is he addressing middle powers at an econ event? Or am I being naive and states are run by economic forces more so than political? How did alliances work before the idealism we have currently, or is there no parallels at all because the world was never this interconnected before?

    I remember very little of my Thucydides from decades ago; mostly that bad times are coming at the end of an Empire kinda vibe.

    6 votes
    1. [5]
      286437714
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I might start with the easy stuff and work my way through, I'm recharged but not yet fully performance effective. Thucydides is very popular with the Davos types (international elites in finance,...
      • Exemplary

      I might start with the easy stuff and work my way through, I'm recharged but not yet fully performance effective.

      I remember very little of my Thucydides from decades ago; mostly that bad times are coming at the end of an Empire kinda vibe.

      Thucydides is very popular with the Davos types (international elites in finance, security, politics, tech, etc). He was an Athenian general, who thought that the rise of Athens made war with Sparta inevitable. The Thucydides trap was huge ten years ago, and an international relations theorist called Graham Allison published a book on it, which was an airport best-seller. Basically, Allison listed all these times a rising power disrupted an established hegemon, and war happened.

      My criticism of that, then and now, is that it was pretty selective (the guy was trying to justify a book title, after all) and didn't engage with all the times that the 'trap' didn't happen.

      I think one important thing that Allison brought to the public conversation back then was something called the security dilemma, and we're certainly seeing that play out now. In a chaotic, disrupted world, countries tend to turn themselves into mini-fortresses if they can, and desperately seek security through increasing their military spending, enlarging their armed forces, and signing alliances. The dilemma comes in in that, even if they're doing this purely for the sake of defending themselves, it might appear to an outside actor like belligerance, and like they're preparing for a war. Because people tend to project their agenda onto others - even state actors - a belligerent nation like the United States interprets this as a 'fight' response as opposed to a 'flight' response, and gets even more belligerent, making the situation worse. That's an important part of Carney's speech.

      What is the WEF really, and why is he addressing middle powers at an econ event?

      The WEF, or 'Davos' (it's hosted there), used to be the event where the elite gathered every year and decided our fates behind closed doors. I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek, but only slightly. You didn't really need to have an Illuminati conspiracy theory when Davos was happening, almost in plain sight. This might be a poor analogy as I don't know if it's the biggest one, but you know how there are lots of comics and pop culture conventions around the world? Davos is like the Comic Con that's held in California once per year. The big one. The one where there is a high barrier to entry and everything costs most.

      In short, it's not just aboute economics - business leaders go there to have private conversations and make deals with politicians. Security leaders go there to reaffirm support for each other or make new deals, like the break between turns in a game of Risk. And, especially over the past ten years, tech leaders go there to grease the wheels of what regulations may or may not be appropriate if you want big investment in your country.

      When people picture 'the global elite', it's attendees at Davos. So Carney picking this venue over the UN General Assembly means he's deliberately targeting his message at his peers - world leaders, central bankers, the class that was either bred to rule or has come to power to the point that they're in the room. I think that's part of what makes this speech so impactful.

      I'd say it's kinda impossible to disentangle economics and trade from politics when you ask how nation states are run, especially now. There's a whole field that studies the overlap of the two called Political Economy. But no, you're not being naive, it's just one of those things that is made almost intentionally obscure so, historically, people wouldn't pay attention.

      How did alliances work before the idealism we have currently, or is there no parallels at all because the world was never this interconnected before?

      'Nostalgia is not a strategy' is the crux of Carney's speech, and I think his plain stating of how the US-created 'international rules based order' no longer exists is the bluntest I've heard someone in a democratic government state things outside of a shielded bunker.

      The nostalgia Carney (The Hon. Mr Carney? Prime Minister Carney?) is referring to is, since the US won the Cold War, the order established by America had a lot of bullshit and fiction in it, but it worked for the majority of countries who subscribed to US-led multilateralism. Carney really clearly highlights that the reason countries were willing to let the US be hypocrites on things like human rights and trade rules was because broadly, the US could guarantee security for vast swathes of the world, through its systems of alliances, its military deterrence, and by using its economic power as a stabilising force, not as a blunt instrument to hurt people with.

