26 votes

Black paint on wind turbines sharply reduces bird death but there are issues

23 comments

  1. [5]
    battybattybat
    Link

    A lot of people from turbine manufacturers asked if I had considered the technical implications of this. I hadn’t, because I’m an ecologist, not an engineer. Apparently black blades will heat up more than white blades, which may cause structural effects. And the black paint is made with carbon, which could affect the turbine’s performance when hit by lightning. Engineers don’t like that. So we need to overcome these disciplinary silos and work together to develop functional mitigation measures.

    20 votes
    1. [4]
      CannibalisticApple
      Link Parent
      I wonder if other colors can be just as effective. The article mentions this study in South Africa where they're using "signal red" instead of black, and the included photo also has it use stripes...

      I wonder if other colors can be just as effective. The article mentions this study in South Africa where they're using "signal red" instead of black, and the included photo also has it use stripes rather than paint the entire blade. It mentions some manufacturers also already paint turbines with red tips due to civilian air safety requirements.

      That article also goes into how the weight of the paint can have an effect, and explains more of the technical details and challenges with implementing it.

      In addition, the extra weight of the paint (approximately 60kg for a 40m blade that had roughly 75% of its area painted) may also have a physical impact on the blades.

      The rotational balancing of all three blades needs to be achieved to prevent strain on the drivetrain and associated operational and energy production issues.

      “However, this can be overcome by counterbalancing the other two blades by painting the same additional quantity of white paint,” the briefing document noted.

      The actual painting of the blades, too, can present a technical and “somewhat costly challenge” for operational wind farms. Painting under windy conditions can be challenging and present health and safety risks to workers.

      “This can have cost implications for the wind farm if they need to fund and procure the necessary professional services to paint the blades. There will also be operational costs and losses if the turbines need to be stopped for any amount of time when energy production is required.”

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        EgoEimi
        Link Parent
        I'm surprised no one has built a drone for this yet. Seems like the perfect task.

        I'm surprised no one has built a drone for this yet. Seems like the perfect task.

        2 votes
        1. Fal
          Link Parent
          The Drone Bird Company does more or less what you're describing I think

          The Drone Bird Company does more or less what you're describing I think

          3 votes
        2. CannibalisticApple
          Link Parent
          I'm guessing the windy conditions are the limiting factor, since strong winds can easily push them around and they'd need to remain in place while applying paint to specific areas.

          I'm guessing the windy conditions are the limiting factor, since strong winds can easily push them around and they'd need to remain in place while applying paint to specific areas.

          3 votes
  2. infpossibilityspace
    Link
    I remember a doing a module during my Physics degree many years ago about biomimicry; one of the things mentioned was integrating reflective UV stripes onto skyscraper glass, because spider webs...

    I remember a doing a module during my Physics degree many years ago about biomimicry; one of the things mentioned was integrating reflective UV stripes onto skyscraper glass, because spider webs also reflect UV and birds can see/avoid it. Some studies had shown that this glass did significantly reduce bird collisions.

    Obviously there's a big difference between static glass and rotating turbine blades, but I wonder if there are ongoing tests using a similar principle.

    11 votes
  3. [17]
    gowestyoungman
    (edited )
    Link
    I've gone down a rabbit hole on the claim that "wind turbines kill a lot of birds" and honestly, after researching as much as I could, I think its mostly fabricated. If you look at multiple sites...

    Wind turbines kill a lot of birds, particularly eagles and other raptors. The exact number is unknown, because many of the world’s wind farms don’t monitor bird deaths.

    I've gone down a rabbit hole on the claim that "wind turbines kill a lot of birds" and honestly, after researching as much as I could, I think its mostly fabricated. If you look at multiple sites they all make the same claim - high estimates of millions killed - but no one seems to have any proof. This is typical in the studies: "We systematically derived an estimate of bird mortality for U.S. monopole turbines by applying inclusion criteria to compiled studies, identifying correlates of mortality, and utilizing a predictive model to estimate mortality along with uncertainty." So the studies looked at other estimated studies and made up their own estimates? Is that hard science? What happened to direct observation? Video monitoring? Thermal image tracking cameras at a fixed site?

