This was a lot longer read than I expected and all the better for it! Always interesting to see the history of the world revealed through a single simple item. The link to the “Cookery and Dining...
This was a lot longer read than I expected and all the better for it! Always interesting to see the history of the world revealed through a single simple item. The link to the “Cookery and Dining in Imperial Rome by Apicius” book was also quite fun to look through, although I don’t think I’ll be trying the four calf brain stew anytime soon. There was also a recipe for pumpkin pie that was amusingly vague, just pumpkin, cumin, some oil and then “cook.”
Back to fish sauce, it’s interesting how it has ancient history of use in Europe and Asia. However now, at least in America, while Asian food is quite popular, the high sodium of some ingredients (or just the unfamiliarity, like msg) seems to prevent some ingredients, like fish sauce, from becoming a common cooking item or finding a place in more fusion recipes. If you think otherwise or see it in your non-Asian country though I would be curious to know some recipes!
This also reminds me of This 99% invisible podcast episode, about what makes a food end up in, and eventually escape, the international food aisle.
The West has Worcestershire sauce, which is a type of fish sauce, though it has more ingredients than a typical Asian fish sauce. It was common in my experience in the US.
The West has Worcestershire sauce, which is a type of fish sauce, though it has more ingredients than a typical Asian fish sauce. It was common in my experience in the US.
Great point, I’ve seen that used in meatloaf recipes. This bit of history on it is fun:
Great point, I’ve seen that used in meatloaf recipes. This bit of history on it is fun:
According to company lore, when the recipe was first mixed, the resulting product was so strong that it was considered inedible and the barrel was abandoned in the basement. Looking to make space in the storage area some 18 months later, the chemists decided to try it and discovered that the long-fermented sauce had mellowed and become palatable. In 1838, the first bottles of Lea & Perrins Worcestershire sauce were released to the general public.
I think fish sauce has equivalents in western cooking that make it less likely to be needed. Boullion cubes/paste or yeast extracts like Vegemite fill the same general salty/umami role, and so...
I think fish sauce has equivalents in western cooking that make it less likely to be needed. Boullion cubes/paste or yeast extracts like Vegemite fill the same general salty/umami role, and so it's not just culinary unfamiliarity that prevents further inroads into the west.
I don’t think salt or msg is preventing anything from being popular in the “west”. There’s no lack of salt in western diets lmao. If it’s anything, it’s that people, heartland Americans mostly,...
However now, at least in America, while Asian food is quite popular, the high sodium of some ingredients (or just the unfamiliarity, like msg) seems to prevent some ingredients, like fish sauce, from becoming a common cooking item or finding a place in more fusion recipes.
I don’t think salt or msg is preventing anything from being popular in the “west”. There’s no lack of salt in western diets lmao.
If it’s anything, it’s that people, heartland Americans mostly, are very unfamiliar with fish and scared of fishy tastes (that fishy is a pejorative adjective tells you all you need to know). Fish sauce smells strongly of fish - it doesn’t actually taste that strongly of fish, but the odor is there.
All that being said, Vietnamese and Thai restaurants are very popular in the west. Maybe not in middle of nowhere Kansas, but you’ll find them everywhere in even minor cities. Fish sauce doesn’t prevent anyone from eating pho.
Haha excellent point, the US definitely loves salty food, and I would guess that most pantries have soy sauce. The fish smell association is probably a difficult hurdle, as shown by the durability...
Haha excellent point, the US definitely loves salty food, and I would guess that most pantries have soy sauce. The fish smell association is probably a difficult hurdle, as shown by the durability of the “don’t microwave fish in the office” joke, although I in recent years there’s been some justified pushback on the humor of that.
At least in Portland Oregon, many restaurants have a health food focus, and so fusion dishes often highlight fresh ingredients, as opposed to delicious street foods and sauces. The food carts can fill that gap though.
On the American food website seriouseats fish sauce is used reasonably frequently in non-asian dishes to add umami, as in this recipe for Italian-american red sauce.
If you think otherwise or see it in your non-Asian country though I would be curious to know some recipes!
On the American food website seriouseats fish sauce is used reasonably frequently in non-asian dishes to add umami, as in this recipe for Italian-american red sauce.
Wow! I’ll definitely have to try that recipe. Serious Eats does a great job experimenting, I really like their cast iron pizza recipe under a gas oven broiler.
