Maybe I'm a little jaded right now. They're still going to sell ads, and they're hoping ads make money because people will somehow want to make apps with them and they get a cut of sales? I would...
Maybe I'm a little jaded right now. They're still going to sell ads, and they're hoping ads make money because people will somehow want to make apps with them and they get a cut of sales?
I would love it if they were planning on making SEO completely obsolete and selling it to governments so citizens can get a clean web paid for, or even individual subscription model. But if they're just going to sell ads and going for more rounds of VC and IPO, it's just the same caca over and over again, even if their product is currently amazing.
I think the feelings of being jaded are reasonable given how you, I, and several others are dealing with disillusionment of the internet. Nowadays every website, application, and more has to be...
I think the feelings of being jaded are reasonable given how you, I, and several others are dealing with disillusionment of the internet. Nowadays every website, application, and more has to be packed with ads and ad tracking in order to provide some type of return on its creation. Perhaps it's a "Netflixification" of the web; nothing new or no new shows are ever really created, those that don't return enough profits or views are shut down or canceled, and you find yourself returning to the same conglomerated platforms or reruns of the same shows. There is no entertaining something just existing because it's fun or cool, but now it must have a profitable reason to even be considered.
When I was learning iOS development for applications, I increasingly felt irked by the tech-bro culture to make the biggest bang for your buck. For each issue I would research, I had to wade through the commentary of efficiencies and users, nothing felt genuine for the sake of just making something better. Even when I was working on my degree, my classes were seaped with case studies adoring tech giants like Meta/Google/Twitter and having to discuss why they become popular. They were promoted to be idolized because why else did you go to get a tech related degree? You want to be successful like them right because that's the whole point of going to school? If they can make big money in tech then so can you and you would be a fool if you didn't?
While I admire the intentions to diversify search engine options, I struggle to actually consider that they would be any different if they are so profit driven. SalesForce is one of those tech giants and they have probably been surrounded by that tech-bro culture. You don't get into the position they were at SalesForce and having the ego to make a new offering without drinking some of that kool-aid. Because why else would they even bother to attempt doing so in the first place?
oh very much so :( succint. There's even a sort of pull on human beings to fit into that lens: There's no entertaining somebody just existing because they're having fun and doing cool things; now...
oh very much so :(
There is no entertaining something just existing because it's fun or cool, but now it must have a profitable reason to even be considered.
succint. There's even a sort of pull on human beings to fit into that lens:
There's no entertaining somebody just existing because they're having fun and doing cool things; now each person must have a profitable reason to exist and even be considered a member of our society. There are no hobbies anymore, only side hustles. There are no friends, only "social network" that you data mine from and get jobs from and sell tchotchke to. There are no families, just financial liabilities and tax deductible entities.
For a subscription based and ad free search engine, I've been using Kagi for about a month now. I've honestly been really liking it. It's a bit on the pricey side but the search results and its...
For a subscription based and ad free search engine, I've been using Kagi for about a month now. I've honestly been really liking it. It's a bit on the pricey side but the search results and its features make up for it for me.
They have their own index that they combine with Bing's and Google's indexes as well and you can rank websites so they're more or less likely to appear higher up, or block them outright. It prioritises websites without trackers.
I've tried using Duckduckgo before, but the search results have always felt... bad. With Kagi, I've never had to go to Google when not finding something on Kagi, except for image search which sometimes doesn't have a ton of results
OH excellent! first thing I would do is ban all results from etsy and pinterest "results". the pricing isn't...outrageous, but it'll take some getting used to paying for things instead of having...
OH excellent!
first thing I would do is ban all results from etsy and pinterest "results".
the pricing isn't...outrageous, but it'll take some getting used to paying for things instead of having bad ones for free. I wish they had a "pay towards annual if you like it within 6 months" :)
Yeah, maybe I made the pricing sound more dramatic than it is! What surprised me is how many searches I make per month. I naively thought I could go with the cheapest tier but turns out I do...
Yeah, maybe I made the pricing sound more dramatic than it is! What surprised me is how many searches I make per month. I naively thought I could go with the cheapest tier but turns out I do around ~1200 searches per month! So I'm on the mid-tier which is 1000 and then pay the 1.5 cents for each additional search :p
indeed - a quick look in my browser history and it's a TON of searches. I think if I like it there I'll probably just have to spring for unlimited searches - don't like being nickle/dimed and I...
indeed - a quick look in my browser history and it's a TON of searches. I think if I like it there I'll probably just have to spring for unlimited searches - don't like being nickle/dimed and I still remember the horrors of early cell phone SMS days......