      A point that has been made frequently is that the second invasion of Iraq under Bush/Obama and the US's military operations in Venezuela were essentially the same thing, the only difference is the US isn't pretending to care about checking with international institutions anymore, or giving things the gloss of 'we're spreading democracy and freedom'. But that's a pretty fucking huge difference. I'll quote directly from the part of the speech I think is most impactful:

      For decades, countries like Canada prospered under what we called the rules-based international order. We joined its institutions, we praised its principles, we benefited from its predictability. And because of that we could pursue values-based foreign policies under its protection.

      We knew the story of the international rules-based order was partially false. That the strongest would exempt themselves when convenient. That trade rules were enforced asymmetrically. And we knew that international law applied with varying rigour depending on the identity of the accused or the victim.

      This fiction was useful. And American hegemony, in particular, helped provide public goods: open sea lanes, a stable financial system, collective security and support for frameworks for resolving disputes.

      So, we placed the sign in the window. We participated in the rituals. And we largely avoided calling out the gaps between rhetoric and reality.

      This bargain no longer works.

      Let me be direct: We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition.

      When he speaks of 'useful fictions' I'd say that's a pretty good description of the way alliances actually worked in the age of idealism, which I'd date from the end of the Cold War to 2016. Yes, the US were hypocrites about a lot of things. They'd cry foul about human rights abuses in China while having their own prison industrial complex. They'd denounce torture in other countries but did torture themselves. They'd say China was using coercive economic policy in the pacific, but the US became a superpower through the same means. They'd accuse their enemies of war crimes whilst documented war crimes committed by US forces in the Global War on Terror went either unpunished or punished by means other than international law. They even passed a law domestically under Bush that the US could invade the Hague if a US service person, intelligence officer, or politician was detained.

      What Carney means by 'we're taking down our sign' is we're no longer pretending that US actions are exceptions to the norm. The bargain doesn't work anymore. It certainly came under immense strain during Iraq, but it resolved itself, because the international community (which usually means developed economies who participate in Post-WWII international institutions) got freedom of the seas, open and fair trade that could be resolved through dispute resolution at the WTO, and - generally, in what now seems like a historic aberration - peace and propsperity. As long as you put the sign in the window.

      But the fact that the US isn't even pretending to care, and that their actions are no longer brief exceptions to international law but consistently breaking it whilst brutalising their own people, it's impossible to continue on with this fiction of the 'rules based international order'. If the world's biggest power doesn't abide by it and doesn't even pretend to care about it anymore, what's the point?

      What Carney is saying here to other middle powers is really important. The term is contested, but for definitional clarity I'd say a middle power is an economically developed country, usually in Northeast Asia, Europe, South America or the Pacific, who has traditionally been under the United States's security umbrella. It's powers who have things like a potent standing defense force, but not the ability to unilaterally go anywhere in the world and do anything. They have economic might, but they can't just change the world trade system by itself. He's speaking directly to everyone who's recently been screwed over by the US treating their allies like shit, abandoning trade deals, pulling out of key global institutions and agreements. These are the things the developed world depended on to keep up with the fiction that maybe the US sometimes acted like a neoliberal monster, but by and large, the bargain is worth it.

      He talkes about principles-based engagement, which I think is really smart. No, Canada and China are never gonna agree on issues of democracy or who owns what, but they can work together on climate change and trade. When he talks about groupings of middle powers, it's a smart way forward for countries that benefitted from having a rules-based global order to carry forward the parts that were good and worked. Examples are like-minded countries stepping up to help Ukraine and counter Russia, or signing new trade deals that are fair and without coercion between themselves, or grouping together to keep foreign aid and international development alive instead of just turning inward.

