17 votes

Do we need to see the vote count?

What is the reason for displaying vote count? Could we bring even more focus to the content of a post/comment by not displaying the vote count? What would we lose if vote count is removed?

Edit: It is more transparent if the vote count is displayed. Either way I believe it requires some trust from the user that the site mechanics as vote count and sorting system is working as claimed.

Edit2: Here's an argument for why we need to see the count.

22 comments

  1. [11]
    Zeerph
    Link
    It might be interesting to have the vote counter be randomised with a set of words. Maybe only the poster can see the true vote number, but to everyone else it's obfuscated with something like the...

    It might be interesting to have the vote counter be randomised with a set of words.

    Maybe only the poster can see the true vote number, but to everyone else it's obfuscated with something like the following.

    Some votes
    A few votes
    Several votes
    A couple of votes
    Quite a lot of votes
    
    13 votes
    1. [3]
      Deimos
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I don't think I get it. What would the benefit of this be? It seems like it would have all the same downsides of a visible vote count, but just be less detailed (and harder to read).

      I don't think I get it. What would the benefit of this be? It seems like it would have all the same downsides of a visible vote count, but just be less detailed (and harder to read).

      9 votes
      1. cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I think the biggest benefit would be the psychological factor. Seeing that your comment has no votes whatsoever can be incredibly disheartening to some people whereas if the value was abstracted a...

        I think the biggest benefit would be the psychological factor. Seeing that your comment has no votes whatsoever can be incredibly disheartening to some people whereas if the value was abstracted a bit there wouldn't be such "definitive proof" that nobody voted on your comment. On the opposite end of the spectrum though... by abstracting it and users not being able to tell when anyone (even a small number) voted on their comments as a result, it could probably be equally disheartening.

        However I must say that I am against obfuscating/abstracting vote counts for all the same reasons I think vote fuzzing on reddit is counterproductive. Either show it or don't but opaqueness just leads to confusion and conspiracies spreading.

        p.s. Accurately showing the numbers but reducing their prominence in the display (as you did with the comment vote count) is a perfectly good compromise though, IMO.

        4 votes
      2. Zeerph
        Link Parent
        The only thing I can come up with is that it would add "character" to the site to differentiate it from others. Though, It might just be a change for changes sake, I do think some kind of...

        The only thing I can come up with is that it would add "character" to the site to differentiate it from others. Though, It might just be a change for changes sake, I do think some kind of obfuscation might be nice, does everyone really need to see the vote count?
        What does the vote count tell us that is useful, other than some people clicked on it?

    2. [5]
      balooga
      Link Parent
      I'm torn on this idea. I like the concept, but I think your example categories are too vague and arbitrary. Maybe these would be more useful: 100+ votes 50-99 votes 15-49 votes 0-14 votes Negative...

      I'm torn on this idea. I like the concept, but I think your example categories are too vague and arbitrary. Maybe these would be more useful:

      100+ votes
      50-99 votes
      15-49 votes
      0-14 votes
      Negative votes
      

      Using absolute numbers isn't really scalable though; a post's popularity is a function of its vote count over its number of views, weighted to account for time I think. Imagine a future where Tildes receives a lot of traffic. A post in a group with a high number of subscribers might receive thousands of votes, but still fall short of other posts made around the same time period. Meanwhile a post in a niche group might only get 5 votes but in that context should be considered very popular. With that in mind, the labels should maybe be more situationally relative:

      Trending
      Hot
      Very Popular
      Somewhat Popular
      Offbeat
      Unpopular (or Controversial?)
      

      Regardless, I do think it's important that the poster be able to see the actual count.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        sid
        Link Parent
        I'm nitpicking, but we wouldn't have negative votes since there are no downvotes.

        I'm nitpicking, but we wouldn't have negative votes since there are no downvotes.

        2 votes
        1. balooga
          Link Parent
          Good nitpick! I must've blanked when I wrote that, I'm still getting used to how things work around here. :-)

          Good nitpick! I must've blanked when I wrote that, I'm still getting used to how things work around here. :-)

      2. Dagur
        Link Parent
        Really like this idea. I don't want to focus on the votes but I still find myself looking at everyone's votes as if we're still on reddit.

