Curious if you've looked at pop os? I've started using it lately and I find it's pretty much the same as Ubuntu but with a better ux.
I've tried every other "user-focused" distro and DE under the sun, and I won't name any names, but y'all motherfuckers are lying if you tell me that you don't spend hours per week troubleshooting dependencies and configuration on alternatives
Curious if you've looked at pop os? I've started using it lately and I find it's pretty much the same as Ubuntu but with a better ux.
I've got a System76 Oryx Pro, purchased a few months ago, running Pop!_OS. I'm far from the typical user, in that I'm not very techy and this is my first full Linux machine, and I don't really...
I've got a System76 Oryx Pro, purchased a few months ago, running Pop!_OS.
I'm far from the typical user, in that I'm not very techy and this is my first full Linux machine, and I don't really need it to do much beyond get me online, store/open/edit my files, and play my games. I'm using it 95% of the time as a desktop replacement and 5% of the time as a laptop.
The only thing I can compare Pop!_OS to was Manjaro (XFCE), which I ran before getting this computer, though it's hardly a good comparison at all since that was running on hardware that was about a decade old. I was amazed at how Manjaro gave my hardware new life, but it was definitely rough around the edges, and I ran into lots of problems that required troubleshooting. Thus far, I haven't really run into any of those same issues with Pop!_OS, though again, it's hardly a fair comparison given that it's running on modern hardware that it is specifically designed for. I also haven't done a big upgrade yet (19.10 will be my first), so that will be more of a true test for how stable it is.
Going from Windows and XFCE to GNOME was a bit of a hop for me. It's apparently popular to hate on GNOME in some circles, so I wasn't sure how I'd feel about it given how much negative stuff I'd read, but now that I'm used to it I find it simple, elegant, and functional. I can definitely see how its limitations would bother power users, but as a simple user it's great.
Thus far I haven't experienced any concerns about build quality, though you can read mixed reviews online for System76, so take my experience entirely as an anecdote of one, based only on a short time with the machine. Heat dissipation is a huge issue, but that seems to be the case with any gaming laptop. The laptop lives on a fan base that I run whenever I game, which alleviates the issue. Without it, however, the top left of the machine gets very hot to the touch and would give anyone using it sweaty, possibly singed WASD fingers.
I think this feature is specific to Pop!_OS (not entirely sure), but I can easily swap between using the NVIDIA card in the computer and the Intel integrated graphics, so if I'm ever using it as a laptop (rarely), I can swap to the integrated card and get a ton more battery life, which is great. On the NVIDIA card I get maybe an hour and a half max (far less if I'm actually gaming), but I can get several hours while on the Intel integrated and battery saver mode.
You definitely pay a premium for System76, and I was able to justify the high cost with the idea that my experience with the machine should be frictionless -- kind of what a lot of people like Macs for. A lot of other people seem to scoff at this markup and because they can get similar hardware for much cheaper, but they're also the kind of people with the knowhow to get that hardware up and running smoothly. I'm not someone like that, so the higher cost was reasonable to me. The biggest thing I'm unhappy about is that a replacement power adapter costs ~$120 plus shipping, and they won't budge on that (I tried!).
Great to hear! I hope it works out for you. That is exactly how I feel about mine. Its high cost is easy to justify when based on the assumption that I will get thousands of hours of use out of...
Great to hear! I hope it works out for you.
This laptop better last for what I'm paying, though.
That is exactly how I feel about mine. Its high cost is easy to justify when based on the assumption that I will get thousands of hours of use out of it, but if it isn't able to meet that demand or its hours get cut short, I'm going to be quite the unhappy camper.
The cost of computers in general is overblown, depending on use case. If you're a developer, the amortized difference in cost of this device you not only stake your livelihood in (ok probably have...
The cost of computers in general is overblown, depending on use case. If you're a developer, the amortized difference in cost of this device you not only stake your livelihood in (ok probably have company computers for work provided but still) but spend multiple hours every day on comes out to be tiny.
I really don't care that much about the nitty gritty price when looking for a new laptop.
