13 votes

Fellow Canadians, what's on your mind this week?

I'm preoccupied with a couple of things.

The first being that the federal budget was just released and I'm feeling like a national school lunch program and an injection of money into housing with the expectation that cities build higher density dwellings is... Something they should have done mid mandate?

Is there even time to implement this stuff? Are we getting close to the point where we've spent too much?

Second is a quote from a compilation of personal accounts from travellers into this country's north in the 1800s. Farley Mowat assembled the stories and wrote the forward for "Tundra" in the 1960s and says the following

"Until 50 or 60 years ago, the Arctic was a living reality to North Americans of every walk of life. It had become real because men of their own kind were daring it's remote fastness in search of pure adventure", unprotected by the vast mechanical shields that we now demand whenever we step out of our air conditioned sanctuaries".

He goes on to talk about how -- most of all -- easily heated dwellings and running water had a softening effect on people, and that (basically) we fear and avoid Canada's climate far more than our forebearers did.

Wondering what people's thoughts on this are.

From what you learned from grandparents or earlier generations about spending time outside, would you agree that the comforts of home are just too damned seductive?

29 comments

  1. [8]
    unkz
    Link
    Uh no? I like not having to worry about surviving the elements. I have a lot of better things to do than subsistence.

    From what you learned from grandparents or earlier generations about spending time outside, would you agree that the comforts of home are just too damned seductive?

    Uh no? I like not having to worry about surviving the elements. I have a lot of better things to do than subsistence.

    9 votes
    1. [7]
      kingofsnake
      Link Parent
      Same, and I'd bet that everybody else will would answer like that too. Even if the arctic is a bridge too far for many of us, the point about comfortable homes sticks with me. Unlike some Nordic...

      Same, and I'd bet that everybody else will would answer like that too.

      Even if the arctic is a bridge too far for many of us, the point about comfortable homes sticks with me. Unlike some Nordic countries, Canada is known for lamenting winter, not embracing it. At the same time as it's a chance to drink tea, read books and play video games, it's also depression central, and as Mowat says, largely the result of having all of our creature comforts at home.

      Ideally, I'd love to be social outdoors and have a sweet place to rest in the winter, but I'm worried that the discomfort of cold weather keeps me from achieving both.

      1 vote
      1. [6]
        LasagnaLover
        Link Parent
        I'm going to challenge this here... though I want to hedge this by saying I do definitely wish we had a greater cultural appreciation for winter. It's something I personally enjoy a lot myself....

        it's also depression central, and as Mowat says, largely the result of having all of our creature comforts at home.

        I'm going to challenge this here... though I want to hedge this by saying I do definitely wish we had a greater cultural appreciation for winter. It's something I personally enjoy a lot myself.

        Mowat is an author and an environmentalist. He is not a doctor, psychologist, or scientist of any kind. Not only that, but he's repeatedly criticized for presenting fiction as fact. Taking his assertions of what causes depression is dangerous.

        We have several studies proving Seasonal Affective Disorder. Now, I do agree that a healthier attitude towards outdoor community and activity in the winter would be a great way to combat SAD, I see it as more of a problem with modern society's (and arguably late stage capitalism's) continuing isolation of the individual, rather than like, heaters and tea causing me to stay inside.

        I guess this is a roundabout way of saying I agree with your conclusion lol, I just disagree strongly with your premise.

        8 votes
        1. [2]
          gowestyoungman
          Link Parent
          Hmm, I would have to disagree. At least for me, its definitely the weather keeping me inside and not the tea. But I had the privilege of living in Hawaii for some time and thats when I realized...

          Hmm, I would have to disagree. At least for me, its definitely the weather keeping me inside and not the tea.

          But I had the privilege of living in Hawaii for some time and thats when I realized how I think we were made for consistently warmer weather. On the Big Island a warm day is 28c and a cold day is 18c and thats about the biggest range you'll ever experience. Given that room temperature is just about in the middle of those temps, the island is pretty much the same as living inside, except you're outside.

          And what a difference. Every day was shorts and a t-shirt day. A 'cold' day you might need a jacket but only because it was raining not because you're gonna freeze to death if you dont have one. And most nights you could still go out long after dark and still enjoy the mild evening temps and the gentle trade winds coming off the ocean. Quite a stark contrast to our evenings where night time temps can suddenly plummet into the freezing zone except for the warmest 3 or 4 months of the year.