Wow! I’ll definitely have to try that recipe. Serious Eats does a great job experimenting, I really like their cast iron pizza recipe under a gas oven broiler.
this part was interesting to me: I wonder how many other things are like this, basically people around the world independently thinking of similar solutions to a situation or problem. I heard that...
this part was interesting to me:
it’s not a stretch to think of how people may have used the same logic to start fermenting a perishable good to make an umami sauce that helped food taste better.
I wonder how many other things are like this, basically people around the world independently thinking of similar solutions to a situation or problem.
I heard that "dumplings" are kind of similar in that there are a lot of different variations across a lot of different cultures that may or may not have had a single common origin.
I think of hand pies like this - whether a samosa, or empanada or Jamaican patty or a hot pocket, sometimes you want to carry your main course around in a crust to keep it warm (and keep you...
I think of hand pies like this - whether a samosa, or empanada or Jamaican patty or a hot pocket, sometimes you want to carry your main course around in a crust to keep it warm (and keep you relatively safe/clean).
This was a lot longer read than I expected and all the better for it! Always interesting to see the history of the world revealed through a single simple item. The link to the “Cookery and Dining in Imperial Rome by Apicius” book was also quite fun to look through, although I don’t think I’ll be trying the four calf brain stew anytime soon. There was also a recipe for pumpkin pie that was amusingly vague, just pumpkin, cumin, some oil and then “cook.”
Back to fish sauce, it’s interesting how it has ancient history of use in Europe and Asia. However now, at least in America, while Asian food is quite popular, the high sodium of some ingredients (or just the unfamiliarity, like msg) seems to prevent some ingredients, like fish sauce, from becoming a common cooking item or finding a place in more fusion recipes. If you think otherwise or see it in your non-Asian country though I would be curious to know some recipes!
This also reminds me of This 99% invisible podcast episode, about what makes a food end up in, and eventually escape, the international food aisle.
The West has Worcestershire sauce, which is a type of fish sauce, though it has more ingredients than a typical Asian fish sauce. It was common in my experience in the US.
Great point, I’ve seen that used in meatloaf recipes. This bit of history on it is fun:
I think fish sauce has equivalents in western cooking that make it less likely to be needed. Boullion cubes/paste or yeast extracts like Vegemite fill the same general salty/umami role, and so it's not just culinary unfamiliarity that prevents further inroads into the west.
I don’t think salt or msg is preventing anything from being popular in the “west”. There’s no lack of salt in western diets lmao.
If it’s anything, it’s that people, heartland Americans mostly, are very unfamiliar with fish and scared of fishy tastes (that fishy is a pejorative adjective tells you all you need to know). Fish sauce smells strongly of fish - it doesn’t actually taste that strongly of fish, but the odor is there.
All that being said, Vietnamese and Thai restaurants are very popular in the west. Maybe not in middle of nowhere Kansas, but you’ll find them everywhere in even minor cities. Fish sauce doesn’t prevent anyone from eating pho.
Haha excellent point, the US definitely loves salty food, and I would guess that most pantries have soy sauce. The fish smell association is probably a difficult hurdle, as shown by the durability of the “don’t microwave fish in the office” joke, although I in recent years there’s been some justified pushback on the humor of that.
At least in Portland Oregon, many restaurants have a health food focus, and so fusion dishes often highlight fresh ingredients, as opposed to delicious street foods and sauces. The food carts can fill that gap though.
On the American food website seriouseats fish sauce is used reasonably frequently in non-asian dishes to add umami, as in this recipe for Italian-american red sauce.
Wow! I’ll definitely have to try that recipe. Serious Eats does a great job experimenting, I really like their cast iron pizza recipe under a gas oven broiler.
Mostly offtopic but obligatory link to the Tasting History garum episode. It's a classic.
this part was interesting to me:
I wonder how many other things are like this, basically people around the world independently thinking of similar solutions to a situation or problem.
I heard that "dumplings" are kind of similar in that there are a lot of different variations across a lot of different cultures that may or may not have had a single common origin.
I think of hand pies like this - whether a samosa, or empanada or Jamaican patty or a hot pocket, sometimes you want to carry your main course around in a crust to keep it warm (and keep you relatively safe/clean).