So this seems like a good a place as any for me to vent about Pop!_OS. I've been using linux for 20+ years now, mostly debian unstable. I've grown accustomed to dealing with stupid linux problems,...
So this seems like a good a place as any for me to vent about Pop!_OS. I've been using linux for 20+ years now, mostly debian unstable. I've grown accustomed to dealing with stupid linux problems, and I've always attributed that to me pushing the boundaries and dealing with the problems of using bleeding edge software. These days I feel like I'm getting older and I'm not up for extra troubleshooting of stuff, but I'm not willing to run debian stable and miss out on new features for months or years. I figured since ubuntu is like a polished debian, and pop_os is an even more polished ubuntu, everything should just work and I'll never have "linux problems" again.
Well, to some degree that was true. A lot of stuff worked out of the box and everything was a more cohesive, polished experience than I've found on other distros. But, I can't help but feel like it's all a facade and we're still not at the mythical "year of the linux desktop". Lots of stuff I expected to work just didn't. Want to switch keyboard layouts? Typing "keyboard" into the launcher search brings up some arcane keyboard layout editor written in tk in 1998.
The biggest thing Pop_OS promised is support for optimus laptops. Switching to nvidia graphics isn't some realtime switch though, it's an option you select that takes like 15-20 seconds to switch, then requires a reboot. What's crazy though is it sometimes fails. Like, surely it's just moving around some conf files, or hell, even changing a few symlinks, yet somehow this process takes 15 seconds on a NVMe SSD, and sometimes it doesn't work? Then it requires a reboot! I've configured bumblebee / primus / optirun before in such a way I can enable my GPU for only specific games, without rebooting, yet this requires the GPU to be either fully on all the time or fully off. I still have no idea how moving conf files around can take 20 seconds and then fail. It makes no sense.
Anyway, updating to 19.10 yesterday hosed my system, and reminded me I still can't install linux for old people without having to deal with "linux problems" even in 2019. For whatever reason updating seemed to remove gdm3, gnome-shell, nautilus, etc, booting me into a command-line. Trying to apt install pop-session reveals a bunch of dependency problems with nautilus.
Googling these problems didn't bring up much, and I can't find anyone else suffering the same problems I did, so I'm not sure if this maybe caused by my configuration or something, but in any case it shattered my illusions about "just works" distros.
edit: TL;DR: Pop!_OS seems like a good guy, but the emperor wears no clothes here. You rip off the mask scooby doo style and it turns out it was debian sid all along.
Optimus can't be helped, man. Fortunately, things seems to be moving slowly in the right direction. Nvidia is slowly start supporting it. I made it work with Fedora using the beta drivers and a...
Optimus can't be helped, man.
Fortunately, things seems to be moving slowly in the right direction. Nvidia is slowly start supporting it.
I made it work with Fedora using the beta drivers and a patched Xorg. The code will be merged in the new Xorg, but who knows when this release will come. Someone on Fedora made a copr (custom repository) with the patches applied to the actual version and i know have Optimus working without any hacks.
Sure the nvidia card never goes entirely off, this only works for turing cards for now. But it consumes less power and i can choose inside applications if i want to use nvidia or intel. Final fantasy XII gives me the option, Dolphin (gamecube emulator) too.
I was trying to come up with a smarmy answer about how great GalliumOS is in this regard, but then I realized that it, too, is based on Ubuntu. So yeah, you've got me there. That being said, I...
I've tried every other "user-focused" distro and DE under the sun, and I won't name any names, but y'all motherfuckers are lying if you tell me that you don't spend hours per week troubleshooting dependencies and configuration on alternatives.
I was trying to come up with a smarmy answer about how great GalliumOS is in this regard, but then I realized that it, too, is based on Ubuntu. So yeah, you've got me there.
That being said, I have been using Ubuntu based distros for the longest time specifically because I value how much work has been made to make sure it works out of the box. Long gone is the time I would have appreciated the challenge of fixing broken software configurations.
In hopes of saving someone a few searches that I had to make myself: "Eoan" means "of or relating to the dawn or the east" and is probably pronounced either "ee--OH-UN" or "ee-UH-OOH-un".1...