      Whether that'll happen, I don't know, but the speech is so significant because it clearly states that Canada is no longer pretending that the US is a friend, that the US can be trusted, or that the US is bound by its own laws or the laws that international institutions try to uphold. Hopefully it gives courage to other leaders, especially of democracies, to stop appeasement and start building solutions together.

      Given that a nation is likely to incur US ire at some point just for not giving up its resources, its sovereignty, or its arms, what's the point of pretending anymore? Hopefully the speech will go down in history as the moment where developed countries, and developing countries seeking to advance, saw that appeasement and giving in to coercion by the United States wasn't worth it, that the old bargain of a stable world guaranteed by America isn't coming back, and it's time for something new.

      I'm not sure what the something new might be, but at least he's encouraging his peers to be brave and state things as they are, not as they used to be.

      Edit: Thanks for all the kind words. These write ups are quite hard to put together for a variety of reasons, so I really appreciate the people that have written saying it helped them out.

      30 votes
      1. patience_limited
        Link Parent
        There's an interesting analysis here that suggests PM Carney has been thinking about this for years, since he was Governor of the Bank of England. He's a deeply knowledgeable economist, and...

        There's an interesting analysis here that suggests PM Carney has been thinking about this for years, since he was Governor of the Bank of England. He's a deeply knowledgeable economist, and there's an "if something can't go on forever, it will stop" logic to his considerations about the primacy of the U.S. dollar-denominated global financial system and military hegemony.

        12 votes
      2. chocobean
        Link Parent
        This is fantastic, thank you. I've never previously heard of Davos. It kind of makes me think how effective is democracy really, if all we're doing is picking between elite A or elite B, to...

        This is fantastic, thank you. I've never previously heard of Davos. It kind of makes me think how effective is democracy really, if all we're doing is picking between elite A or elite B, to presumably stand up against another country's leader elite C, when all three are actually all buddies with pretty much the same goals.

        I noted that he mentioned ASEAN for trade, and EU's SAFE for defense/procurement. I guess that's one model beyond allies vs adversaries: everyone is going to trade on the same level as everyone, even if we don't have full agreements on every issue. But this is a good reality acknowledgement: we've been bullied on having resources we're hedged into selling for cheap and been cheated on for decades. With friends like this etc.

        One thing over the past year I noticed about Carney: he's really good at making deals. Not as a negotiator, he doesn't seem to aim for tit for tat, he's more like a tabletop DM - yes and......yes and. Yes pipeline, and we'll stay as one country. Yes environment protection, and we'll make sure your involvement is vital at every step. Yes sovereign cloud and infrastructure, and we're going to be careful about the budget too... Just, I'm not sure how he's going to pull off saying yes to every premiere every interest group, but it seems to be working so far and doesn't yet smell like grift.

        This feels like an important speech that marks a new chapter, or at least a signpost that a change in direction has been happened/is happening/will be happening.

        8 votes
      3. [2]
        Foreigner
        Link Parent
        Just to add that WEF (or World Economic Forum) is a non-profit think-tank and convener, Davos is their annual big meeting. Outside of Davos, they organise other conferences, multistakeholder...

        Just to add that WEF (or World Economic Forum) is a non-profit think-tank and convener, Davos is their annual big meeting. Outside of Davos, they organise other conferences, multistakeholder initiatives, projects, write reports, etc. They run on membership fees from their corporate members (many of whom you see featured at Davos).

        5 votes
        1. 286437714
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Sorry, I forgot to include that. The corporate membership fees are handled by account managers, so it's a situation of 'if you have to ask how expensive it is, you can't afford it.' There are some...

          Sorry, I forgot to include that.

          The corporate membership fees are handled by account managers, so it's a situation of 'if you have to ask how expensive it is, you can't afford it.' There are some figures available from journalists from Fortune digging into this year, but I'd take them with a grain of salt.

