IMO, the punishment was appropriate given the injury potential and the anger around slapshotting an empty net goal is absurd. I don't see Bettman changing anything since it's in line with other...
IMO, the punishment was appropriate given the injury potential and the anger around slapshotting an empty net goal is absurd. I don't see Bettman changing anything since it's in line with other upheld suspensions, but I guess there's nothing lost in trying.
I have zero issue with a 5 game suspension. But as a Leafs fan, I was glad to see Rielly's response. This team has lacked a spine, especially this season, and it was great seeing someone with a...
I have zero issue with a 5 game suspension.
But as a Leafs fan, I was glad to see Rielly's response. This team has lacked a spine, especially this season, and it was great seeing someone with a passionate "Fuck you, I don't give a shit, this is unacceptable, fuck you fuck you fuck you" sort of response. It cemented my belief that we should have had Captain Morgan all these years.
I wasn't angry at Greig, I think the league is more entertaining with stunts like that. But I was glad to see something fire up that "fuck you" spark in our team. And I think the pissed off responses are part of the entertainment value that showing up an opponent brings.
I can understand the response, but he shouldn't have went for the head. Hockey is a game that heavily relies on self policing. If you show up your opponent like that, you need to be ready to...
I can understand the response, but he shouldn't have went for the head. Hockey is a game that heavily relies on self policing. If you show up your opponent like that, you need to be ready to expect a response. But the response with a crosscheck to the head was completely inappropriate. Body him up, give him a shove, don't go for the head. I'd be surprised if they change the 5 game suspension.
Right, there's so many ways to have responded without cross-checking someone in the head. Headshots have been a no-go in the NHL for a while now, there's no excuse for that. Ever since Sydney...
Right, there's so many ways to have responded without cross-checking someone in the head. Headshots have been a no-go in the NHL for a while now, there's no excuse for that. Ever since Sydney Crosby had his career hampered by the concussions, the NHL has been steadily cracking down on these more and more and more.
People are flattening the situation out into only being a "call and response" sort of scenario when the reality is that there were so many better and more acceptable ways for an older grown-ass man to hit a much younger grown-ass man than the way he ended up choosing to, and his choice does deserve the consequences.
He didn't go for the head. He went in with a cross check that rode up to the head. He still has to be more responsible, of course. But he wasn't head hunting.
He didn't go for the head. He went in with a cross check that rode up to the head.
He still has to be more responsible, of course. But he wasn't head hunting.
Yeah, I can certainly understand the appeal of seeing a spark from your otherwise flat team (assuming that's the case. I don't follow the Leafs all that closely). It shows that at least someone...
Yeah, I can certainly understand the appeal of seeing a spark from your otherwise flat team (assuming that's the case. I don't follow the Leafs all that closely). It shows that at least someone cares. As a Hurricanes fan, I know all too well how boring it is to have a team (in previous years, not recently) who just barely shows up to collect their paycheck.
It's not quite that the Leafs show up just to collect the pay cheque. It's more like they're happy being a pretty great NHL team, playing in the NHL, living the good life being pampered in...
It's not quite that the Leafs show up just to collect the pay cheque. It's more like they're happy being a pretty great NHL team, playing in the NHL, living the good life being pampered in Toronto, etc.
They aren't driven to win above all else. They don't hate to lose. They're happy to put in their time, get as far as they do, and let the chips fall where they may. "Well that happened. Oh well, nothing to be done about it now" is the sort of attitude I've come to expect from this group, and it's refreshing to see someone take matters into their own hands with a "No the fuck you won't do that on my watch" attitude to something.
I was reading another discussion earlier where someone mentioned that the pa prefers to appeal all suspensions because it forces the league to define precedent that can be used in future cases....
I was reading another discussion earlier where someone mentioned that the pa prefers to appeal all suspensions because it forces the league to define precedent that can be used in future cases. I'm not sure how accurate that is but it did provide another angle from which to view the choice to appeal.
I also think the five games is appropriate here especially in light of Perrons six gamer earlier this season. Given the current state of the game/code, I dont have a problem with Reilly retaliating to the slapper but a post-whistle crosscheck to the dome, even if it was on the shoulder and rode up, cant be acceptable.
The PA has definitely taken a more aggressive stance with appeals lately. I think it's a result of Walsh doing the rounds to meet and listen to players and hearing their frustration with the DOPS....
The PA has definitely taken a more aggressive stance with appeals lately. I think it's a result of Walsh doing the rounds to meet and listen to players and hearing their frustration with the DOPS.