In hopes of saving someone a few searches that I had to make myself:
"Eoan" means "of or relating to the dawn or the east" and is probably pronounced either "ee--OH-UN" or "ee-UH-OOH-un".1
"Ermine" refers to a type of short-tailed weasel also called a "stoat," and is known for its pure white winter coat.2
1: These are bad transliterations of the word, based on my shaky knowledge of phonetic symbols, sourced from two different (and disagreeing) sources on how to say it, so I'm very probably wrong. If anyone else has a better handle on this, please set the record straight!
2: This is based off of about 10 seconds of looking at a Wikipedia page, so there's a good chance I missed the mark here as well.
I have a kinda related tech support query.I have heard when upgrading, some of your ppas become disabled. Would that apply here? Or is it only for some updates? My web searching taught me how to...
I have a kinda related tech support query.I have heard when upgrading, some of your ppas become disabled. Would that apply here? Or is it only for some updates?
My web searching taught me how to reenable them, so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
If they are disabled, will that uninstall the packages that use the ppa?
I believe it applies for any version-number upgrade, so yes, if you upgrade from 19.04 to 19.10, your PPAs will be disabled. No, the packages will stick around, unless there is now a newer version...
Would that apply here? Or is it only for some updates?
I believe it applies for any version-number upgrade, so yes, if you upgrade from 19.04 to 19.10, your PPAs will be disabled.
If they are disabled, will that uninstall the packages that use the ppa?
No, the packages will stick around, unless there is now a newer version in the default Ubuntu repositories, in which case you will be upgraded to that version (unless you've made changes to your apt configuration to avoid this).
There might not be packages available for the new Ubuntu version The packages might be broken/untested You should be OK, but backups and caution are always a good idea :)
There might not be packages available for the new Ubuntu version
The packages might be broken/untested
You should be OK, but backups and caution are always a good idea :)
I'm hedging my bets with Apple right now. I've been using Ubuntu 19.04 as my daily driver for a while now just in case Apple continues to struggle with Catalina. I installed Catalina on one of my...
I'm hedging my bets with Apple right now. I've been using Ubuntu 19.04 as my daily driver for a while now just in case Apple continues to struggle with Catalina. I installed Catalina on one of my machines and had so many little headaches that I just closed the lid and walked away.
It probably depends a lot on the individual device, but there have been a lot of reports of different issues with Catalina. A couple of links I have handy: https://tyler.io/broken/...
It probably depends a lot on the individual device, but there have been a lot of reports of different issues with Catalina. A couple of links I have handy:
Notes not syncing, Time Machine not backing up, constantly being asked to log into iCloud, even after following steps I’ve seen to stop it. Those were the big three I remember of the top of my...
Notes not syncing, Time Machine not backing up, constantly being asked to log into iCloud, even after following steps I’ve seen to stop it. Those were the big three I remember of the top of my head. Honestly haven’t checked back in on it as I’ve been perfectly happy with Ubuntu for the time being.
I'm still hanging out on my ArchLabs install and haven't used anything Ubuntu based in about 6-7 years but congrats to the Ubuntu team. It looks amazing.
I'm still hanging out on my ArchLabs install and haven't used anything Ubuntu based in about 6-7 years but congrats to the Ubuntu team. It looks amazing.
My school really needs to require CS students to have more exposure to Linux.
I'm really glad all of our Uni's Computer Science buildings computer rooms run Ubuntu. I don't think you can even find a Windows computer in here.
I'd say 95% of the people I'm here with use Windows exclusively. I hope they're not in for a huge shock when they graduate.
Curious if you've looked at pop os? I've started using it lately and I find it's pretty much the same as Ubuntu but with a better ux.
I've got a System76 Oryx Pro, purchased a few months ago, running Pop!_OS.
I'm far from the typical user, in that I'm not very techy and this is my first full Linux machine, and I don't really need it to do much beyond get me online, store/open/edit my files, and play my games. I'm using it 95% of the time as a desktop replacement and 5% of the time as a laptop.