          The annual corporate memberships start around €64,800 and go up to €700,000 for “strategic partners" (event sponsors whose logo is in the background of speeches), but that's just what is publicly available and may not be accurate to this year's prices.

          It might sound insane, and I'm certainly not a fan of it, but I know we have some F1 fans here on Tildes, and companies pay more to have a tiny logo on the nose of a mid-grade Formula One team.

          I've heard that membership fees are waived if you're an up-and-coming company and they want to attract you or someone from your organisation to Davos itself.

          For individuals attending Davos, it's a €29,000 for an elite badge, which doesn't guarantee access to all events, and €1000 euros for second-tier badges (generally staffers and assistants). There was a bit of an outcry last year because they bumped the second-tier badges by 10x, but my read on that was they wanted more decision makers and less hangers-on.

          For individuals members, people can access WEF think pieces, virtual sessions and 'create a customized intelligence map for personalized insights with AI map assistant' for €1080 Euro per year. That's pretty reasonable and comparable to other types of subscriptions offered by comparable organisations.

          It's only when you get to Davos itself that the conversation of pay-for-access and the exclusion of people impacted by the decision makers who attend starts to become relevant. Some panels do have senior executives from international non-governmental organisations or sub-national community leaders, but as a rule, they're generally screened to make sure they will say supportive things about billionaire philanthropy (and the existence of billionaires).

          Famous people who've gotten in trouble for not being supportive of the above are Jane Goodall and David Attenborough, but they were old enough that they didn't care about the repercussions, and god help the company or oligarch who spoke out against one of those two.

          6 votes
    2. mild_takes
      Link Parent
      The middle powers are basically everyone thats not the USA, China, and maybe a few other major powers. Its basically everyone in the room that is going to need to stand up to the USA for their...

      What is the WEF really, and why is he addressing middle powers at an econ event?

      The middle powers are basically everyone thats not the USA, China, and maybe a few other major powers. Its basically everyone in the room that is going to need to stand up to the USA for their belligerence.

      Or am I being naive and states are run by economic forces more so than political? How did alliances work before the idealism we have currently, or is there no parallels at all because the world was never this interconnected before?

      The USA has gained massively over the last 100 years by ruling over economic forces and projecting power globally to strengthen their economic power. I don't know how alliances worked in the 1800's but we're so interconnected now that more than ever this stuff matters. By alienating basically all of their trading partners the USA is now living on borrowed time economically. Without that economic power they will eventually cease to be a global superpower.

      14 votes
    3. 286437714
      Link Parent
      Sure thing! I'm running out of battery but I'll try and get to it tomorrow once I have recharged.

      Sure thing! I'm running out of battery but I'll try and get to it tomorrow once I have recharged.

      5 votes
  5. chocobean
    Link
    Following up: Carney's Davos speech strikes a chord in Mexico -- Mexican lawmakers reflect on prime minister's words ahead of Canadian trade mission, CUSMA negotiations CBC Mexican President...

    Following up: Carney's Davos speech strikes a chord in Mexico -- Mexican lawmakers reflect on prime minister's words ahead of Canadian trade mission, CUSMA negotiations CBC

    Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum

    Carney’s speech was “in tune with the current times" and "That was a very good speech by Carney, from Prime Minister Carney, I don’t know if you heard it.”

    Federal Deputy Dolores Padierna Luna

    “I believe that Canada and Mexico need to speak more, always more deeply, and provide mutual support,” said Padierna, who is the vice-coordinator for the Morena caucus in the Chamber of Deputies. [...]

    Padierna Luna said it was “insulting” and “offensive” for U.S. President Donald Trump to publish images on social media with the U.S. flag covering Canadian territory and to refer to Canada as the 51st state.

    “So, we have to say, no. To confront this like Carney did … with his impressive speech, as a lesson for the whole world,” she said.

    “Canada and Mexico need to unite to defend our sovereignty.”

    6 votes