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System Shock remake discussion
Is anyone here playing/finished with the System Shock remake? I’d love to hear your thoughts whether you’re brand new to the series, played the original, or played System Shock 2.
- What are your thoughts on the game? What’s good and bad about it?
- How well did they pull off the remake?
- Does the game still appeal to modern sensibilities?
- Did you lose faith the game would even come out between now and when it was crowdfunded seven years ago?
- What other thoughts do you have?
Please mark any spoilers, either by warning in advance or by putting them inside of a details dropdown:
Spoiler
Look at you, Hacker…
Edit: I originally miscalled it a remaster. It’s a definitely a remake.
Disappointed, actually.
I played the original back in 2020 and absolutely adored it; so much so, I'd call it one of my favorite games of all time; I loved it even more than System Shock 2. The new one...I'm just not sure why it's not gripping me in the same way. A few of the complaints I have:
The graphics are weird. They're high fidelity, but the weird "retro pixelization" on every texture kind of throws me off. It feels extremely incongruous when you get up close to something and the texture looks like running Quake in Software mode. For the longest time, I kept thinking something was wrong with my graphics card.
There are countless redundant, pointless animations. Every time you pick up an audio log, for instance, your character looks at it for several seconds before putting it away and allowing you to actually play the log. I'm not saying we ought to streamline all these things out of games, but after the first time, I don't need to see it on repeat.
Sure, the enemy AI is dumb, but that doesn't bother me. Cyberspace is still kind of silly, but it's significantly improved from the original version. I'm just not entirely sure why it's not grabbing me quite the same, but I've put just over 10 hours into it so far and kind of feel done with it. Part of the charm of the original is seeing everything they could do with such a basic engine back in 1993, so exploring this huge space station and having a full blown immersive sim in what amounts to the Build engine was extremely impressive.
I'm just disappointed. I'm hoping some spark hits me and a I go back to it and finish it, but right now, I'm sort of regretting not spending the money on Darkest Dungeon 2 instead.
I really thought this was an amazing choice personally.
Loved seeing everything in HD, then getting a face full of the old "HAHA, PIXELS CAN SCARE YOU TOO!" was really good. It occassionally distracted my ADHD ass and I'd go down a rabbit hole. But it was just such a choice that I can't help but feel it's really quite audacious to actually decide to do that in 2023.
Definitely feels like "once a level" would be a good animation link for that. I liked the animation, but when you're hunting for logs... it gets tedious. I agree entirely.
I never actually played the original, I was too young. But I have always loved SHODAN as a 'big bad', in this.. she's unmistakenly terrifying in her context. You feel her panopticon of suffering eminating from every enemy, from every camera and her insanity spewing from every audio communication. She's phenomenal, vile, evil and such a glorious bad guy.
Gameplay felt really smooth. Took me a bit to go, "Hang on... there's no objectives menu, where the hell do I figure out what I'm supposed to do? oooh... X-22, oh... there's a log here somewhere..." and get into the swing of true immersion. Not that I wanted to throw myself off a few bridges the amount of times muggins here would run face first into radioactive areas and get absolutely fucked by it.
I enjoyed it. Took me a while, but by the time my initial "This is painful" had worn off... it was really enjoyable.
I actually loved this, it’s not super obvious at first glance and makes the game look retro while still feeling modern.
The pointless animations I definitely agree with, one of the more annoying things in the game for sure.
It...just doesn't hold up. The legacy that game left behind has been explored and evolved time and time again and to give us a game that is the prototype to everything else is to go back in time.
That's if you're just entering the series. It was a rude awakening to have all your progress lost because you didn't know autosaves weren't one of the things that made its way into this remaster. That style of gameplay is not common anymore. Neither is janky combat, neither is quest items being easily discarded, neither is a none uniform controller scheme combined with a keyboard and mouse inventory in an age filled with controllers.
As someone who's known of this game but has never jumped into the old one but played everything since, I couldn't be bothered to stay committed. It's just too much work. I've evolved and so has my taste in games. I may have enjoyed cutting my teeth on difficult games like system shock but I did my time, I don't want to anymore, not when I've been spoiled with tons of quality of life features, great graphics and still some difficulty.
They could have brought that great game into a modern era to show everyone what the grandfather of a genre looks like, but they opted to cater to the hardcore fans of the original and disappointed them as well.
The remaster doesn't know what it's doing and it fails at both trying to appeal to new fans and appeasing the old ones. Although it's much easier for an old fan to pick this up.
I typically like remasters because I've played the originals and just want to see my old toy new again. Or it let's me jump into a series I'd otherwise never get into because it was too old. This is the first one that's done nothing for me and it's a shame considering how much I love everything else that came after it.
Crash Bandicoot. They kept most of the feel of the original and gave it a new coat of paint. Great. Some things were edited and it's annoying but for the most part, pretty crash still fills me with nostalgia.
Still hard as balls, still got that 90s feel.