And I think it's preparation for the next CBA. The players have been pretty clear that they don't think the appeals process is genuine — Bettman is too invested in supporting Parros to independently adjudicate his decisions — so I think they're angling towards lowering the bar for appeals to go to an independent arbitrator. The best way to do that is to make appeals annoying for Bettman so the league sees the benefit of no longer having to deal with them.
I was extremely disappointed by Rielly's actions. I'm a fan of the Senators and have a history with head injury, so naturally I was upset seeing Greig take a headshot--but I'm also generally a fan...
I was extremely disappointed by Rielly's actions.
I'm a fan of the Senators and have a history with head injury, so naturally I was upset seeing Greig take a headshot--but I'm also generally a fan of Morgan Rielly. Even if he plays for a rival team, I've always recognized him as a skilled player, and his outspoken support for the LGBT community is inspiring in a sport that has some serious homophobia issues. His relationship with Tessa Virtue is also cute, and I admire him for the way he has (seemingly) handled the endless Tessa Virtue X Scott Moir shipping with grace. Watching him succumb to emotions on the ice and deliver a headshot was as surprising as it was disappointing.
I don't buy the "it was an accident, he was aiming for the body" excuse from Rielly, and I'm pleased to see Bettman gave it zero credence as well:
"This is not a case where Mr. Rielly's stick was delivered to the misection or shoulder and 'rode up' to Mr. Greig's head" (page 8).
I think the slapshot was awesome--I love rivalry in sports. It's one of the few areas of life where shit-talking, flexing, etc. is 100% fine, in my opinion. I'm genuinely hoping that the next time Toronto has an open net opportunity vs Ottawa, one of the Leafs winds up for a clapper and then gives the Sens bench a big shit-eating grin. It would be hilarious if this turned into an ongoing thing between the two teams.
I would have also been cool with Rielly challenging Greig to a fight and/or shoving him. The response isn't the issue--the decision to respond is actually fantastic for the rivalry, imo--it's the egre(i)giousness of the response that is the whole problem here. I think Bettman nailed it in point#1 on page 7.
Hopefully this is a one-time thing from Rielly and I can go back to being a fan.
I think it's pretty obvious that Rielly wasn't targeting the head. He had plenty of time to line it up properly if that were the case, instead of having it glance up off the shoulder. So I...
I don't buy the "it was an accident, he was aiming for the body" excuse from Rielly, and I'm pleased to see Bettman gave it zero credence as well:
I think it's pretty obvious that Rielly wasn't targeting the head. He had plenty of time to line it up properly if that were the case, instead of having it glance up off the shoulder.
The video at 0:45 says Rielly intentionally strikes Greig in the head. I don't see how that can be a rational conclusion. The point of contact wasn't the head. He intentionally struck him, yes. He ended up hitting the head, yes. But those two facts don't get you to his intent being to strike the head.
At 1:05 the video talks about this not being a case of jousting where both players could expect escalating contact. Obviously they weren't "jousting" but the NHL explanation uses that qualifier to slip past separately addressing the fact that it was absolutely a situation in which Greig could expect escalating contact.
As a Leafs fan there are so many angles to this situation that it's hard to express them.
I have zero issue with Greig.
Greig should have known someone was coming after him after pulling that.
Good on Reilly for lighting a spark under his team. The Jordan documentary taught us all about athletes using things to get fired up about to spur them on, and Reilly made the right call.
Reilly shouldn't have used his stick. And if he was going to use his stick he needed to be more responsible about where it went.
I don't think the suspension was well supported by the video explanation. It seemed weak on the two points mentioned above. It felt like they were trying to pull a bit of a fast one with their explanations.
I don't think Bettman does a very good job of reviewing suspensions and holding the DOPS accountable for justifying their work. It seems like it's generally just a formality, and I bet an independent arbitrator would reverse suspensions more than he does. I think the PA and players feel pretty strongly that the appeals process is a joke.
The first regular season matchup is suddenly must-see TV. This is good for the game.
I haven’t seen a video that shows the trajectory of Rielly’s swing change due to contact with Greig’s shoulder. Until that video emerges, I’m siding with the DOPS, Bettman, and (anecdotally) most...
I think it's pretty obvious that Rielly wasn't targeting the head. He had plenty of time to line it up properly if that were the case, instead of having it glance up off the shoulder.
I haven’t seen a video that shows the trajectory of Rielly’s swing change due to contact with Greig’s shoulder. Until that video emerges, I’m siding with the DOPS, Bettman, and (anecdotally) most neutral fans on this being intentional.
I dunno about that. I think the NHL suspension video shows it pretty clearly at about 2:00. Reilly's stick doesn't even hit the head, it rides up the shoulder into the neck. Given that video, I...
