Electric vehicles aren't environmentally sustainable: automobiles remain generally inefficient and wasteful forms of transportation, especially considering their vehicle-miles traveled per...
Electric vehicles aren't environmentally sustainable: automobiles remain generally inefficient and wasteful forms of transportation, especially considering their vehicle-miles traveled per passenger (half of car trips are done solo). Personal vehicles necessarily require expensive, short-lived infrastructure with a heavy carbon footprint and inefficient large-scale land uses; and contribute negatively to the environment via tire microplastics that leech into groundwater and soil. Their heavy weight exacerbates the impact they have on roadway quality and introduces safety concerns when sharing public space with pedestrians, cyclists, and other vehicles.
But they're a heck of a lot better than cars with internal combustion engines. Baby steps. Automobiles are necessary to the transportation network in general, even though they shouldn't be the dominant mode for most trips. If we're gonna have them, they oughta be the good ones. EVs not burning fossil fuels is obviously important – that whole "global warming" thing is very real. The minor noise reduction offered by EVs' quieter engines is also nice. Ultimately, it's good to hear that automakers are making a unified effort to expand charging station access across the United States. Here is some info about their plan, which they want to finish by summer 2024:
Global automakers BMW, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz and Stellantis N.V. announced the joint venture Wednesday, saying it is projected to have at least 30,000 high-powered charging plugs in urban areas and along highways.
For context:
The U.S. Department of Energy estimates about 36,000 charging plugs are currently available in the U.S. and Canada across some 9,000 direct-current fast-charging stations.
As it stands, Tesla’s network has the largest number of fast chargers in North America, with 2,050 stations and more than 22,000 plugs, according to the federal government.
And:
The group of major automakers said it intends to solely use renewable energy at the new stations, which will be available for all battery-powered electric vehicles.
Drivers will have access to both Tesla’s North American Charging Standard (NACS) plugs and Combined Charging System (CCS) plugs used by other automakers.
Glad to see an actual standard (CCS) taking hold. Honestly, anything that reduces Tesla's dominance on the EV market is a plus.
IIRC Tesla handed over their charger design to a third party so it’s no longer their interface, it is an actual standard now that others can use. Granted Tesla had a first mover advantage on...
IIRC Tesla handed over their charger design to a third party so it’s no longer their interface, it is an actual standard now that others can use.
Granted Tesla had a first mover advantage on having the charger network that uses that standard, and they also better design their cars to work with it and advantage their own vehicles at the supercharger stations in other ways, so it’s not entirely altruistic. But at this point they’re both actual standards and the NACS one is actually better along basically every metric that matters.
Out of curiosity: do you feel that the issue is related to a lack of high-speed chargers or a lack of charging stations in general? Would the capacity upgrades mentioned in this article change...
Out of curiosity: do you feel that the issue is related to a lack of high-speed chargers or a lack of charging stations in general? Would the capacity upgrades mentioned in this article change your mind, if they're implemented by summer 2024 as planned?
Where I am (NC), we have very little charging infra at all. If I'm staying around town, slow chargers are fine. If I'm taking a road trip, fast charging would be more necessary so I don't have to...
Where I am (NC), we have very little charging infra at all. If I'm staying around town, slow chargers are fine. If I'm taking a road trip, fast charging would be more necessary so I don't have to wait around forever to get charged.
But we have a cabin out in the mountains in the western part of the state, and there are virtually no chargers out that way. My friend went out there with his Rivian and was frustrated at having to plan his whole trip around traveling into the city to charge.
We have a handful of chargers at work, but there's drama around using them because there are more people who want to use them than there are chargers. Unless you come in super early, you won't get one. I don't want that headache.
I don't see my area having enough chargers to solve this problem in 1 year. We're slow to adopt anything that everyone else is doing.
Looking at the map of superchargers, it looks like there are 60+ scattered across the state so it should be super easy to travel with an EV in NC, especially once more Superchargers are opened up...
Looking at the map of superchargers, it looks like there are 60+ scattered across the state so it should be super easy to travel with an EV in NC, especially once more Superchargers are opened up to non-Teslas.
It would be a shame if those few trips where you apparently wouldn't be that far from a charger cause you to lock yourself into an ICE car for several years.
I live in the Raleigh area, so there are chargers near me which is why I'd be fine locally. But if you head east to the beach, or west to the mountains, it's slim pickins. Our cabin is 45m to the...
I live in the Raleigh area, so there are chargers near me which is why I'd be fine locally. But if you head east to the beach, or west to the mountains, it's slim pickins. Our cabin is 45m to the closest supercharger (Old Fort), which is past the exit where we'd get off. The previous one is Hickory which is an hour away. My buddy actually said that the Old Fort charger is not 24x7 despite the website saying it is, but I haven't looked for myself. He had to drive into Asheville an hour away to charge.
