28 votes

Long untouchable, fire departments are causing death and homelessness in American cities by advocating for bad policies

12 comments

  1. [6]
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    Comment box Scope: summary, synthesis, personal experiences Tone: neutral, supportive of the author's thesis, but trying to be measured/reasonable Opinion: yes Sarcasm/humor: none I do some...
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    I do some advocacy work in my city and surrounding areas related to safe streets and the reduction of pedestrian/cyclist traffic fatalities. One problem that organizations I volunteer for run into is opposition to useful street improvements from fire departments. It's important to find safety solutions to pedestrian issues that don't impede emergency services, but a lot of the resistance we experience is based on misconceptions and factually incorrect statements.

    NIMBY-types who oppose literally any instance of traffic calming or other safety improvement (things like bicycle lane protections, reductions in lane width, installation of sidewalk bollards, raised crosswalks/intersections, speed humps, etc) sometimes speak on behalf of fire departments to reinforce the status quo. Usually, these remarks are based on false premises. And usually, in my experience, these remarks are not made completely in good faith: these people are at least partially trying to find a socially acceptable excuse to oppose the improvements. Unfortunately, even elected officials will sometimes make this kind of uninformed statement.

    The critical thing to remember is that emergency vehicles like fire trucks are still vehicles, and they actually kill a significant number of people while speeding every year. (Such fatalities are well-documented.) It's important to balance access to life-saving vehicles with... the ability of those vehicles to kill/seriously injure people. Currently, our society erroneously "balances" this by ignoring the statistically bigger issue -- traffic fatalities -- and effectively giving fire departments an unscientific blank cheque when it comes to street upgrades. And this is very hard for politicians and activists to oppose: the general public has an extremely visceral reaction to the idea of acute emergencies like a fire, while they have absolutely no reaction to blunt emergencies, like a series of pedestrian fatalities over a period of time. There is an idea that firefighters are heroes -- and they are -- but they're not heroes when they run someone over -- which firefighters also do when they wrongly insist that streets need to be wider and less safe than they really do.

    Culturally, we are very used to traffic fatalities, which feel localized and insignificant, but a fire feels scary and uncontrollable. Part of this is a false perception of agency: people believe that they have a lot more control over being hit by a car than they do over their house burning down. In every traffic fatality, there is an element of blame placed on the victim (typically wrongly, but blame is still placed), and also individual blame placed on the perpetrator (typically rightly). The issue is that people take this to mean (consciously or subconsciously) that it's kind of your fault if you die in a car crash, or at least we shouldn't care so much, and obviously they wouldn't have been in that situation because they're not stupid. In contrast, a fire is perceived as a force of nature. It's pretty socially acceptable to blame a pedestrian for crossing the street outside of a crosswalk and getting hit by an oversized pickup truck, but it's not socially acceptable to blame someone for burning their house down because they accidentally left the gas on. Even though those things are, in many cases, just as much the fault of some system (engineers designing terrible car-centric street layouts; landlords not fixing old sprinklers), agency and therefore blame are placed on victims of traffic collisions but not fires. This encourages people to take the issue of fires inherently and universally more seriously than issues like traffic collisions, which is not a scientific conclusion based on how many people actually die in either case and why they die. By extension, this encourages people to take the subjective opinions of firefighters more seriously than the hard data provided by Vision Zero activists.

    The bigger issue is that people falsely believe that Complete Streets, Vision Zero, etc-style safety improvements like adding bus/bike lanes, adding congestion pricing in city centers, and so on are incompatible with efficient emergency responses. I see how one could think that, but it is actually not true. They are not incompatible. Safer and less car-dependent streets improve safety in other ways. The more we get cars off the road (including by slowing them down and by comparison making public transit/cycling more appealing alternatives), the more flexibility emergency services have to get around quickly AND safely.