So far good things:
was quite easy to set up a "lens" (eg search results filter) to exclude amazon, etsy, pinterest
Somewhat downside:
They keep telling me about "zero telemetry" being a feature without telling me what it is at all. Their own "help" section search results return 0 useful information on what it is.
I think the 10€ plan with additional pay-per-search will be cheaper on average than the unlimited plan, so if you're going to pay for it, I recommend trying that. They give you nice stats in the...
I think the 10€ plan with additional pay-per-search will be cheaper on average than the unlimited plan, so if you're going to pay for it, I recommend trying that. They give you nice stats in the settings page about your daily and monthly searches.
About zero telemetry, I wouldn't know for sure, but I think what they mean is that they basically store no data about you or your searches. For example, they don't store your search history. There is a toggle in the settings for "Save My Search History" that can't be turned on and says:
Currently this option can not be turned on. Kagi does not save any searches by default. In the future we may add features that will utilize your search history and then we will allow you to enable this.
But as you said, it is unclear. My reasons for using Kagi are not privacy or anonymity, so I haven't thought about it too much!
EDIT: Maybe you know already but you don't have to use a lens to block search results. If you want them gone permanently, you can hover over the shield on the right of a search: https://i.imgur.com/ITkMPnC.png
that's a neat feature, the shield, basically letting each user "vote up or down" result rankings. very very neat..... edit: found an old hackernews post about Kagi, with good discussion, with some...
that's a neat feature, the shield, basically letting each user "vote up or down" result rankings. very very neat.....
edit: found an old hackernews post about Kagi, with good discussion, with some input from the creator here
I certainly don't begrudge Kagi for charging, but I also have reservations about why they are charging: they're paying Google and Bing for their API costs Which means, the moment Kagi becomes...
I certainly don't begrudge Kagi for charging, but I also have reservations about why they are charging: they're paying Google and Bing for their API costs
Which means, the moment Kagi becomes anything at all resembling a rival, or when the Eye Of Sauron turns upon Kagi, Google/Bing are just going to jack up their API cost until Kagi disappears.
The Internet, in my opinion, is something that needs to be viewed as a common resource for humanity, and shared + guarded with the help of non-profits and state level actors, or even international bodies to address the growing information gap. Do they want informed citizens who has access to non-fake news and non-profit driven drivel? I wish I could say that's an easy yes.
They aren't going to sell your data... yet. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I don't see how they could make a sustainably profitable alternative to Google's search juggernaut without mimicking their...
They aren't going to sell your data... yet. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I don't see how they could make a sustainably profitable alternative to Google's search juggernaut without mimicking their ad targeting at some level. Tha average user doesn't seem worried enough about privacy to spring to a new alternative and as long as Google search is still active, advertisers are going to pay more to advertise there and take advantage of their targeting algorithm.
Socher and McCann created You.com, a privacy-focused search engine that’s completely customizable. Marc Benioff, who backs the company and also gave the duo its domain name, called You.com "the future of search." Since launching in public beta in November 2021, Socher said it’s amassed “several hundreds of thousands” of searches and a 50% retention rate of its user base.
We really think that the world needs a better search engine. We kind of have a situation where the entire economy is moving online, and to have a single gatekeeper that wants to sell you to the highest bidding advertiser, and that can't be the right setup.
Maybe I'm a little jaded right now. They're still going to sell ads, and they're hoping ads make money because people will somehow want to make apps with them and they get a cut of sales?
I would love it if they were planning on making SEO completely obsolete and selling it to governments so citizens can get a clean web paid for, or even individual subscription model. But if they're just going to sell ads and going for more rounds of VC and IPO, it's just the same caca over and over again, even if their product is currently amazing.
I think the feelings of being jaded are reasonable given how you, I, and several others are dealing with disillusionment of the internet. Nowadays every website, application, and more has to be packed with ads and ad tracking in order to provide some type of return on its creation. Perhaps it's a "Netflixification" of the web; nothing new or no new shows are ever really created, those that don't return enough profits or views are shut down or canceled, and you find yourself returning to the same conglomerated platforms or reruns of the same shows. There is no entertaining something just existing because it's fun or cool, but now it must have a profitable reason to even be considered.
