From the article: [...] Edit: For reference, Ceuta is across the Strait of Gibraltar, and has no land connection with the rest of Spain. I don't know much local context, but this sounds absolutely...
From the article:
ROME, July 31 (Reuters) - Italy said on Friday it was suspending the European Union's border-free Schengen arrangements with Spain for one month in response to a mass influx of migrants into the Spanish enclave of Ceuta from neighbouring Morocco.
However, the government said the measure would not affect Spanish or other EU citizens travelling to Italy and would instead involve targeted checks on non-EU nationals arriving from Spain by air or sea.
[...]
The move came after Spain said it had largely reversed the rush of migrants into Ceuta, with most of the more than 50,000 people who had crossed into the enclave returning voluntarily to Morocco.
Critics of Meloni's right-wing government dismissed the new border checks as largely symbolic, saying there was no indication that migrants arriving in Ceuta had any desire to travel onwards to Italy.
Meloni's coalition, which came to power in 2022 promising to reduce illegal immigration, has faced strong pressure from a new far-right party led by former army general Roberto Vannacci, whose anti-migrant rhetoric has resonated with some voters.
Edit: For reference, Ceuta is across the Strait of Gibraltar, and has no land connection with the rest of Spain.
I don't know much local context, but this sounds absolutely insane to me as an American. It feels like if I read news saying Arkansas suddenly started checking papers at interstate roadstops because of a wave of immigration three states over in Florida.
And I get the feeling that the "targeted checks" won't be so careful as they claim.
Idk, if it's actually temporary, seems reasonable to me. 50,000 people in one day is not normal. Cueta has a population of 50,000. This town has had literally the equivalent of its entire...
Idk, if it's actually temporary, seems reasonable to me. 50,000 people in one day is not normal. Cueta has a population of 50,000. This town has had literally the equivalent of its entire population show up on its doorstep on a single day. This isn't normal migrant flow or anything, it's very much an exceptional event.
Part of Schengen is that its members have to do entry border checks from non-Schengen regions. With this absurd amount of people, it's reasonable to have some doubts as to whether Spain can do that logistically.
Refugees have to register with the entry country anyway, so if they're doing things the right way, the migrants would need to stay in spain for processing, so it doesn't really affect them.
Sure. It was also largely over by the time the restrictions were imposed. It should also be noted that Ceuta is across the Strait of Gibraltar, meaning you can't exactly walk to the rest of Spain...
it's very much an exceptional event.
Sure. It was also largely over by the time the restrictions were imposed.
The move came after Spain said it had largely reversed the rush of migrants into Ceuta, with most of the more than 50,000 people who had crossed into the enclave returning voluntarily to Morocco.
It should also be noted that Ceuta is across the Strait of Gibraltar, meaning you can't exactly walk to the rest of Spain from there. That rather slows travel that otherwise might've happened.
Fundamentally though, it doesn't matter, as migrants are not evil. Failing to do a border check for them, even a lot of them, isn't going to cause anyone's country to combust,1 much less neighbors of the country that was actually affected. Much much less neighbors of those neighbors.
Most importantly, this is not a decision made by people having reasonable concerns. It's made by people known for hating immigration. There is a pattern here. I would find it incredibly hard to believe that this move is being done for any reason other than for appealing to racists.
1. Mass waves are rough since handling crowds is tough even in good circumstances, which is why this was absolutely a problem for Ceuta specifically. Absolutely none of that is relevant for France or Italy however, and I doubt even the rest of Spain will have to care.
This is a completely orthagonal response to what stu2b50 said, though. He didn't say or even imply they were evil - he was questioning the logistical capacity of the local government.
Fundamentally though, it doesn't matter, as migrants are not evil.
This is a completely orthagonal response to what stu2b50 said, though. He didn't say or even imply they were evil - he was questioning the logistical capacity of the local government.
I'm not accusing stu2b50 of believing this. I'm responding to their argument that this was a reasonable course of action, which involves addressing the reasoning implied by relevant governments,...
I'm not accusing stu2b50 of believing this. I'm responding to their argument that this was a reasonable course of action, which involves addressing the reasoning implied by relevant governments, which in this case seems at least partially driven by racism.
But also, it's not as orthogonal as you'd think. 50,000 people is nothing when spread out across Spain alone, let alone three entire countries. How am I supposed to believe there would be any meaningful chaos beyond Ceuta? All the ideas I can come up with require a belief that the wave consisted primarily of people massively predisposed to violence. And that's just racism again.
That example is rather apt. They're also not allowed to do this. You can't just unilaterally stop abiding by the rules of the Schengen zone. Edit to add: Some nuance, countries can create an...
That example is rather apt. They're also not allowed to do this. You can't just unilaterally stop abiding by the rules of the Schengen zone.
Edit to add: Some nuance, countries can create an emergency response to "unforeseen circumstances" that last a month with possible extension to maximum three months. It must be a valid reason and reported to the European Commission.
People that may or may not cross the border when there's no reason to assume they do is not a valid reason.
According to the article, apparently they can, if only temporarily: It doesn't help that apparently France's interior minister is agreeing and has also restricted the French border with Spain: I...
According to the article, apparently they can, if only temporarily:
The Schengen Area allows passport-free travel across 29 European countries, although member states can temporarily reintroduce border controls on security or public-order grounds.
Earlier on Friday, French Interior Minister Laurent Nuñez announced he had ordered increased controls at the border with Spain.
In a post on X, Nuñez wrote that local police and military units would be mobilized for the checks, and he commented in an interview with radio station RTL that he was in contact with Spanish authorities. “We have a mobile unit that is on duty around the clock,” he said.