Diablo 2. They kept just about everything the same which is kind of disappointing considering the mods that exist for that game that have continued it to the modern age, but it looks pretty and the quality of life changes they did do make it somewhat worthwhile.
The best so far though? Resident Evil. Man they're doing it right. Gorgeous updates to the graphics, great quality of life changes, game feels modern but still has that campy feel, still has some elements of horror, fantastic all around. Two was phenomenal, three was short but fun, and I'm having a blast with 4 although I can see hardcore fans missing some camp and some jank, but that's okay. Great examples of how to bring old games to the modern era.
I have no doubt they'll knock 5 out of the park and I hope they just redo 6 altogether.
I know those examples were big studios and big budgets but mods are products of love and time and have done more for certain games than studios have. The remaster to system shock was less than what a couple talented modders have done and could do.
I disagree. This is one of the better examples of a remake. I also agree that Resident Evil remakes are fantastic.
System Shock commits to being faithful to the old game, not just from a story perspective but also from a gameplay design perspective. It modernizes what it can but keeps as much of it as close to the original as it can. Crash Bandicoot is another example of a game that did the same.
It's also fine if games reimagine the game, such as Resident Evil and even Dead Space to some extent, but that's not the only correct way to remake something.
While I could definitely tell that SS was designed based on the original game, it never felt dated. I loved that you had to figure out where to go and what to do yourself, no mission log or objective markers to guide you.
I should also note that I'm in my mid 20s and never played the original SS, so there is no nostalgia involved.
I was thinking this actually.
"How much better would this be with x modern sensibilities?!"
It wouldn't be. It'd be worse. Part of the charm is the sheer "What the fuck am I supposed to be doing?" attitude you have to have, especially as a new comer to the series. I said somewhere else that I love SHODAN, the gameplay took some getting used to and the "I can do whatever I want, whenever I want!" lead to a few Cortex'ings because of my own stupidity.
I like the open ended of it all. I like wondering around and I like figuring stuff out. I'm a big fan of morrowind for that same reason. That's not my gripe with the game. I'm not even asking for quest markers. You can have the old brutal feel of the game with just some quality of life stuff that makes the medicine go down is all. It doesn't need to be 1:1. It can be the same and better. They chose to do the same with the same and some new paint.
The souls series and even Nioh are good examples of this. Each game gets a little more quality of life that lessens the headache without taking away difficulty. System shock kept 100% of the headache and the difficulty.
I don't like artificial difficulty. I like my skills to be tested.
My old grouch is showing, but I hate most autosave systems. Specifically that a large number of them don't allow manual saves as well. Having an autosave before a boss or level change is nice, but manual saves are so much better for singleplayer titles.
That said, it's rare enough these days that there probably should be a warning that you must manually save.
I mean I agree. Don't hold my hand or anything, some games make any suspense or tension disappear because you just spawn a little further away if your lives are gone. I don't like that either. I don't mind walking back to my corpse and earning back my loot but don't be cruel about it either lol
I only started it because I've just got too much on my backlog, but I was absolutely impressed. I wish it wasn't quite as dark as it is, but that's about it. I never played the original but was always curious, then heard about the remake and figured i'd wait for that.
I did hear CONSTANT complaints that it'd never come out and be vaporware because they re did the engine or what not, and I remember watching a stream and thinking "oof this looks a bit rough" when they were hitting enemies with melee weapons with almost no feedback, but in the release it's GREAT.
I did hear that the "notes" system wasn't in on launch, and figured for something this big it sounds like a feature i'd want, but I believe that was in the first patch. I'm excited to dive back in and really get into it.
I’m extremely excited to try it! I backed it long long ago, and have since changed my product to the console version after abandoning PC gaming for console. I absolutely loved SS2 when I first played it a decade ago and it would be so cool to finally play the first game. Definitely psyched to replay SS2 on console when that comes out eventually too
The game was good. It brought the older System Shock into the modern era but it still felt the same as the old game in regards to the level design and general asthetic. The updated graphics made the levels easier to understand when compared to the older game.
The game had some interesting bugs that seems to hint that the staff may have had issues testing or coding the game. The game feels a bit more janky than it should and also has some oddities in the gameplay that people seem to find annoying as well...
Some Bugs and Oddities - Minor Spoilers
Bug (fixed) - Medbays being "occupied" after you use them so you couldn't use them again. I think this tied in to quick saving and quick loading which, if you see the "BOOM - DIE" part below, is something that you would be doing a ton of.
Bug (fixed) - Reactor self destruct "already activated". Apparently, when you complete that bit of the story, an achievement is unlocked. If you have the achievement, you can NEVER do that part of the story again (because you already done it) meaning you cannot reload older saves or restart the game.
Oddity - To get a desirable inventory perk, you have to play a chess game against the AI. Notably, you have to play a chess game well. The suggestion is that you go to a chess playing website and have the AI there play against the AI in the game... (this may have worked better if a logic probe could have been used to bypass the chess game)
Oddity - Sensaround confirms that there is an item at this location... but the item must have glitched out of the level...