    This article talks about a few examples of things that fire departments say in opposition to street improvements that actually end up getting more people killed than they save. It isn't just specific opposition to specific projects ("the vehicle has X turning radius and we need a bit more space at this intersection") -- that kind of thing can make sense. Unfortunately, fire departments are often political units which categorically oppose all Complete Streets legislation such as adding dedicated bike and bus lanes. This example has the negative effect of increasing traffic (more cars = more traffic, 100% of the time, by definition) and therefore slowing down emergency response times. Having more people in cars also just tends to be more unsafe for Vulnerable Road Users like pedestrians. But really, their political opposition to urbanism is not rooted in real life-saving policy. The pejorative term that urbanist activists would use is that many firefighters are "car-brained." Their perspective is not necessarily based in actual firefighting science, but rather in the status quo; and firefighting agencies are politically savvy mechanisms through which these people can influence policy that probably personally benefits them (e.g. being able to drive more -- firefighters are not the kinds of people who ride bikes places. They drive. I don't have a scientific study for that one, but anecdotally I have never found that statement to be false.), or that for whatever reason they are politically inclined to support. I won't speculate any more, but the point is that these positions are not scientific.

    For all the good they do, fire departments have increasingly emerged as a primary force preventing cities from embracing walkability, safer streets, transit, and affordable housing. To list a few examples from the past month:

    • The LA firefighters’ union, UFLAC, was among the most vocal opponents of Measure HLA, a ballot referendum aiming to reduce LA’s car dependence by investing in bike and bus lanes. (The measure passed anyway, 65 to 35).

    • New York firefighters have loudly opposed New York’s congestion pricing plan, which plans to generate additional funding for transit by charging a $15 fee to vehicles entering lower Manhattan.

    • Fire departments pressured Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs to veto the bipartisan Starter Homes Act, which would’ve legalized smaller, more affordable homes on smaller lots.

    • Fire departments continue leading opposition to bringing the US’s building code in line with that of European and Asian peer countries, despite those countries’ lower fire death rates.

    The author talks about a few specific policies that fire departments tend to oppose, erroneously:

    Narrower lanes—particularly on urban streets—have been repeatedly shown to lead to reduced speeds and safer roads. On wider streets, drivers feel comfortable going much faster regardless of the posted speed limit. Narrower lanes keep drivers alert and discourage distracted driving, saving the lives of car occupants and pedestrians alike.

    Nevertheless, fire departments are consistently the most vocal opponents of any proposed road diets, including sidewalks, bus lanes, and bike lanes. This is despite the fact that fire departments spend more time responding to car crashes than fires, and car crashes get exponentially deadlier as speed increases.

    And it really is nonsensical:

    Ironically, a number of the street safety improvements proposed would actually make fire departments’ lives easier. In Europe and Asia, fire trucks can use bus and even bike lanes to bypass traffic. But in American cities—especially my own NYC—it’s all too common to see fire trucks, ambulances, and other emergency vehicles stuck in bumper-to-bumper jams behind private cars. Congestion pricing, which firefighters vocally oppose, would reduce the traffic that the FDNY has claimed is causing slower response times.

    The author argues that part of the issue is that fire departments have a "narrow safety mandate": they care about fire safety and basically nothing else. They don't appreciate the damage that they do in terms of traffic fatalities while attempting to reduce fire deaths because it's outside of their mandate.

    They conclude that while it's valuable to get fire departments' input on matters pertinent to their ability to complete their duties, it's "absurd" to do so when those departments are not incentivized to care about public safety in a broader sense. Because currently, taking firefighters' word as gospel -- at the expense of hard, empirical data -- is a net negative for our society.

    33 votes
    1. [3]
      UP8
      Link Parent
      Every time we decide that the refrigerants we are using are not environmentally safe the idea comes up that we could use propane as a working fluid but the terror of fire means that we always fall...

      Every time we decide that the refrigerants we are using are not environmentally safe the idea comes up that we could use propane as a working fluid but the terror of fire means that we always fall back on some patented F-gas

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinated_gases

      that is fantastically expensive and so far none of those last long enough to go off patent.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
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        Comment box Scope: comment response Tone: neutral Opinion: none Sarcasm/humor: none This is interesting, though I don't think I've had any conversations in urbanist circles about fluorinated...
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        This is interesting, though I don't think I've had any conversations in urbanist circles about fluorinated gases. I can't say I know enough about refrigerants to comment on their fire safety risk.

        Environmentally speaking, I agree that refrigerants are an issue. It looks like the US Environmental Protection Agency has a program about alternatives to traditional refrigerants.