I dunno about that. I think the NHL suspension video shows it pretty clearly at about 2:00. Reilly's stick doesn't even hit the head, it rides up the shoulder into the neck. Given that video, I think the burden of proof needs to be on showing that it was intentional. If Reilly intended to cross check him in the head one would expect him to have done a much better job — it's not like there was anything preventing him from coming in 6" higher.
Friedman had a similar perspective that it was a ride up. He was shocked that it was an in-person hearing in the first place and thought the suspension would come in around 2-3 games. And that's someone who's not only impartial, but also more plugged in than anyone else.
I also don't think my fandom is playing much of a role here. I'm not upset about it — this team badly needed a kick in the ass, and it seems to have worked. I'm quite content about everything that's transpired, I just don't think the league did a very good job addressing those two crucial points mentioned above. In a video designed to explain and justify a suspension the league should be more exact, not leave the impression that they're ducking explaining themselves thoroughly.
I think this is one of those situations where everyone's just going to have to watch the video and decide for themselves whether Rielly was aiming for the head vs the shoulder. I don't know if...
I think this is one of those situations where everyone's just going to have to watch the video and decide for themselves whether Rielly was aiming for the head vs the shoulder.
IMO, the punishment was appropriate given the injury potential and the anger around slapshotting an empty net goal is absurd. I don't see Bettman changing anything since it's in line with other upheld suspensions, but I guess there's nothing lost in trying.
I have zero issue with a 5 game suspension.
But as a Leafs fan, I was glad to see Rielly's response. This team has lacked a spine, especially this season, and it was great seeing someone with a passionate "Fuck you, I don't give a shit, this is unacceptable, fuck you fuck you fuck you" sort of response. It cemented my belief that we should have had Captain Morgan all these years.
I wasn't angry at Greig, I think the league is more entertaining with stunts like that. But I was glad to see something fire up that "fuck you" spark in our team. And I think the pissed off responses are part of the entertainment value that showing up an opponent brings.
I can understand the response, but he shouldn't have went for the head. Hockey is a game that heavily relies on self policing. If you show up your opponent like that, you need to be ready to expect a response. But the response with a crosscheck to the head was completely inappropriate. Body him up, give him a shove, don't go for the head. I'd be surprised if they change the 5 game suspension.
Right, there's so many ways to have responded without cross-checking someone in the head. Headshots have been a no-go in the NHL for a while now, there's no excuse for that. Ever since Sydney Crosby had his career hampered by the concussions, the NHL has been steadily cracking down on these more and more and more.
People are flattening the situation out into only being a "call and response" sort of scenario when the reality is that there were so many better and more acceptable ways for an older grown-ass man to hit a much younger grown-ass man than the way he ended up choosing to, and his choice does deserve the consequences.
He didn't go for the head. He went in with a cross check that rode up to the head.
He still has to be more responsible, of course. But he wasn't head hunting.
Yeah, I can certainly understand the appeal of seeing a spark from your otherwise flat team (assuming that's the case. I don't follow the Leafs all that closely). It shows that at least someone cares. As a Hurricanes fan, I know all too well how boring it is to have a team (in previous years, not recently) who just barely shows up to collect their paycheck.
It's not quite that the Leafs show up just to collect the pay cheque. It's more like they're happy being a pretty great NHL team, playing in the NHL, living the good life being pampered in Toronto, etc.
They aren't driven to win above all else. They don't hate to lose. They're happy to put in their time, get as far as they do, and let the chips fall where they may. "Well that happened. Oh well, nothing to be done about it now" is the sort of attitude I've come to expect from this group, and it's refreshing to see someone take matters into their own hands with a "No the fuck you won't do that on my watch" attitude to something.
I was reading another discussion earlier where someone mentioned that the pa prefers to appeal all suspensions because it forces the league to define precedent that can be used in future cases. I'm not sure how accurate that is but it did provide another angle from which to view the choice to appeal.
I also think the five games is appropriate here especially in light of Perrons six gamer earlier this season. Given the current state of the game/code, I dont have a problem with Reilly retaliating to the slapper but a post-whistle crosscheck to the dome, even if it was on the shoulder and rode up, cant be acceptable.
Not a Leafs or Sens fan for whatever that's worth
The PA has definitely taken a more aggressive stance with appeals lately. I think it's a result of Walsh doing the rounds to meet and listen to players and hearing their frustration with the DOPS.
And I think it's preparation for the next CBA. The players have been pretty clear that they don't think the appeals process is genuine — Bettman is too invested in supporting Parros to independently adjudicate his decisions — so I think they're angling towards lowering the bar for appeals to go to an independent arbitrator. The best way to do that is to make appeals annoying for Bettman so the league sees the benefit of no longer having to deal with them.