Charger availability is one reason, but not the only reason that my next vehicle won't be electric. Battery life and replacement pricing need to get better. The idea of a $20k battery replacement in 10-15 years doesn't sit well with me.
The ROI doesn't make sense from a financial perspective (the premium price on an EV compared to a similar ICE version, and I make too much to qualify for the tax credit). Last time I crunched the numbers, it would take 120k miles of driving to break even (gas savings compared to the extra you pay for the EV), and that was assuming I would be able to charge for free.
Also, I do drive and need a truck (for hauling construction materials, motorcycle or wife's horse trailer) and EV truck options aren't very good yet, especially for the cost. I have no desire to drop $100k on a luxury pickup, I just need to haul shit around.
At the end of the day, I want a vehicle that fits my needs and does what I need it to do. EVs aren't there yet for me. They'll get there eventually, but it's been slow going and I don't see all of my problems being solved by the time I'm ready for my next vehicle in 3-5 years.
I accept that an EV isn't what you want, but I don't understand the problem with a supercharger only being 45 minutes away. Are you driving around a ton when you are at your cabin? Wouldn't you be...
I accept that an EV isn't what you want, but I don't understand the problem with a supercharger only being 45 minutes away. Are you driving around a ton when you are at your cabin? Wouldn't you be able to charge off of the outlets already at your cabin (whether 110V or 220V)? It looks like a round trip to the nearest supercharger on your trips would use significantly less than half your battery even if you were as far from the superchargers as possible. Plus, there is one in Boone and one opening soon in Gastonia so it seems you wouldn't be too far away even in an emergency (if you're far from I-40). Plus, the Asheville superchargers are less than a half hour from Old Fort.
Not trying to make you change your mind about an EV and I definitely don't think a Tesla is the best option for most people; I'd just noticed that NC seemed to have pretty decent supercharger coverage when I looked before.
To be clear, I like the idea of EV. I will most certainly get one at some point. But the idea of driving 90 minutes round trip just to charge is a huge turn-off. I could charge off 110 (I actually...
To be clear, I like the idea of EV. I will most certainly get one at some point. But the idea of driving 90 minutes round trip just to charge is a huge turn-off. I could charge off 110 (I actually don't know if our current electric service will accomodate 220, I can't remember if we have 100A or 200A service) but at only 2-3 MPH in range, that's also quite limiting. A trip from the cabin into town is about 30 minutes south (in the opposite direction of the nearest chargers). So I'd have to factor that round trip plus the return trip to a 45-minute-away charger.
If I only stayed in my home city, it wouldn't be an issue. But out in the rural sticks of the state where I head 2-3 times/month, it's not worth the headache to me, especially at an overall higher expense. But that being said, it will only get better from here. It's just going to continue to take time.
This is needed but I have serious doubts that this will improve the current charging situation in NA. The skeptic in me assumes this announcement is to primarily take advantage of federal funding....
This is needed but I have serious doubts that this will improve the current charging situation in NA. The skeptic in me assumes this announcement is to primarily take advantage of federal funding.
The group of major automakers said it intends to solely use renewable energy at the new stations, which will be available for all battery-powered electric vehicles.
This is what you want in theory, but the biggest issue with non-Tesla charges is their horrible reliability and limited up time.
Hopefully they want to make a network similar to Tesla's and not just milk federal funds.
Electric vehicles aren't environmentally sustainable: automobiles remain generally inefficient and wasteful forms of transportation, especially considering their vehicle-miles traveled per passenger (half of car trips are done solo). Personal vehicles necessarily require expensive, short-lived infrastructure with a heavy carbon footprint and inefficient large-scale land uses; and contribute negatively to the environment via tire microplastics that leech into groundwater and soil. Their heavy weight exacerbates the impact they have on roadway quality and introduces safety concerns when sharing public space with pedestrians, cyclists, and other vehicles.
But they're a heck of a lot better than cars with internal combustion engines. Baby steps. Automobiles are necessary to the transportation network in general, even though they shouldn't be the dominant mode for most trips. If we're gonna have them, they oughta be the good ones. EVs not burning fossil fuels is obviously important – that whole "global warming" thing is very real. The minor noise reduction offered by EVs' quieter engines is also nice. Ultimately, it's good to hear that automakers are making a unified effort to expand charging station access across the United States. Here is some info about their plan, which they want to finish by summer 2024:
For context:
And:
Glad to see an actual standard (CCS) taking hold. Honestly, anything that reduces Tesla's dominance on the EV market is a plus.
IIRC Tesla handed over their charger design to a third party so it’s no longer their interface, it is an actual standard now that others can use.