          The other major bonus is that being so much closer to the equator the days are a much more consistent length. So people just get up with the sun and go to bed when it goes down. No need to have all the lights on and stay up, the days over man, just go to bed like everyone else on the island. I have to think that SAD is just not much of a thing in Hawaii because there are no radical shifts in sunlight from season to season.

          2 votes
          1. sparksbet
            Link Parent
            I have really bad SAD and I've lamented to my wife before that I'd ideally live somewhere with mild/warm winters closer to the equator, but that the overlap between that and the other things I...

            I have really bad SAD and I've lamented to my wife before that I'd ideally live somewhere with mild/warm winters closer to the equator, but that the overlap between that and the other things I desire in a place to live -- public healthcare, walkable cities, and good social policies when it comes to trans people -- basically doesn't exist.

            2 votes
        2. [3]
          kingofsnake
          Link Parent
          Hah, and I was wondering when somebody would come out to call him "Hardly Know-It" as he himself is the first to admit that he doesn't let facts get in the way of a good story. About late stage...

          Hah, and I was wondering when somebody would come out to call him "Hardly Know-It" as he himself is the first to admit that he doesn't let facts get in the way of a good story.

          About late stage capitalism being a driver of isolation, I'm not going to disagree. That said, I think that there are plenty of aspects of our culture that you could lay the blame of isolation at the feet of, including the state of our economic model. A culture critic (which I'd absolutely consider Mowat) do any need doctor's credentials to see the trend toward and effects of Euclidean zoning in cities in the 60s, and the social costs that it, the nuclear family and the automobile had on the society.

          On SAD, it's absolutely a thing, though I do wonder whether (again, in the 60's) because people needed to leave their houses for essentials, went to church (and socialized in the process) more than we did today, the effects of seasonal mood disorders were far less acute.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            LasagnaLover
            Link Parent
            Yeah I generally agree with what you write here, especially your last paragraph. I also don't mean to overly detract from the value of artists, writers or cultural critics to society, we could use...

            Yeah I generally agree with what you write here, especially your last paragraph. I also don't mean to overly detract from the value of artists, writers or cultural critics to society, we could use more of both right now.

            I just hesitate anytime discussion of public health type decisions include material from non-medical/policy experts.

            2 votes
            1. kingofsnake
              Link Parent
              Especially after the last 5 years of politicians, celebrities and everybody else lampooning and refusing expertise. Yeah, I feel ya ;).

              Especially after the last 5 years of politicians, celebrities and everybody else lampooning and refusing expertise. Yeah, I feel ya ;).

              1 vote
  2. [14]
    Wafik
    Link
    Probably, but at least we get it now in an attempt to stave off PP. It's probably too little too late unfortunately. I am tired of Trudeau and wish he would have accomplished more while avoiding...

    Something they should have done mid mandate?

    Probably, but at least we get it now in an attempt to stave off PP. It's probably too little too late unfortunately. I am tired of Trudeau and wish he would have accomplished more while avoiding as many controversies, but the biggest issue is his fumbling will probably result in Canada being stuck with PP. That will almost certainly cause lasting damage. We don't need someone owned by oil and gas when we need to be combating climate change. I wish the conservatives could nominate someone normal instead of people like PP. Trudeau started the process of Canada falling into irrelevance internationally and I assume PP will make it worse.

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      kingofsnake
      Link Parent
      I'm typically a liberal or NDP voter, but I think that we missed our chance at a sane conservative when Erin O'Toole wasn't elected to run the country during the last round. This whole thing goes...

      I'm typically a liberal or NDP voter, but I think that we missed our chance at a sane conservative when Erin O'Toole wasn't elected to run the country during the last round.

      This whole thing goes in cycles and that was left's hand fold, not hold.

      2 votes
      1. Wafik
        Link Parent
        It is amazing what hindsight will do. I didn't like him, but there wasn't much crazy about him. I just disagreed with his policies, which is how it should be.

        It is amazing what hindsight will do. I didn't like him, but there wasn't much crazy about him. I just disagreed with his policies, which is how it should be.

        1 vote
    2. [11]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      With all do respect we have lasting damage now, from Trudeau's tenure. The fastest growing housing costs in the western world, unafordable rent, unafordable food. Healthcare collapsing under a...

      That will almost certainly cause lasting damage

      With all do respect we have lasting damage now, from Trudeau's tenure.

