9 votes

UK requesting comments for updating ebike power laws

7 comments

  1. [5]
    infpossibilityspace
    (edited )
    Link
    My executive summary: In my opinion this is a good idea - one could climb steeper hills for longer (Bristol, Bradford), or load up a cargo bike with more stuff, and generally increases the...

    My executive summary:

    Current law is that motors are limited to a maximum rated wattage of 250W, motor assist must cut off at 15.5mph/25kph, and throttles are limited to 4mph/6kph/walking pace.

    Proposed law increases the maximum rated wattage to 500W, and allows throttles to be used up to the existing and unchanging 15.5mph assist limit.

    In my opinion this is a good idea - one could climb steeper hills for longer (Bristol, Bradford), or load up a cargo bike with more stuff, and generally increases the viability of ebikes (technically pedelecs or EAPCs) as a car/bus alternative.

    I've seen some discussion on other forums that this will decrease pedestrian safety, which I disagree with. Having more power doesn't fundamentally affect how people behave - bad cyclists will always be bad and we have existing laws to combat that. People should take responsibility for their actions rather than blaming the tools, but I'm curious if I've overlooked something.

    Do you agree with the proposal? Will this decrease road safety too much?

    Note: This is not a discussion about the merits/drawbacks of "rated wattage" as a means of deciding legislation. Nor battery safety or DIY legality. There is no scope in the proposal to change these.

    11 votes
    1. Akir
      Link Parent
      I honestly think wattage limitations are kind of dumb, or at least overly paternal in nature. They make the power assist much less useful not only for people who live in hilly areas, but it also...

      I honestly think wattage limitations are kind of dumb, or at least overly paternal in nature. They make the power assist much less useful not only for people who live in hilly areas, but it also means it sucks for if you have to carry more than a single person's worth of weight or if you are obese or have certain medical issues. Raising it to 500W is quite literally the least that could be done, but ideally it should be lifted entirely.

      8 votes
    2. [3]
      semitones
      Link Parent
      Is 250 W effective at all on steep hills? Increasing it seems like an accessibility issue to allow people to use ebikes who otherwise couldn't make it up the hill

      Is 250 W effective at all on steep hills? Increasing it seems like an accessibility issue to allow people to use ebikes who otherwise couldn't make it up the hill

      4 votes
      1. infpossibilityspace
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        It's certainly better than nothing, most adults would struggle to produce 250W with their legs, but there are some hilly areas where even 250W isn't enough to be useful. This is a surprisingly...

        It's certainly better than nothing, most adults would struggle to produce 250W with their legs, but there are some hilly areas where even 250W isn't enough to be useful.

        This is a surprisingly difficult question to answer and gets to the heart of why I didn't want to talk about the "rated wattage" of a motor. Most common ebike motors today (bosch, yamaha etc.) will output more than 250W and still be considered legal. Rated power is a fundamentally flawed concept. I'd recommend reading this article to understand why:

        https://ebikes.ca/learn/power-ratings.html

        6 votes
      2. Baeocystin
        Link Parent
        I live in a moderately hilly area, and 500W isn't quiiiiite enough for some of the moderate and steeper hills, especially if I'm carrying cargo. 250W is barely enough (IMO) to offset the extra...

        I live in a moderately hilly area, and 500W isn't quiiiiite enough for some of the moderate and steeper hills, especially if I'm carrying cargo. 250W is barely enough (IMO) to offset the extra weight of an ebike and battery in the first place. My current bike (2015 RadRover) is a nominally 500W fat-tired bike that can peak at 750W for a quick climb, and I find it just right in terms of power/weight.

        The only way 250W would be adequate is if it powered the front sprocket, before being reduced by the drivetrain, so that you could take advantage of gearing. Of course, you also put a lot more wear on the entire powertrain doing so. Much better is to simply pump a few more watts into a simple hub motor.

        4 votes
  2. [2]
    ignorabimus
    Link
    I really think the police should be encouraged to investigate e-bikes which have been illegally modified to go faster than the speed limit. It shouldn't be particularly hard – use a radar speed...

    I really think the police should be encouraged to investigate e-bikes which have been illegally modified to go faster than the speed limit. It shouldn't be particularly hard – use a radar speed detector to measure their speed and stop and question them if they are going faster than the legal limit.

    Note: I am very supportive of cycling and I think e-bikes are great but I also don't think we want to turn them into glorified motorcycles because they will then become a threat to analogue cyclists (as delivery drivers are already kind of becoming).

    2 votes
    1. infpossibilityspace
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      The proposal doesn't change the current speed limit. Plus you have the complication that exceeding 15.5mph is only a violation if you are being assisted above that speed. It's perfectly legal to...

      The proposal doesn't change the current speed limit.

      Plus you have the complication that exceeding 15.5mph is only a violation if you are being assisted above that speed. It's perfectly legal to go faster with just your legs.

      5 votes