        4 votes
        1. UP8
          Link Parent
          It’s not just refrigerants, it is the irrational fear of fire in the US leading to regulations that impregnate everything from children’s pajamas to all sorts of furniture with toxic flame...

          It’s not just refrigerants, it is the irrational fear of fire in the US leading to regulations that impregnate everything from children’s pajamas to all sorts of furniture with toxic flame retardants.

          The refrigerant issue is one where it has been both Greenpeace and the Larouche Organization on Team Propane against the rest of the world whenever the issue comes up, which it does frequently. Turns out the oils used to lubricate the compressor can burn up even with a F-gas refrigerant and the amount of propane required is not a whole lot.

          7 votes
    2. [2]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      To me, access for emergency vehicles and traffic accidents involving emergency vehicles seem like unrelated problems. For example, it seems like blocking an ambulance with a parked car might still...

      To me, access for emergency vehicles and traffic accidents involving emergency vehicles seem like unrelated problems. For example, it seems like blocking an ambulance with a parked car might still be a problem even if they didn’t speed to get there? The question is, can you get the ambulance there at all, in any reasonable time?

      Using sidewalks and bike lanes for emergency access seems like smart planning, but they would need to be wide enough for that purpose and kept clear.

      2 votes
      1. Minori
        Link Parent
        I'd wager it's much easier for cyclists and pedestrians to hop off a paved road than dozens of cars moving aside. I'm not familiar with any examples of this though.

        I'd wager it's much easier for cyclists and pedestrians to hop off a paved road than dozens of cars moving aside. I'm not familiar with any examples of this though.

        2 votes
  2. [6]
    skybrian
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    This line in the blog post seems misleading: Sounds bad! But if you click through: Asking for an exemption is different! It doesn’t seem like they’re opposing congestion pricing altogether? An...

    This line in the blog post seems misleading:

    • New York firefighters have loudly opposed New York’s congestion pricing plan, which plans to generate additional funding for transit by charging a $15 fee to vehicles entering lower Manhattan.

    Sounds bad! But if you click through:

    There were 155 people registered to speak, including many FDNY members frustrated they are not exempt, despite being essential workers

    Asking for an exemption is different! It doesn’t seem like they’re opposing congestion pricing altogether? An exemption is reasonable, but alternatively, maybe their employer (the fire department) should pay the fee when they’re on official business? Any employer should do that since it’s a cost of business. (For the city, it’s a wash.)

    Raising these concerns at a public meeting is democracy at work. There are public officials who could fix it.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
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      Comment box Scope: comment response, opinion Tone: neutral Opinion: yes Sarcasm/humor: none Official government vehicles do receive exemptions in the final version of the plan. That includes fire...
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      Official government vehicles do receive exemptions in the final version of the plan. That includes fire trucks.

      These firefighters are upset that they will not receive personal exemptions for their personal vehicles when entering lower Manhattan. Their request for a personal exemption would apply regardless of whether they are actually driving into lower Manhattan to engage in professional business. This is because the toll camera would be unable to identify if they were going to access their official government vehicles (the fire trucks) at the station or something else. As far as the toll camera is concerned, they are in a private vehicle; either they are exempt when traveling in that vehicle, or they are not.

      Other public sector employees, such as teachers, had the same request. They were also denied.

      Manhattan's transportation network is so unbelievably good, and constantly getting better, that I do not consider this request legitimate. I do not believe a firefighter has a divine right to drive a personal automobile to work into Manhattan, certainly not any more than any other person. They can take the extensive and frequent subways like the rest of us instead of contributing to traffic.

      Actual emergency operations are different, and congestion pricing doesn't apply to them. Paid firefighters do not go home when they're on-duty. Paid firefighters work 24-hour shifts in the station, so if they truly need to be the first ones on the scene, they will already have access to their gear and their Official Government Vehicles (to which congestion pricing does not apply). NYC has a few volunteer firefighters who would be responding to emergencies from their homes (i.e. with gear, which isn't suitable for the subway), but none of them are responsible for doing anything in Manhattan, so the congestion pricing charge is irrelevant to their duties.