      The fastest growing housing costs in the western world, unafordable rent, unafordable food. Healthcare collapsing under a strain it hasn't ever before seen, four years on from the Pandemic. The Canadian economy is stagnating and lagging behind our contemporaries, which will itself have knock on effects towards livelihoods. People can't afford to live right now and this all occurred under Justin Trudeau's watch.

      To be frank all this whining about PP seems disingenuous. Our lives, in every province, are quantifiably and demonstrably worse now than when the Conservatives were last in power.

      2 votes
      1. [10]
        Wafik
        Link Parent
        I'm sure you're aware that Healthcare is controlled by the provinces and so blaming Trudeau for that is a little disingenuous. Otherwise, I would generally agree with you. I'm not happy with...

        Healthcare collapsing under a strain it hasn't ever before seen, four years on from the Pandemic.

        I'm sure you're aware that Healthcare is controlled by the provinces and so blaming Trudeau for that is a little disingenuous.

        Otherwise, I would generally agree with you. I'm not happy with Trudeau, but you're lying to yourself if you think PP will do anything to help most Canadians. Everything you describe can be turned around or worked on. I'm still waiting on PP to announce the actual policy he plans to enact to fix anything you listed.

        Change for change's sake is not always the solution. Sadly, while we have multiple political parties no one seriously believes anyone besides the Liberals or Conservatives will win an election so we are stuck with the shitty leader we know or the shitty leader we don't know.

        7 votes
        1. [2]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Housing is also largely in the hands of the provinces and municipalities as well due to zoning laws and housing regulations. So, genuinely with all due respect, @Loire, I think you've honestly...

          Housing is also largely in the hands of the provinces and municipalities as well due to zoning laws and housing regulations. So, genuinely with all due respect, @Loire, I think you've honestly misplaced your anger on that one too, by blaming the issue so much on Trudeau. Just because an issue occurs during a PMs tenure does not mean they are to blame for it. And I say that as someone who is also not a fan of him for other reasons (*cough* first-past-the-post broken promise, lying sack of shit *cough*).

          5 votes
          1. Wafik
            Link Parent
            Yeah good point. And seriously, I bet he wishes he would have reformed elections now.

            Yeah good point. And seriously, I bet he wishes he would have reformed elections now.

            3 votes
        2. [7]
          Loire
          Link Parent
          When things have gotten this bad under a single group of leaders then change for change's sake is an imperative. You're right we have a shitty leader we know, that has made our lives worse, and a...

          Change for change's sake is not always the solution.

          When things have gotten this bad under a single group of leaders then change for change's sake is an imperative.

          You're right we have a shitty leader we know, that has made our lives worse, and a "shitty" leader we don't know, that hasn't had a chance to do anything, so how do we know he's shitty? Is he shitty because we've been told he's shitty? Like we were told Harper was shitty, and we were told Scheer was shitty, and we were told O'Toole was shitty?

          Isn't it quite the coincidence that every single human being that stands under the blue flag is automatically shitty without evidence (with the exception of Harper)?

          I would love for a Jack Layton (or Rachel Notley...) type to run this country but that's not a reality at our disposal right now. You want better government's? Hold their feet to the fire next time they promise you electoral reform and then back away.

          I'm still waiting on PP to announce the actual policy he plans to enact to fix anything you listed.

          We are two years out from the election. It's extremely unusual for any party to release their platform before the writ is dropped?

          I'm sure you're aware that Healthcare is controlled by the provinces and so blaming Trudeau for that is a little disingenuous.

          Healthcare is regularly directed by the federal government when they see fit, generally through funds tied to mandates. For example now that the writing is on the wall Justin Trudeau, 9 years into his leadership, has begun doing exactly that.

          The same goes for housing, a nominally provincial responsibility, regularely directed by the federal leaders.

          So no I was not being disingenuous. I encourage you not the believe the excuses from our government (of any colour) when they say "Such and such is a provincial responsibility". It's generally an excuse to shunt blame and when it becomes politically damaging they will find a way to make it their responsibility.

          And on strictly Federal responsibilities, increasing our immigration rates by 100% since 2019, and by 300% since 2015, puts extreme pressure on infrastructure, housing, healthcare, and wages.

          @cfabbro since I don't want to type it out twice.

          My anger at Trudeau is well placed. I truly don't understand how you could look around at what's happening to our fellow Canadians and not be.