Granted Tesla had a first mover advantage on having the charger network that uses that standard, and they also better design their cars to work with it and advantage their own vehicles at the supercharger stations in other ways, so it’s not entirely altruistic. But at this point they’re both actual standards and the NACS one is actually better along basically every metric that matters.
If we could just replace the comment section of basically every article about electric cars with this, that would be great, kthnx
Good! Competition is ultimately a good thing. Lack of chargers is one of the biggest reasons my next vehicle purchase is unlikely to be electric.
Out of curiosity: do you feel that the issue is related to a lack of high-speed chargers or a lack of charging stations in general? Would the capacity upgrades mentioned in this article change your mind, if they're implemented by summer 2024 as planned?
Where I am (NC), we have very little charging infra at all. If I'm staying around town, slow chargers are fine. If I'm taking a road trip, fast charging would be more necessary so I don't have to wait around forever to get charged.
But we have a cabin out in the mountains in the western part of the state, and there are virtually no chargers out that way. My friend went out there with his Rivian and was frustrated at having to plan his whole trip around traveling into the city to charge.
We have a handful of chargers at work, but there's drama around using them because there are more people who want to use them than there are chargers. Unless you come in super early, you won't get one. I don't want that headache.
I don't see my area having enough chargers to solve this problem in 1 year. We're slow to adopt anything that everyone else is doing.
Looking at the map of superchargers, it looks like there are 60+ scattered across the state so it should be super easy to travel with an EV in NC, especially once more Superchargers are opened up to non-Teslas.
It would be a shame if those few trips where you apparently wouldn't be that far from a charger cause you to lock yourself into an ICE car for several years.
I live in the Raleigh area, so there are chargers near me which is why I'd be fine locally. But if you head east to the beach, or west to the mountains, it's slim pickins. Our cabin is 45m to the closest supercharger (Old Fort), which is past the exit where we'd get off. The previous one is Hickory which is an hour away. My buddy actually said that the Old Fort charger is not 24x7 despite the website saying it is, but I haven't looked for myself. He had to drive into Asheville an hour away to charge.
Charger availability is one reason, but not the only reason that my next vehicle won't be electric. Battery life and replacement pricing need to get better. The idea of a $20k battery replacement in 10-15 years doesn't sit well with me.
The ROI doesn't make sense from a financial perspective (the premium price on an EV compared to a similar ICE version, and I make too much to qualify for the tax credit). Last time I crunched the numbers, it would take 120k miles of driving to break even (gas savings compared to the extra you pay for the EV), and that was assuming I would be able to charge for free.
Also, I do drive and need a truck (for hauling construction materials, motorcycle or wife's horse trailer) and EV truck options aren't very good yet, especially for the cost. I have no desire to drop $100k on a luxury pickup, I just need to haul shit around.
At the end of the day, I want a vehicle that fits my needs and does what I need it to do. EVs aren't there yet for me. They'll get there eventually, but it's been slow going and I don't see all of my problems being solved by the time I'm ready for my next vehicle in 3-5 years.
I accept that an EV isn't what you want, but I don't understand the problem with a supercharger only being 45 minutes away. Are you driving around a ton when you are at your cabin? Wouldn't you be able to charge off of the outlets already at your cabin (whether 110V or 220V)? It looks like a round trip to the nearest supercharger on your trips would use significantly less than half your battery even if you were as far from the superchargers as possible. Plus, there is one in Boone and one opening soon in Gastonia so it seems you wouldn't be too far away even in an emergency (if you're far from I-40). Plus, the Asheville superchargers are less than a half hour from Old Fort.
Not trying to make you change your mind about an EV and I definitely don't think a Tesla is the best option for most people; I'd just noticed that NC seemed to have pretty decent supercharger coverage when I looked before.
To be clear, I like the idea of EV. I will most certainly get one at some point. But the idea of driving 90 minutes round trip just to charge is a huge turn-off. I could charge off 110 (I actually don't know if our current electric service will accomodate 220, I can't remember if we have 100A or 200A service) but at only 2-3 MPH in range, that's also quite limiting. A trip from the cabin into town is about 30 minutes south (in the opposite direction of the nearest chargers). So I'd have to factor that round trip plus the return trip to a 45-minute-away charger.
If I only stayed in my home city, it wouldn't be an issue. But out in the rural sticks of the state where I head 2-3 times/month, it's not worth the headache to me, especially at an overall higher expense. But that being said, it will only get better from here. It's just going to continue to take time.
This is needed but I have serious doubts that this will improve the current charging situation in NA. The skeptic in me assumes this announcement is to primarily take advantage of federal funding.
This is what you want in theory, but the biggest issue with non-Tesla charges is their horrible reliability and limited up time.
Hopefully they want to make a network similar to Tesla's and not just milk federal funds.