French center-right presidential candidate Édouard Philippe also called for a “European response” to the crisis, but stressed that his country “must immediately strengthen control of our border with Spain. Not a single migrant must be allowed to enter national territory illegally.”
I cannot imagine hating other people this much, all just because they were born somewhere else.
Only under exceptional situations and as short as possible. The problem is that they're stretching the definition of "exceptional". Here's a list of currently imposed border controls and their...
Only under exceptional situations and as short as possible. The problem is that they're stretching the definition of "exceptional".
Here's a list of currently imposed border controls and their reasoning: List
also worth noting that spain enforces a border check between ceuta and mainland spain, so there was never really any risk that the migrants would be entering italy
also worth noting that spain enforces a border check between ceuta and mainland spain, so there was never really any risk that the migrants would be entering italy
Apparently Ceuta is a Spanish enclave on the Moroccan coast, so imagine your scenario took place because a wave of migrants had crossed over not into Florida, but Guantanamo Bay.
Apparently Ceuta is a Spanish enclave on the Moroccan coast, so imagine your scenario took place because a wave of migrants had crossed over not into Florida, but Guantanamo Bay.
These were lies. The Moroccans who swam to Ceuta were never going to make it to Britain, Germany, or anywhere else in Europe. Once again: Access to Ceuta does not give anyone automatic access to the rest of Europe. More to the point, nearly all of those who swam over the border had returned to Morocco by Sunday morning. The Spanish government negotiated their return with the Moroccan government. Moroccan police resumed blocking the border. Spanish police, according to El Pais and the Financial Times, were checking documents in Ceuta to find any Moroccans who illegally remained.
Instead, far-right and MAGA politicians, influencers, and podcasters will immediately use the most divisive language possible in order to make voters as angry as possible, as fast as possible, regardless of what actually happened. Almost everyone else will be intimidated by their fury. As it turns out, it’s harder to stop the wave of anger than it is to stop the migrants themselves.
From the article:
[...]
Edit: For reference, Ceuta is across the Strait of Gibraltar, and has no land connection with the rest of Spain.
I don't know much local context, but this sounds absolutely insane to me as an American. It feels like if I read news saying Arkansas suddenly started checking papers at interstate roadstops because of a wave of immigration three states over in Florida.
And I get the feeling that the "targeted checks" won't be so careful as they claim.
Idk, if it's actually temporary, seems reasonable to me. 50,000 people in one day is not normal. Cueta has a population of 50,000. This town has had literally the equivalent of its entire population show up on its doorstep on a single day. This isn't normal migrant flow or anything, it's very much an exceptional event.
Part of Schengen is that its members have to do entry border checks from non-Schengen regions. With this absurd amount of people, it's reasonable to have some doubts as to whether Spain can do that logistically.
Refugees have to register with the entry country anyway, so if they're doing things the right way, the migrants would need to stay in spain for processing, so it doesn't really affect them.
Sure. It was also largely over by the time the restrictions were imposed.
It should also be noted that Ceuta is across the Strait of Gibraltar, meaning you can't exactly walk to the rest of Spain from there. That rather slows travel that otherwise might've happened.
Fundamentally though, it doesn't matter, as migrants are not evil. Failing to do a border check for them, even a lot of them, isn't going to cause anyone's country to combust,1 much less neighbors of the country that was actually affected. Much much less neighbors of those neighbors.
Most importantly, this is not a decision made by people having reasonable concerns. It's made by people known for hating immigration. There is a pattern here. I would find it incredibly hard to believe that this move is being done for any reason other than for appealing to racists.
1. Mass waves are rough since handling crowds is tough even in good circumstances, which is why this was absolutely a problem for Ceuta specifically. Absolutely none of that is relevant for France or Italy however, and I doubt even the rest of Spain will have to care.
This is a completely orthagonal response to what stu2b50 said, though. He didn't say or even imply they were evil - he was questioning the logistical capacity of the local government.
I'm not accusing stu2b50 of believing this. I'm responding to their argument that this was a reasonable course of action, which involves addressing the reasoning implied by relevant governments, which in this case seems at least partially driven by racism.
But also, it's not as orthogonal as you'd think. 50,000 people is nothing when spread out across Spain alone, let alone three entire countries. How am I supposed to believe there would be any meaningful chaos beyond Ceuta? All the ideas I can come up with require a belief that the wave consisted primarily of people massively predisposed to violence. And that's just racism again.
Pretty much entire Europe hates immigration these days. Well, except for Spain. I fear that's going to change now though after this mess.
That example is rather apt. They're also not allowed to do this. You can't just unilaterally stop abiding by the rules of the Schengen zone.
Edit to add: Some nuance, countries can create an emergency response to "unforeseen circumstances" that last a month with possible extension to maximum three months. It must be a valid reason and reported to the European Commission.
People that may or may not cross the border when there's no reason to assume they do is not a valid reason.
According to the article, apparently they can, if only temporarily:
It doesn't help that apparently France's interior minister is agreeing and has also restricted the French border with Spain:
I cannot imagine hating other people this much, all just because they were born somewhere else.
Only under exceptional situations and as short as possible. The problem is that they're stretching the definition of "exceptional".
Here's a list of currently imposed border controls and their reasoning: List
It turns out that sovereign states can actually do whatever they want, and only collective or violent action can coerce them to do anything at all.
also worth noting that spain enforces a border check between ceuta and mainland spain, so there was never really any risk that the migrants would be entering italy
Apparently Ceuta is a Spanish enclave on the Moroccan coast, so imagine your scenario took place because a wave of migrants had crossed over not into Florida, but Guantanamo Bay.
That's a fantastic change, yeah! I was trying to think of a closer analogy, but Florida was the best I got, and just kinda went with what I had.
The Far Right Is Distorting Ceuta