The only thing I can compare Pop!_OS to was Manjaro (XFCE), which I ran before getting this computer, though it's hardly a good comparison at all since that was running on hardware that was about a decade old. I was amazed at how Manjaro gave my hardware new life, but it was definitely rough around the edges, and I ran into lots of problems that required troubleshooting. Thus far, I haven't really run into any of those same issues with Pop!_OS, though again, it's hardly a fair comparison given that it's running on modern hardware that it is specifically designed for. I also haven't done a big upgrade yet (19.10 will be my first), so that will be more of a true test for how stable it is.
Going from Windows and XFCE to GNOME was a bit of a hop for me. It's apparently popular to hate on GNOME in some circles, so I wasn't sure how I'd feel about it given how much negative stuff I'd read, but now that I'm used to it I find it simple, elegant, and functional. I can definitely see how its limitations would bother power users, but as a simple user it's great.
Thus far I haven't experienced any concerns about build quality, though you can read mixed reviews online for System76, so take my experience entirely as an anecdote of one, based only on a short time with the machine. Heat dissipation is a huge issue, but that seems to be the case with any gaming laptop. The laptop lives on a fan base that I run whenever I game, which alleviates the issue. Without it, however, the top left of the machine gets very hot to the touch and would give anyone using it sweaty, possibly singed WASD fingers.
I think this feature is specific to Pop!_OS (not entirely sure), but I can easily swap between using the NVIDIA card in the computer and the Intel integrated graphics, so if I'm ever using it as a laptop (rarely), I can swap to the integrated card and get a ton more battery life, which is great. On the NVIDIA card I get maybe an hour and a half max (far less if I'm actually gaming), but I can get several hours while on the Intel integrated and battery saver mode.
You definitely pay a premium for System76, and I was able to justify the high cost with the idea that my experience with the machine should be frictionless -- kind of what a lot of people like Macs for. A lot of other people seem to scoff at this markup and because they can get similar hardware for much cheaper, but they're also the kind of people with the knowhow to get that hardware up and running smoothly. I'm not someone like that, so the higher cost was reasonable to me. The biggest thing I'm unhappy about is that a replacement power adapter costs ~$120 plus shipping, and they won't budge on that (I tried!).
If you have any questions, let me know!
Great to hear! I hope it works out for you.
That is exactly how I feel about mine. Its high cost is easy to justify when based on the assumption that I will get thousands of hours of use out of it, but if it isn't able to meet that demand or its hours get cut short, I'm going to be quite the unhappy camper.
The cost of computers in general is overblown, depending on use case. If you're a developer, the amortized difference in cost of this device you not only stake your livelihood in (ok probably have company computers for work provided but still) but spend multiple hours every day on comes out to be tiny.
I really don't care that much about the nitty gritty price when looking for a new laptop.
So this seems like a good a place as any for me to vent about Pop!_OS. I've been using linux for 20+ years now, mostly debian unstable. I've grown accustomed to dealing with stupid linux problems, and I've always attributed that to me pushing the boundaries and dealing with the problems of using bleeding edge software. These days I feel like I'm getting older and I'm not up for extra troubleshooting of stuff, but I'm not willing to run debian stable and miss out on new features for months or years. I figured since ubuntu is like a polished debian, and pop_os is an even more polished ubuntu, everything should just work and I'll never have "linux problems" again.
Well, to some degree that was true. A lot of stuff worked out of the box and everything was a more cohesive, polished experience than I've found on other distros. But, I can't help but feel like it's all a facade and we're still not at the mythical "year of the linux desktop". Lots of stuff I expected to work just didn't. Want to switch keyboard layouts? Typing "keyboard" into the launcher search brings up some arcane keyboard layout editor written in tk in 1998.
The biggest thing Pop_OS promised is support for optimus laptops. Switching to nvidia graphics isn't some realtime switch though, it's an option you select that takes like 15-20 seconds to switch, then requires a reboot. What's crazy though is it sometimes fails. Like, surely it's just moving around some conf files, or hell, even changing a few symlinks, yet somehow this process takes 15 seconds on a NVMe SSD, and sometimes it doesn't work? Then it requires a reboot! I've configured bumblebee / primus / optirun before in such a way I can enable my GPU for only specific games, without rebooting, yet this requires the GPU to be either fully on all the time or fully off. I still have no idea how moving conf files around can take 20 seconds and then fail. It makes no sense.