          2 votes
          1. Wafik
            Link Parent
            If you honestly believe Ontario's failing healthcare is Trudeau's fault instead of Doug Ford then we will have to agree to disagree. Trudeau put conditions on the money so that Ford didn't just...

            Healthcare is regularly directed by the federal government when they see fit, generally through funds tied to mandates. For example now that the writing is on the wall Justin Trudeau, 9 years into his leadership, has begun doing exactly that.

            If you honestly believe Ontario's failing healthcare is Trudeau's fault instead of Doug Ford then we will have to agree to disagree. Trudeau put conditions on the money so that Ford didn't just spend less or redirect it. Ford is literally destroying our healthcare by underfunding it so he can claim it's bad and say the only solution is private options.

            Every Canadian should be outraged at what he is doing. I suggest you look past your hate of Trudeau to see who is actually destroying our healthcare.

            8 votes
          2. [5]
            kingofsnake
            Link Parent
            Where I'm expecting this federal government to inherit most of their blame is (like the US) they spent like there was no tomorrow, and now that interest rates are insane, we're likely to see...

            Where I'm expecting this federal government to inherit most of their blame is (like the US) they spent like there was no tomorrow, and now that interest rates are insane, we're likely to see program cuts across the board in the coming decade in order to service ballooning debt.

            I absolutely believe that PP is playing a dangerous political game and that he should absolutely be judged accordingly. Scheer was no darling either, though I think that we missed an opportunity in not electing Erin O'Toole.

            1. [4]
              Loire
              Link Parent
              See that's the one area I don't (fully) blame Trudeau. I do blame him for the spending but the inflation isn't related to that. Canada has actually tackled inflation quite well relative to most...

              See that's the one area I don't (fully) blame Trudeau. I do blame him for the spending but the inflation isn't related to that. Canada has actually tackled inflation quite well relative to most other countries on the planet in the same time frame (although there is some emerging evidence our weak economic performance is playing a big part in dampening the inflation).

              1. [3]
                kingofsnake
                Link Parent
                Inflation may not be, but the cost of servicing debt becomes a major issue that takes away from programs and projects the worse it gets. I'm in favour of most things outlined in the next budget,...

                Inflation may not be, but the cost of servicing debt becomes a major issue that takes away from programs and projects the worse it gets. I'm in favour of most things outlined in the next budget, but I really feel like they're trying to look good and spend money rather than think prudently about this country's financial future.

                2 votes
                1. [2]
                  gowestyoungman
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  Not only not thinking of Canada's financial future, but I honestly get the distinct feeling that they really dont care about debt or debt servicing. The LPC seem to believe they can spend their...

                  Not only not thinking of Canada's financial future, but I honestly get the distinct feeling that they really dont care about debt or debt servicing. The LPC seem to believe they can spend their way to prosperity. This is, after all, the PM who, as the pandemic was raging, said he would like to have 100% control over gov spending with no voting, no oversight. Just spend as he saw fit?!? Just crazy to even propose that.

                  And the wastefulness keeps coming; We have the 62 million with the sham of the ArriveCan app, with the $20,000 ventilators that were just scrapped for $6 each, with the $323 million given out for the Medicago vaccine (in Quebec of course) that never made it market and for the BILLIONS of dollars that was handed out willy nilly because it was an 'emergency' and therefore it appears there was very little vetting and a ton of fraudulent claims, especially from large companies.

                  Given their "Spend, spend, spend!" mindset, the LPC dont seem to care about 1.2 TRILLION of debt, by far the biggest debt Canada has ever had, or the 40 BILLION deficit in the budget - either it will work (it won't) or it won't be their problem because as soon as the Conservatives take power they can watch the cost cutting, the layoffs, the service rollbacks and blame them for 'not caring about Canadians'. As if loading us up with over a trillion dollars of debt is somehow "caring" about us. We have one of the worst debt to GDP ratios in the developed world.

                  I find it rather infuriating actually, and as someone who budgets carefully because my future depends on it, I have to wonder how much different things would be, if our MPs pensions were directly tied to the debt and their ability to reduce it.

                  1. kingofsnake
                    Link Parent
                    Yeah, I'm not fussed on it either. I get that in a country like ours, the biggest investor is always going to be the government. In Alberta, we wouldn't have a pipeline to tidewater had government...

                    Yeah, I'm not fussed on it either. I get that in a country like ours, the biggest investor is always going to be the government. In Alberta, we wouldn't have a pipeline to tidewater had government not invested. Whether it's a cross country railroad, highway or any other large piece of infrastructure, that's the reality of living in a low population federation.