When I was learning iOS development for applications, I increasingly felt irked by the tech-bro culture to make the biggest bang for your buck. For each issue I would research, I had to wade through the commentary of efficiencies and users, nothing felt genuine for the sake of just making something better. Even when I was working on my degree, my classes were seaped with case studies adoring tech giants like Meta/Google/Twitter and having to discuss why they become popular. They were promoted to be idolized because why else did you go to get a tech related degree? You want to be successful like them right because that's the whole point of going to school? If they can make big money in tech then so can you and you would be a fool if you didn't?
While I admire the intentions to diversify search engine options, I struggle to actually consider that they would be any different if they are so profit driven. SalesForce is one of those tech giants and they have probably been surrounded by that tech-bro culture. You don't get into the position they were at SalesForce and having the ego to make a new offering without drinking some of that kool-aid. Because why else would they even bother to attempt doing so in the first place?
oh very much so :(
succint. There's even a sort of pull on human beings to fit into that lens:
There's no entertaining somebody just existing because they're having fun and doing cool things; now each person must have a profitable reason to exist and even be considered a member of our society. There are no hobbies anymore, only side hustles. There are no friends, only "social network" that you data mine from and get jobs from and sell tchotchke to. There are no families, just financial liabilities and tax deductible entities.
For a subscription based and ad free search engine, I've been using Kagi for about a month now. I've honestly been really liking it. It's a bit on the pricey side but the search results and its features make up for it for me.
They have their own index that they combine with Bing's and Google's indexes as well and you can rank websites so they're more or less likely to appear higher up, or block them outright. It prioritises websites without trackers.
I've tried using Duckduckgo before, but the search results have always felt... bad. With Kagi, I've never had to go to Google when not finding something on Kagi, except for image search which sometimes doesn't have a ton of results
OH excellent!
first thing I would do is ban all results from etsy and pinterest "results".
the pricing isn't...outrageous, but it'll take some getting used to paying for things instead of having bad ones for free. I wish they had a "pay towards annual if you like it within 6 months" :)
Yeah, maybe I made the pricing sound more dramatic than it is! What surprised me is how many searches I make per month. I naively thought I could go with the cheapest tier but turns out I do around ~1200 searches per month! So I'm on the mid-tier which is 1000 and then pay the 1.5 cents for each additional search :p
indeed - a quick look in my browser history and it's a TON of searches. I think if I like it there I'll probably just have to spring for unlimited searches - don't like being nickle/dimed and I still remember the horrors of early cell phone SMS days......
So far good things:
was quite easy to set up a "lens" (eg search results filter) to exclude amazon, etsy, pinterest
Somewhat downside:
They keep telling me about "zero telemetry" being a feature without telling me what it is at all. Their own "help" section search results return 0 useful information on what it is.
I think the 10€ plan with additional pay-per-search will be cheaper on average than the unlimited plan, so if you're going to pay for it, I recommend trying that. They give you nice stats in the settings page about your daily and monthly searches.
About zero telemetry, I wouldn't know for sure, but I think what they mean is that they basically store no data about you or your searches. For example, they don't store your search history. There is a toggle in the settings for "Save My Search History" that can't be turned on and says:
But as you said, it is unclear. My reasons for using Kagi are not privacy or anonymity, so I haven't thought about it too much!
EDIT: Maybe you know already but you don't have to use a lens to block search results. If you want them gone permanently, you can hover over the shield on the right of a search: https://i.imgur.com/ITkMPnC.png
that's a neat feature, the shield, basically letting each user "vote up or down" result rankings. very very neat.....
edit: found an old hackernews post about Kagi, with good discussion, with some input from the creator here
I certainly don't begrudge Kagi for charging, but I also have reservations about why they are charging: they're paying Google and Bing for their API costs
Which means, the moment Kagi becomes anything at all resembling a rival, or when the Eye Of Sauron turns upon Kagi, Google/Bing are just going to jack up their API cost until Kagi disappears.
The Internet, in my opinion, is something that needs to be viewed as a common resource for humanity, and shared + guarded with the help of non-profits and state level actors, or even international bodies to address the growing information gap. Do they want informed citizens who has access to non-fake news and non-profit driven drivel? I wish I could say that's an easy yes.
Other than Brave, are there any other players with independent search indexes?
They aren't going to sell your data... yet. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I don't see how they could make a sustainably profitable alternative to Google's search juggernaut without mimicking their ad targeting at some level. Tha average user doesn't seem worried enough about privacy to spring to a new alternative and as long as Google search is still active, advertisers are going to pay more to advertise there and take advantage of their targeting algorithm.
Archived: https://archive.is/VHhNl