16 votes

Russia’s fabled war ally ‘General Frost’ turns on Moscow

10 comments

  1. CptBluebear
    (edited )
    Link
    It's an easy talking point but clearly nonsense as soon as you look at the term twice. If anything, "General Frost" exacerbates supply line issues, something that doesn't happen if you play war in...

    It's an easy talking point but clearly nonsense as soon as you look at the term twice. If anything, "General Frost" exacerbates supply line issues, something that doesn't happen if you play war in your own backyard. Now the shoe is on the other foot and Russia is the one with the (albeit only slightly) stretched supply lines.

    The person in the article is right: nature favours no one.
    But perhaps it favours the defender just ever so slightly more.

    15 votes
  2. [6]
    Sodliddesu
    Link
    Of all the things I learned about Russia lately, this is potentially the most interesting to me right now. Leftover outdated Soviet design or just... I don't even get it, why doesn't every...

    Some 20,000 people in the cities of Klimovsk, Lyubertsy, and Podolsk, in the Moscow region, have been left without heating for days — some of them for weeks — as temperatures have dropped below -25C last week, ...

    According to the state-run TASS news agency, the main reason for the lack of heat was a broken boiler at a local ammunition factory that supplies the Russian army’s war in Ukraine but also used to provide heat to Klimovsk and its outskirts.

    Of all the things I learned about Russia lately, this is potentially the most interesting to me right now. Leftover outdated Soviet design or just... I don't even get it, why doesn't every building, or even block of buildings, just have its own boiler? Providing heat to three cities from an ammo factory? I mean, redundancy is resiliency and I thought the Russians praised themselves on their resilience.

    11 votes
    1. [3]
      scherlock
      Link Parent
      This was relatively common during the era of steam heating. There are buildings in NYC that get steam from ConEd plants https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system. Large industrial...

      This was relatively common during the era of steam heating. There are buildings in NYC that get steam from ConEd plants https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system. Large industrial plants need huge boilers, heating homes requires only a little stream since steam can hold massive amounts of heat, so having a large central boiler is cheaper and safer. If you are building a large boiler making it slightly larger to provide heat to surrounding communities is a pretty good idea.

      17 votes
      1. [2]
        stu2b50
        Link Parent
        I use to live in an apartment in NYC that was steam powered. Definitely… an interesting experience. You can’t set the temperature at all in the winter, it’s just whatever the building decides is...

        I use to live in an apartment in NYC that was steam powered. Definitely… an interesting experience. You can’t set the temperature at all in the winter, it’s just whatever the building decides is the amount of steam you get. Usually it’s too hot for my liking and I had to open the window to balance it out.

        The radiators can also makes a rattling sound when the steam is on. I use to think my roommate was cooking at 3am before I realized it was just the sound of the radiator in the living room/kitchen.

        5 votes
        1. scherlock
          Link Parent
          Unfortunately, maintaining steam heating systems is something of a lost art. You have to be on top of maintenance. I helped maintain a steam system for a few years back in college. Everyone...

          Unfortunately, maintaining steam heating systems is something of a lost art. You have to be on top of maintenance.

          I helped maintain a steam system for a few years back in college. Everyone complained the system didn't work right, etc. I bought some old manuals on how to run, maintain and diagnose steam systems. I spent two months replacing and repairing steam traps and valves all over the building, kept on top of the water levels in the boiler and got that system work great.

          Even in the relatively small system I worked on, there were weekly maintenance tasks to keep it running efficiently, you defer the maintenance and it'll start breaking down.

          9 votes
    2. [2]
      Bwerf
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Sweden mostly does the same thing. Not ammo factories, but central "combined heat and power station" (kraftvärmeverk). They supply hot water to the whole town in some cases and the water in each...

      Sweden mostly does the same thing. Not ammo factories, but central "combined heat and power station" (kraftvärmeverk). They supply hot water to the whole town in some cases and the water in each house is heated by the water from the central heater. Works pretty great, we dont worry about warm water running out when everyone is showering in the morning. The huge heaters also means they can be built more efficiently, although i assume some of that efficiency is lost in the longer transport. We pretty famously burn our garbage for warmth instead of putting it in landfills resulting in us from time to time importing garbage.

      Edit: Turns out its called district heating in English (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating). In Sweden i think we mostly use for water and not Steam as someone else wrote about. I also learned that district heating is number 27 on some list to combat global warming (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawdown_(climate) ).

      8 votes
      1. nukeman
        Link Parent
        Many European systems are more modern and able to use hot water instead of steam. On the climate side, some countries (inc. China) are developing nuclear reactors solely for distinct heating...

        Many European systems are more modern and able to use hot water instead of steam.

        On the climate side, some countries (inc. China) are developing nuclear reactors solely for distinct heating (which ends up being simpler than for electric power generation).

        2 votes
  3. [2]
    MetaMoss
    Link
    The classic "Russia in winter" examples of Napoleon and Hitler were defensive wars on Russia's part. Can't expect the same benefits when you're the aggressor.

    The classic "Russia in winter" examples of Napoleon and Hitler were defensive wars on Russia's part. Can't expect the same benefits when you're the aggressor.

    8 votes
    1. Promonk
      Link Parent
      Except this isn't about the war effort directly, it's about the Russian Federation's inability to provide basic necessities of life to the citizens of its capital. That's in large measure due to...

      Except this isn't about the war effort directly, it's about the Russian Federation's inability to provide basic necessities of life to the citizens of its capital. That's in large measure due to the sanctions imposed on them because of their stupid invasion, but it isn't the war effort that's feeling the worst of the bite, it's the citizens.

      I wonder how long it'll take before the Russians realize that supporting the regime that's made them international pariahs won't do for them?

      6 votes
  4. [2]
    Comment removed by site admin
    Link
    1. chocobean
      Link Parent
      On the contrary I think if Putin actually kicked it the war would stop in the same week. Dictators get crazier as they age and receive less and less good info because they've killed off all the...

      On the contrary I think if Putin actually kicked it the war would stop in the same week. Dictators get crazier as they age and receive less and less good info because they've killed off all the competent truth tellers

      5 votes