    The MOST I could find was a few pics that showed a few birds laying at the base of a turbine and even those, the photographer admitted he collected the birds from around the area and grouped them together to emphasize the shot. I believe this is the shot that's most used: https://climatechangedispatch.com/the-sinister-truth-about-bird-killing-wind-farms/

    IF turbines were killing a lot of birds, somebody somewhere would have video or photographic proof of it. Or a study that shows how bird deaths were monitored and there were dozens or hundreds killed. It doesnt seem to exist. And without obvious proof, I am skeptical of the estimates.

    5 votes
    1. [3]
      CannibalisticApple
      Link Parent
      While the "millions of birds" number absolutely feels like an exaggeration to try to get people more worked up about it (in the same vein of PETA exaggerating animal abuse allegations), I don't...

      While the "millions of birds" number absolutely feels like an exaggeration to try to get people more worked up about it (in the same vein of PETA exaggerating animal abuse allegations), I don't think that means the problem is nonexistent.

      Honestly I think the bigger concern for ecologists isn't the number, but the fact that of the birds that DO die, there are many endangered species. A single death can have a BIG impact on that species' chance of long-term survival/recovery, as it cuts down the possibility for at least one mating pair and can potentially orphan chicks or eggs leading to their deaths.

      Literally, the first point of this article says:

      How bad are wind turbines for birds?

      Roel May: It depends a lot on where you put the turbines, and whether there’s breeding or foraging areas nearby, and the species of birds. If you put wind turbines smack in the middle of a vulnerable population, the effect can be quite large. That’s what happened in Norway on the island of Smøla, which is a hot spot for white-tailed eagles. That’s where we did our study.

      So this problem's relevance is based on a very case-by-case basis. In that vein, that also is probably why there have been limited studies. The significance and impact will vary for each location, so you can't just use the numbers counted from one or even five locations to estimate a global average or impact. One farm may have 100 fairly common birds a year get killed, but another could have 6 deaths belonging to a critically endangered species with a population under than 250. Those are two very different impacts.

      10 votes
      1. CptBluebear
        Link Parent
        Reminds me of the Bearded Vulture in the Netherlands. The species is at risk and I think only a handful exist here. One of them decided to headbutt a train and the bird obviously folded like paper...

        Honestly I think the bigger concern for ecologists isn't the number, but the fact that of the birds that DO die, there are many endangered species. A single death can have a BIG impact on that species' chance of long-term survival/recovery

        Reminds me of the Bearded Vulture in the Netherlands. The species is at risk and I think only a handful exist here.

        One of them decided to headbutt a train and the bird obviously folded like paper and became news. It wasn't the fact that birds hit trains, it's that this specific bird's death is significant enough to impact the species.

        If we can somewhat cheaply prevent another endangered bird from hitting a turbine it's a good thing.

        6 votes
      2. kacey
        Link Parent
        Agreed that it's a problem worth thinking about and quantifying, but it needs to be compared against the relative harm of spinning up an equivalent amount of non-wind energy to make a decision one...

        Agreed that it's a problem worth thinking about and quantifying, but it needs to be compared against the relative harm of spinning up an equivalent amount of non-wind energy to make a decision one way or another. I suppose the alternative is requiring less energy as a society, but that doesn't seem like it'll be happening any time soon.

        3 votes
    2. [13]
      boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      I'll have to see if I have time for my own rabbit hole. Do you have a similar question about glass skyscrapers on migration routes? How broad is your claim?

      I'll have to see if I have time for my own rabbit hole.

      Do you have a similar question about glass skyscrapers on migration routes? How broad is your claim?

      1 vote
      1. [12]
        gowestyoungman
        Link Parent
        No I would believe a claim about skyscrapers killing millions much more readily than turbines. On our own acreage we have birds killing or at least stunning themselves so regularly that we put...

        No I would believe a claim about skyscrapers killing millions much more readily than turbines. On our own acreage we have birds killing or at least stunning themselves so regularly that we put tape on the two most often hit windows to keep more from hurting themselves. Window injuries on a large building make sense to me. A big narrow blade that takes a great deal of precision and bad luck to hit just doesn't.