                    That said, I too appreciate a balanced budget of bills to income at the end of the month, and while I'm aware that government debt logic doesn't resemble the household's, there still comes a time when you have to stop borrowing.

                    To me, this government is taking an activist stance with their spending assuming that they'll be in power to see these things through, and that this country actually has the capacity to realize their good intentions. Houses won't build themselves, daycares need staff and we're hardly equipped to roll out a lunch program as soon as they'd like.

                    You can't just pay McKinsey crazy rates every time you need a fast solution to a wicked problem. I wish that like the NDP (confidence and supply agreement) the conservatives could put down the pitchfork long enough to work with the government on longterm projects that they intend to carry past the next election.

                    This country's leadership needs to focus more on the public and less on politics.

                    1 vote
  3. [7]
    gowestyoungman
    Link
    Well, I still live in the boonies in northern Canada, out in the country and there is something to be said for it toughening you up a bit more than living in a big city. For example, while I was...

    Well, I still live in the boonies in northern Canada, out in the country and there is something to be said for it toughening you up a bit more than living in a big city. For example, while I was away on a trip last winter, we ran out of well water, which happens occasionally, but my wife, being a tough Canadian prairie girl, didnt want to bother anyone to haul in some water. So for a week, she went outside and gatherex snow in a big pot and melted it on the stove, which is what they did in winter when she was a kid 50 years ago. Pretty sure most city dwellers would have a cow if their water was off for a week lol.

    We also heat our house with a woodstove when we can so that means cutting a lot of wood. I got lucky and got a free load of hardwoods from a local pipe yard so I only had to cut up a huge pile of 4x4 oak and birch which makes ideal fuel, but its still work compared to just turning on the furnace. But my total heating bill for the winter was very low compared to other years.

    But after 45 years of city dwelling, I gotta say I LOVE living in the country. I can unequivocally agree that its better for your mental health not to hearing traffic all day, not to be fighting traffic just to leave your driveway, not to have to deal with crowds of people. And the physiological benefits of being surrounded by nature - trees, grass, water, wide open sky, instead of concrete, asphalt and buildings - is well documented and its absolutely true. There are moments that approach blissfulness that I cant say I ever experienced in the city. And the privacy is spectacular - I used to hate having a nosy neighbor who always peered over my fence to ask what I was doing, as if every backyard project was a community thing.

    10 points for Canada. 100 points for rural Canada. 1000 points for private, nature filled, blissful life in the boonies of Canada. (To be fair, I may have had a slightly less rosy picture in mid February when the temp plummeted to -42c. I hate the cold but the woodstove takes away a lot of my blues)

    3 votes
    1. Wafik
      Link Parent
      I think one of the great things about Canada is how close many of our cities are to more rural areas. I live in Hamilton, east of the downtown core so already nothing too loud and no big issue...

      I think one of the great things about Canada is how close many of our cities are to more rural areas.

      I live in Hamilton, east of the downtown core so already nothing too loud and no big issue with traffic. If I want to be rural, then I just have to drive 20 minutes to my in-laws. They have a large property, quiet and easily can be there for hours without seeing/hearing another person or having anyone drive by.

      If I want the city, I drive west for 10 minutes and I get all the perks of downtown Hamilton.

      Obviously doesn't work as well in Toronto, but pretty true of most other cities.

      3 votes
    2. [5]
      kingofsnake
      Link Parent
      For us city dwellers, I feel like it's difficult to understand much less appreciate your enthusiasm for wood stoves, melting snow and sparse populations. My wife spent years in a village of 60 on...

      For us city dwellers, I feel like it's difficult to understand much less appreciate your enthusiasm for wood stoves, melting snow and sparse populations.

      My wife spent years in a village of 60 on the northwest side of Vancouver Island and routinely talks up the experience of heat from a wood stove, growing your own vegetables and a more silent life out there. It can depend a little romantic at times, but I'm more convinced each time that there's something important about the country life that you can't and won't get in the city.

      Cool post - I wonder if you'd enjoy this Mowat book. Are you in the territories?

      2 votes
      1. [4]
        gowestyoungman
        Link Parent
        Not quite. Not far from it though. I could drive there in less than a day.

        Not quite. Not far from it though. I could drive there in less than a day.

        1 vote