26 votes

California Department of Motor Vehicles approves Waymo operation in many more cities

8 comments

  1. [7]
    TurtleCracker
    Link
    I was very skeptical of Waymo until I was in a city that had them active and about 50% of my rides were through it. I had a better experience, on average, with the Waymo vehicles compared to the...

    I was very skeptical of Waymo until I was in a city that had them active and about 50% of my rides were through it. I had a better experience, on average, with the Waymo vehicles compared to the human drivers. One human driver actually knew a lot of history and was a good driver. The others didn't really seem to know how to get around and drove recklessly.

    The only thing Waymo seemed to have issues with was confined parking lots. It could get stuck in awkward positions. It would eventually figure it out but it felt very awkward to be in a car doing a 3+ point turn in the middle of a parking lot due to some odd configuration of other vehicles.

    11 votes
    1. [5]
      LeberechtReinhold
      Link Parent
      My experience is similar in Austin. IMHO Uber 'comfort' type tends to have way better drivers that are both nicer and safer, but normal ubers? I got so many dangerous drivers that were high, as...

      My experience is similar in Austin. IMHO Uber 'comfort' type tends to have way better drivers that are both nicer and safer, but normal ubers? I got so many dangerous drivers that were high, as well as some that were very lost and ended in places they shouldn't. Some of them were super overworked, I remember one of them in Miami telling me that he got asleep at the wheel several times.

      They are around 20% slower than a normal one, but they are really nice cars and feel way way safer.

      There are several worries with them though. One is that people get used to them and know they are safe. Saw one cyclist on a main avenue due a 180 in front of a waymo because he felt safe in the waymo slowing down.

      The other issue is simply that they are good, nice spacious cars now. But years down the road, I can see them being very filthy messes, as I'm sure people will use them to fuck, being drunk af, drugs etc.

      And finally the typically tech bullshit as when they finally corner the market and drive humans away the prices will get crazy high.

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        scroll_lock
        Link Parent
        Comment box Scope: comment response, information, opinion Tone: neutral, slightly moralizing Opinion: yes Sarcasm/humor: none Seems like they are empirically safer too (96% reduction in crashes)....
        Comment box
        • Scope: comment response, information, opinion
        • Tone: neutral, slightly moralizing
        • Opinion: yes
        • Sarcasm/humor: none

        They are around 20% slower than a normal one, but they are really nice cars and feel way way safer.

        Seems like they are empirically safer too (96% reduction in crashes).

        If humans get "comfortable" around Waymos that travel more slowly, react better/faster than human drivers, and are safer for everyone, maybe that's just a return to a human-based society rather than a car-based one. Instead of urban/suburban people living in a subconsciously heightened fear state all the time, they can just... live? Without worrying about being instantly killed by a 2-ton death machine?

        I hear the practical worry you have, but the issue would be people getting comfy around Waymo behavior and forgetting that human-driven cars are dangerous, and doing the same stuff around them. Personally I consider this line of reasoning victim blaming, just like blaming dead cyclists for not wearing bright enough colors. The problem is still humans being terrible drivers, and engineers designing dangerous environments. The direct source of traffic violence and fatality is cars having too much [mass * velocity], not vulnerable road users.

        The engineering process of making streets ~100% safe is essentially solved and some cities have achieved Vision Zero already (like Helsinki and Hoboken). It is not implemented everywhere for mostly political reasons, not scientific ones.

        when they finally corner the market and drive humans away the prices will get crazy high.

        I doubt this very much. Waymo's competition now is human drivers. But other autonomous car companies exist and will compete for market share just like Uber and Lyft compete with each other. I don't see how this could possibly raise prices when the underlying cost of operating the service will be lower.

        7 votes
        1. [2]
          skybrian
          Link Parent
          I think there might be a misunderstanding - “they” in that first quote seems to refer to Uber Comfort drivers? They are more highly rated by Uber, but it seems unlikely that studies exist showing...

          I think there might be a misunderstanding - “they” in that first quote seems to refer to Uber Comfort drivers? They are more highly rated by Uber, but it seems unlikely that studies exist showing them to be safer drivers.

          2 votes
          1. scroll_lock
            Link Parent
            Comment box Scope: comment response, information, opinion, clarification Tone: neutral, clarifying Opinion: yes Sarcasm/humor: none You are right, I misinterpreted the comment. The study I linked...
            Comment box
            • Scope: comment response, information, opinion, clarification
            • Tone: neutral, clarifying
            • Opinion: yes
            • Sarcasm/humor: none

            You are right, I misinterpreted the comment. The study I linked states that Waymos have a 96% crash risk reduction against a typical driver. You are right that no studies exist evaluating UberX vs Uber Comfort for crash risk (that I am aware of).

            My guess is that the difference is small relative to the difference between any human rideshare and Waymo. Anecdotally, Uber Comfort or other premium tiers DO have safer drivers, however the Waymo can still react to things 100x faster and never gets distracted. And unlike humans, the robo-taxi software keeps getting better.

            I have really changed my mind on these Robot cars. I was skeptical of them 1-2 years ago but now I think they are a plus, at least for safety, we'll see about more holistic questions later.

            2 votes
      2. teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        Well thankfully there is likely to be good competition. Tesla has a competitor (but I’ve heard about safety issues so I haven’t used it). Amazon has Zoox which looks like it’s close to launching...

        Well thankfully there is likely to be good competition. Tesla has a competitor (but I’ve heard about safety issues so I haven’t used it). Amazon has Zoox which looks like it’s close to launching in San Francisco.

        The lack of a human driver however has been a problem for me with Waymo. I once got into a car that had vomit in it. They did refund me and gave me some extra ride credits. What’s crazy is the person who vomited inside got out right in front of me as I was approaching the vehicle and didn’t say anything!

        Also the Jaguars they use aren’t big enough to move some large items. I tried loading a Bambu H2D into one and had to cancel and order an Uber XL.

        3 votes
    2. skybrian
      Link Parent
      I imagine a driverless car could be made that’s good at driving backwards if it needed to, but perhaps that would seem unsafe, or they don’t have enough sensors pointing backwards.

      I imagine a driverless car could be made that’s good at driving backwards if it needed to, but perhaps that would seem unsafe, or they don’t have enough sensors pointing backwards.

      2 votes
  2. DaveJarvis
    Link
    My near-future sci-fi novel explores some of the ramifications of driverless vehicles: the good, the bad, and the harrowing. Beta readers wanted! DM me your name and email if interested.

    My near-future sci-fi novel explores some of the ramifications of driverless vehicles: the good, the bad, and the harrowing. Beta readers wanted! DM me your name and email if interested.

    1 vote