        3 votes
        1. [11]
          MimicSquid
          Link Parent
          What percentage of the time is the blade passing through the relevant range? If it's in any given section of its range 3% of the time (making up that number, to be clear) wouldn't it make sense...

          What percentage of the time is the blade passing through the relevant range? If it's in any given section of its range 3% of the time (making up that number, to be clear) wouldn't it make sense that it'd kill 3% as many birds as a building of the same size, times the number of windmills in the farm?

          1 vote
          1. [10]
            gowestyoungman
            Link Parent
            I dunno about that. Google says a typical turbine has a crossection width of 10 ft which thins down to a couple of feet at the tip, so maybe it averages 6 ft? But its constantly moving so the bird...

            I dunno about that. Google says a typical turbine has a crossection width of 10 ft which thins down to a couple of feet at the tip, so maybe it averages 6 ft? But its constantly moving so the bird has to not only be hitting that 6 ft blade but at the perfect time. A half second early or late and it probably gets a rude bit of turbulence.

            As opposed to a skyscraper with reflective glass. The birds are attracted to their own image, mistaking it for other birds, or think they can fly right through. My very unscientific analysis.

            1. CannibalisticApple
              Link Parent
              I'd say the movement actually makes it a bit easier to hit, since it means more potential places where they'd crash into a blade rather than just three stationary positions. I'm just thinking of...

              I'd say the movement actually makes it a bit easier to hit, since it means more potential places where they'd crash into a blade rather than just three stationary positions. I'm just thinking of trying to throw something between the blades of a fan, much easier when you don't have to time it. I'm pretty sure wind turbines spin slower than fans, but the principle seems similar enough to me.

              4 votes
            2. [7]
              boxer_dogs_dance
              Link Parent
              I'm not an engineer or a mathematician, but I think the function to determine that probability should include the speed of the blade and its size and also the speed of the bird and its size. A...

              I'm not an engineer or a mathematician, but I think the function to determine that probability should include the speed of the blade and its size and also the speed of the bird and its size. A goose or a stork or a swan should be at more risk than a swallow or a finch.

              4 votes
              1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                Link Parent
                Well now you also have to consider the height at which different birds fly, and the location of the turbines in which birds are relebant. Here they're mostly placed in cornfields and the birds at...

                Well now you also have to consider the height at which different birds fly, and the location of the turbines in which birds are relebant. Here they're mostly placed in cornfields and the birds at risk would be red-tailed hawks, blackbirds, crows, specific migratory fowl and local songbirds, etc. vs by or off the coast where seabirds may be the most at risk.

                More math

                2 votes
              2. [5]
                gowestyoungman
                Link Parent
                What it if was an African Swallow?

                What it if was an African Swallow?

                2 votes
                1. [4]
                  boxer_dogs_dance
                  Link Parent
                  Is this a Monty Python reference?

                  Is this a Monty Python reference?

                  1 vote
                  1. [3]
                    gowestyoungman
                    Link Parent
                    Possibly. If your mother smells of elderberries.

                    Possibly. If your mother smells of elderberries.

                    1 vote
                    1. [2]
                      boxer_dogs_dance
                      Link Parent
                      Monty Python was hit and miss for me. All my friends were into them for a while.

                      Monty Python was hit and miss for me. All my friends were into them for a while.

                      1 vote
                      1. gowestyoungman
                        Link Parent
                        I find its a whole lot funnier if you're extremely tired. But sometimes annoying too.

                        I find its a whole lot funnier if you're extremely tired. But sometimes annoying too.

                        1 vote
            3. whbboyd
              Link Parent
              This doesn't really matter. If the blades weren't moving, then a bird which would have hit a moving blade would instead miss the stationary blade, and vise versa. (I mean, ignoring that birds...

              its constantly moving

              This doesn't really matter. If the blades weren't moving, then a bird which would have hit a moving blade would instead miss the stationary blade, and vise versa. (I mean, ignoring that birds would almost certainly avoid a large, opaque, stationary obstacle.) In fact, you get a bit of bonus "range" on the spinning blades because they can hit a bird which "missed" them from an instantaneous cross-sectional area perspective.

              3 votes