      I don't see any problem with the city paying for toll fees when they're on official business (for example, driving personal vehicles in an official capacity while in Manhattan... for whatever reason). But that's not the same thing as a categorical exemption. In one system, the toll does not charge you; in the other, it does charge you, and you are reimbursed by your employer.

      11 votes
      1. skybrian
        Link Parent
        Yeah, if it’s just commuting to work then maybe no exemption is needed? I don’t know enough about how Manhattan firefighters use their personal vehicles to say. Either way, the situation isn’t...

        Yeah, if it’s just commuting to work then maybe no exemption is needed? I don’t know enough about how Manhattan firefighters use their personal vehicles to say. Either way, the situation isn’t explained very well in the blog post, or in the news article it links to.

        This is a problem with examples sometimes. There’s a whole story behind them, which requires putting things in context to understand it.

        5 votes
    2. [3]
      Carrow
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      This line is also misleading Clicking the link, it is about apartment buildings with single stair access -- current building codes usually require two exits, the change desired is to allow single...

      This line is also misleading

      Fire departments continue leading opposition to bringing the US’s building code in line with that of European and Asian peer countries, despite those countries’ lower fire death rates.

      Clicking the link, it is about apartment buildings with single stair access -- current building codes usually require two exits, the change desired is to allow single stair apartment buildings. The lower rate of deaths is an aggregate measure across those countries and draws no link to single stair access or building codes like the blog implies.

      The fire departments claim bad exiting is the cause of many fatalities, backed up by FEMA data here (https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v21i3.pdf). Their issue with the changes is that they're too broad (include hotels, dorms, etc.) and disparate fire codes are unprepared to handle this type of building safely. The bill was updated after consulting with fire chiefs to require sprinklers in single stair buildings and that they're built where fire departments have trucks that can reach 6 stories.

      10 votes
      1. [2]
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        Comment box Scope: comment response, information Tone: neutral Opinion: only at the end Sarcasm/humor: none The FEMA document linked does not state that having multiple staircases in a building...
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        The FEMA document linked does not state that having multiple staircases in a building reduces fatality risk, it just says that egress efficiency can influence fatalities.

        There isn't a lot of research on this particular question. Here's all I could find:

        Lei and Tai 2019 state:

        When an exit was located facing the staircase, the evacuation time was lower.

        The locations of staircases had a minimal effect on evacuation.

        With an equivalent exit width, the evacuation efficiency of a building with two exits was higher.

        Therefore, buildings should be designed with exits facing the staircases. If feasible, large staircases should be replaced with two identical sets of staircases. These measures will facilitate evacuation.

        It's not clear to me if "the evacuation efficiency of a building with two exits" means two exits or if it means two staircases. Because these are not the same thing. It is possible to have multiple exits to a building with one staircase, and multiple staircases in a building with just one exit. Or one-for-one.

        I don't know if I really have a position on this particular issue. While probably a contributing factor, I doubt that staircases are really the primary source of housing inefficiency in the US considering how many pointless urban parking lots we have. But instinctively, it seems to me that if European countries (with older housing stock) are capable of much more effective fire safety track records than the United States is without requiring multiple staircases, the United States should, if nothing else, amend its fire codes to better resemble European ones, in whatever form that takes.

        4 votes
        1. Carrow
          Link Parent
          Thank you for adding a more nuanced source. You're right that more specific studies would be more help here than the FEMA document. I wanted to make sure their claims of bad exiting causing...

          Thank you for adding a more nuanced source. You're right that more specific studies would be more help here than the FEMA document. I wanted to make sure their claims of bad exiting causing fatalities held up since that's the core of their argument, but the FEMA document is weak support of the argument for the reasons you cite.

          I do think the discussion of emergency services and how they lobby about roadways is a valuable one, it has given me food for thought that I haven't entirely finished chewing. I'm just disappointed in how the original post framed the linked article, as it does add to the discussion, but could be more accurately represented. I am otherwise not knowledgeable enough on building and fire codes to have a well developed stance on the issue (which is why I followed the link to begin with).

          I appreciate your dedication to helping folks be informed. You've challenged me to think differently about some aspects of our daily living and I've learned from your posts and comments.

          5 votes