Bettman has reviewed Rielly's appeal and upheld the suspension:
I was extremely disappointed by Rielly's actions.
I'm a fan of the Senators and have a history with head injury, so naturally I was upset seeing Greig take a headshot--but I'm also generally a fan of Morgan Rielly. Even if he plays for a rival team, I've always recognized him as a skilled player, and his outspoken support for the LGBT community is inspiring in a sport that has some serious homophobia issues. His relationship with Tessa Virtue is also cute, and I admire him for the way he has (seemingly) handled the endless Tessa Virtue X Scott Moir shipping with grace. Watching him succumb to emotions on the ice and deliver a headshot was as surprising as it was disappointing.
I don't buy the "it was an accident, he was aiming for the body" excuse from Rielly, and I'm pleased to see Bettman gave it zero credence as well:
I think the slapshot was awesome--I love rivalry in sports. It's one of the few areas of life where shit-talking, flexing, etc. is 100% fine, in my opinion. I'm genuinely hoping that the next time Toronto has an open net opportunity vs Ottawa, one of the Leafs winds up for a clapper and then gives the Sens bench a big shit-eating grin. It would be hilarious if this turned into an ongoing thing between the two teams.
I would have also been cool with Rielly challenging Greig to a fight and/or shoving him. The response isn't the issue--the decision to respond is actually fantastic for the rivalry, imo--it's the egre(i)giousness of the response that is the whole problem here. I think Bettman nailed it in point#1 on page 7.
Hopefully this is a one-time thing from Rielly and I can go back to being a fan.
I think it's pretty obvious that Rielly wasn't targeting the head. He had plenty of time to line it up properly if that were the case, instead of having it glance up off the shoulder.
So I disagree with the video on two points:
The video at 0:45 says Rielly intentionally strikes Greig in the head. I don't see how that can be a rational conclusion. The point of contact wasn't the head. He intentionally struck him, yes. He ended up hitting the head, yes. But those two facts don't get you to his intent being to strike the head.
At 1:05 the video talks about this not being a case of jousting where both players could expect escalating contact. Obviously they weren't "jousting" but the NHL explanation uses that qualifier to slip past separately addressing the fact that it was absolutely a situation in which Greig could expect escalating contact.
As a Leafs fan there are so many angles to this situation that it's hard to express them.
I have zero issue with Greig.
Greig should have known someone was coming after him after pulling that.
Good on Reilly for lighting a spark under his team. The Jordan documentary taught us all about athletes using things to get fired up about to spur them on, and Reilly made the right call.
Reilly shouldn't have used his stick. And if he was going to use his stick he needed to be more responsible about where it went.
I don't think the suspension was well supported by the video explanation. It seemed weak on the two points mentioned above. It felt like they were trying to pull a bit of a fast one with their explanations.
I don't think Bettman does a very good job of reviewing suspensions and holding the DOPS accountable for justifying their work. It seems like it's generally just a formality, and I bet an independent arbitrator would reverse suspensions more than he does. I think the PA and players feel pretty strongly that the appeals process is a joke.
The first regular season matchup is suddenly must-see TV. This is good for the game.
I haven’t seen a video that shows the trajectory of Rielly’s swing change due to contact with Greig’s shoulder. Until that video emerges, I’m siding with the DOPS, Bettman, and (anecdotally) most neutral fans on this being intentional.
I dunno about that. I think the NHL suspension video shows it pretty clearly at about 2:00. Reilly's stick doesn't even hit the head, it rides up the shoulder into the neck. Given that video, I think the burden of proof needs to be on showing that it was intentional. If Reilly intended to cross check him in the head one would expect him to have done a much better job — it's not like there was anything preventing him from coming in 6" higher.
Friedman had a similar perspective that it was a ride up. He was shocked that it was an in-person hearing in the first place and thought the suspension would come in around 2-3 games. And that's someone who's not only impartial, but also more plugged in than anyone else.
I also don't think my fandom is playing much of a role here. I'm not upset about it — this team badly needed a kick in the ass, and it seems to have worked. I'm quite content about everything that's transpired, I just don't think the league did a very good job addressing those two crucial points mentioned above. In a video designed to explain and justify a suspension the league should be more exact, not leave the impression that they're ducking explaining themselves thoroughly.
I think this is one of those situations where everyone's just going to have to watch the video and decide for themselves whether Rielly was aiming for the head vs the shoulder.
I don't know if anyone is still following this who hasn't already seen the tape and picked a side (lol) but here's the video for anyone who hasn't already seen it.
There's a slow motion replay around 1:44. Unfortunately there aren't many angles.
That's likely true. Can't wait for the games next season!