Anyway, updating to 19.10 yesterday hosed my system, and reminded me I still can't install linux for old people without having to deal with "linux problems" even in 2019. For whatever reason updating seemed to remove gdm3, gnome-shell, nautilus, etc, booting me into a command-line. Trying to apt install pop-session reveals a bunch of dependency problems with nautilus.
Googling these problems didn't bring up much, and I can't find anyone else suffering the same problems I did, so I'm not sure if this maybe caused by my configuration or something, but in any case it shattered my illusions about "just works" distros.
edit: TL;DR: Pop!_OS seems like a good guy, but the emperor wears no clothes here. You rip off the mask scooby doo style and it turns out it was debian sid all along.
Optimus can't be helped, man.
Fortunately, things seems to be moving slowly in the right direction. Nvidia is slowly start supporting it.
I made it work with Fedora using the beta drivers and a patched Xorg. The code will be merged in the new Xorg, but who knows when this release will come. Someone on Fedora made a copr (custom repository) with the patches applied to the actual version and i know have Optimus working without any hacks.
Sure the nvidia card never goes entirely off, this only works for turing cards for now. But it consumes less power and i can choose inside applications if i want to use nvidia or intel. Final fantasy XII gives me the option, Dolphin (gamecube emulator) too.
And you can launch any program using nvidia if you append __NV_PRIME_RENDER_OFFLOAD=1 before the command.
I was trying to come up with a smarmy answer about how great GalliumOS is in this regard, but then I realized that it, too, is based on Ubuntu. So yeah, you've got me there.
That being said, I have been using Ubuntu based distros for the longest time specifically because I value how much work has been made to make sure it works out of the box. Long gone is the time I would have appreciated the challenge of fixing broken software configurations.
In hopes of saving someone a few searches that I had to make myself:
"Eoan" means "of or relating to the dawn or the east" and is probably pronounced either "ee--OH-UN" or "ee-UH-OOH-un".1
"Ermine" refers to a type of short-tailed weasel also called a "stoat," and is known for its pure white winter coat.2
1: These are bad transliterations of the word, based on my shaky knowledge of phonetic symbols, sourced from two different (and disagreeing) sources on how to say it, so I'm very probably wrong. If anyone else has a better handle on this, please set the record straight!
2: This is based off of about 10 seconds of looking at a Wikipedia page, so there's a good chance I missed the mark here as well.
I have a kinda related tech support query.I have heard when upgrading, some of your ppas become disabled. Would that apply here? Or is it only for some updates?
My web searching taught me how to reenable them, so it shouldn't be a huge issue.
If they are disabled, will that uninstall the packages that use the ppa?
I believe it applies for any version-number upgrade, so yes, if you upgrade from 19.04 to 19.10, your PPAs will be disabled.
No, the packages will stick around, unless there is now a newer version in the default Ubuntu repositories, in which case you will be upgraded to that version (unless you've made changes to your apt configuration to avoid this).
Ok. Thanks for the reply. I assume there are no issues with just re-enabling the ppas.
You should be OK, but backups and caution are always a good idea :)
I'm hedging my bets with Apple right now. I've been using Ubuntu 19.04 as my daily driver for a while now just in case Apple continues to struggle with Catalina. I installed Catalina on one of my machines and had so many little headaches that I just closed the lid and walked away.
It probably depends a lot on the individual device, but there have been a lot of reports of different issues with Catalina. A couple of links I have handy:
Notes not syncing, Time Machine not backing up, constantly being asked to log into iCloud, even after following steps I’ve seen to stop it. Those were the big three I remember of the top of my head. Honestly haven’t checked back in on it as I’ve been perfectly happy with Ubuntu for the time being.
I'm still hanging out on my ArchLabs install and haven't used anything Ubuntu based in about 6-7 years but congrats to the Ubuntu team. It looks amazing.
For a MX Linux user Ubuntu feels like a bug fest.