        Really like this idea. I don't want to focus on the votes but I still find myself looking at everyone's votes as if we're still on reddit.

        1 vote
      3. Zeerph
        Link Parent
        In do prefer the situationally aware obfuscation, that might even be more useful as a metric than a raw number, at least to me.

        In do prefer the situationally aware obfuscation, that might even be more useful as a metric than a raw number, at least to me.

        1 vote
    3. Ark
      Link Parent
      I like this idea, blurs the line a bit. I think the votes of a post need to be seen in some form as the higher the votes, the more interesting and well thought the discussion topic. Users will see...

      I like this idea, blurs the line a bit. I think the votes of a post need to be seen in some form as the higher the votes, the more interesting and well thought the discussion topic. Users will see what are good posts and what are not which will in turn persuade them (hopefully) to create better posts overall. I don’t mind seeing either the raw votes or as @Zeerph suggested some sort of blurred voting system which still allows users to see the general popularity of the post.

      2 votes
    4. acr
      Link Parent
      I like this idea lot.

      I like this idea lot.

  2. [4]
    crius
    (edited )
    Link
    I'm afraid the vote count is a sort of watchdog that assure the user that the "most voted" is actually the most voted and some content is not being pushed ahead for other reasons. Yes, there is...

    I'm afraid the vote count is a sort of watchdog that assure the user that the "most voted" is actually the most voted and some content is not being pushed ahead for other reasons.

    Yes, there is always the matter of bots and vote manipulation but hiding the vote count altogether is even worse.

    12 votes
    1. Social
      Link Parent
      So that the users can verify that the post should be high up on the subforum/on Tildes? That's a good point.

      So that the users can verify that the post should be high up on the subforum/on Tildes? That's a good point.

      3 votes
    2. [2]
      pseudolobster
      Link Parent
      Imho the vote count really helps with this. If you watch reddit's /rising or /top?t=hour you can identify suspicious posts pretty easily. If a post that wouldn't normally attract a lot of votes,...

      Yes, there is always the matter of bots and vote manipulation

      Imho the vote count really helps with this. If you watch reddit's /rising or /top?t=hour you can identify suspicious posts pretty easily. If a post that wouldn't normally attract a lot of votes, say a post that appears to be self-promoting a youtube unboxing or letsplay channel or a link to a cat picture on a weird and random blog covered in ads, is rising faster than other threads, that prompts me to have a look at the poster's history, see if there's a pattern, check the commenters that are making comments in support, see if they tend to comment on this guy's posts often or exclusively, etc.

      Patterns of vote manipulation can be seen by the careful observer, but it requires seeing the vote count to do this.

      3 votes
  3. [3]
    Catt
    Link
    I believe we need the vote count for transparency, but it might be interesting to give users an option to hide it if they choose.

    I believe we need the vote count for transparency, but it might be interesting to give users an option to hide it if they choose.

    8 votes
    1. funsl1ng3r
      Link Parent
      I like this idea, have it as an account setting. If it's not set like this already, would it be good to hide vote counts for non-account visitors / bots?

      I like this idea, have it as an account setting. If it's not set like this already, would it be good to hide vote counts for non-account visitors / bots?

      1 vote
    2. Social
      Link Parent
      This would be neat.

      This would be neat.

      1 vote
  4. [4]
    tomf
    Link
    Try it out for a bit... topic-voting-votes { display: none; } .topic-voting.btn, .topic-full .topic-voting { height: 40px; }

    Try it out for a bit...

    topic-voting-votes {
        display: none;
    }
    .topic-voting.btn, .topic-full .topic-voting {
        height: 40px;
    }
    
    1 vote
    1. [3]
      Social
      Link Parent
      How do I apply this? Is there a CSS on my side I can modify?

      How do I apply this? Is there a CSS on my side I can modify?

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        tomf
        Link Parent
        Get something like Stylus for whichever browser you use. @Bauke made a really nice Dracula theme and also a compact theme. You can tweak them as you see fit. I've added a bunch of stuff, mainly to...

        Get something like Stylus for whichever browser you use.

        @Bauke made a really nice Dracula theme and also a compact theme. You can tweak them as you see fit.

        I've added a bunch of stuff, mainly to make the header static, change the color of the vote buttons, highlight my own comments, etc.