Oddity - Security level entry door locks when you enter preventing you from back tracking. You likely kept some odd "plasma cores" in various crates on prior levels not knowing what to do with them. You get the Plasma Rifle on the Security level but have no way to go back to the prior levels to get the ammo for it (and there is no cargo lift on the Security level either).
An interesting frustrating tidbit is how you are playing the game and suddenly you "BOOM - DIE". Apparently this is done by pretty much silent Autobombs (think of an angry and explosive roller skate). Another enemy (Cyborg Warrior?) tends to throw sticky grenades that you barely notice (by sound and maybe by sight) so you tend to first notice those bombs by "BOOM - DIE". It was especially fun when one of those decided to throw a grenade into a door jam before I entered a room and right before I quick saved... so when I quick loaded from a "BOOM - DIE", I walked in the room only to die again... it was "fun" to try to find that grenade so I can shoot it and blow it up.
Considering that essentially everything else attacking you doesn't instakill you and clearly informs you that they are responsible for you dying, it seems odd that you get instakilled "BOOM - DIE" style in such a way that you have no idea what happened. It emphasized quick saving and quick loading which likely caused some bugs...
Still, the game was certainly worth playing and I am glad it was remade. I hope that they eventually make a System Shock 2 remake as well.
I played it, and I didn’t really like it. Couldn’t put my finger on it, but if I had to pick something, I’d’ve said it adhered too much to the original. Then I tried the original for comparison, and my lord, that isn’t true. It’s hilarious how much improved the remake is over the original. The original didn’t even have mouse look, didn’t have a manageable inventory, to name a few.
The remake fixes these problems, sure, but there’s too much that is just inherent to System Shock that simply doesn’t hold up these days. Yes, back in the day it might have been the best imsim, but it’s not back in the day anymore. Every area looks more or less the same, the level design is nonsensical at best and aggravating at worst, the story is threadbare, cyberspace gives me motion sickness, SHODAN isn’t nearly as interesting or charming a villain as everyone remembers, the mechanics are shallow, and it doesn’t nearly allow for player freedom like for instance Deus Ex or Prey do. Generally, if you want to play a game like SYstem Shock that’s actually “ready” for the modern day, try Prey instead.
I’m really enjoying the game. I’m about 8 hours in, so I can’t give a full assessment yet, but so far, so good.
I’ve tried to play the original a few times in my life but have always bounced off due to its UX issues. I don’t blame the game for that at all — it was made at a time when first-person games were a Wild West of control and interface paradigms (e.g. the original DOOM used mouse movement, not mouselook). I have played System Shock 2 though — both shortly after its release, and last year as well. It is one of my favorite games of all time, and I thought it held up really well even via a modern replay.
Playing the original in remake form is interesting, because it helps me contextualize just how much of an improvement System Shock 2 was at the time it came out. SS2 took the pieces of SS1 and built something recognizable but much better from them. It was more of everything that made this first one good, done in smarter and more successful ways — a solid iteration.
What that means is that, while playing this remake, I can see all those pieces and appreciate them, even if I don’t think they’re as satisfying as they are in System Shock 2. This is not meant as a slight at the game at all, because one of the things I’m also appreciating is how ahead of its time the game was (the original came out in 1994 — it’s about to turn 30!). This game is rich and robust and deep in a way that many games from that time period weren’t. Modern gaming has moved far past that, so it’s not at all novel and in fact can feel simplistic if I play it from the lens of “today”, but part of what I’m trying to do is play the game like it’s 1994 again.
In terms of downsides, I’ll say that I already felt that System Shock 2 was too much of a good thing, and that its convoluted maze-like levels end up overstaying their welcome by the end of the game.
Some of this is a modern criticism — at the time it came out, I was much more likely to spend a lot more time and patience on a single game than I am willing to do now. Nevertheless, the original seems to be even longer and even more maze-like.
One thing SS2 did really we was having its environments feel like interesting, cohesive places. In SS1 however, it’s clear the game is beholden to the original’s grid-based design. The devs did a good job of trying to give different visual feels to different decks to distinguish them, but ultimately you’re pretty much always running through boxy rooms with right angle turns. Each level is ultimately just a traditional maze with some great looking paint on it. I fully suspect I’m going to hit my limit on enjoyment of that well before I get to the end of the game.
One thing I really like in the remake which they pulled from the original was the ability to change difficulty levels of different components of the game separately (again, this game was way ahead of its time!). When I first started, I kept everything at difficulty level 2 — the default. It was punishingly hard. My progress in the game was a slow crawl. I probably could have continued that way, but I wasn’t having any fun. So, I restarted the game and dropped everything but the puzzles to 1. Now it is much more manageable. If I ever do a replay I might kick it up to 2, because being familiar with the level layouts and game systems helps a lot, and it does add some nice tension. Playing at difficulty level 1 is easy, which is fun, but it also feels a bit like cheating.
Ultimately I’m very happy with the remake. I think if they had been less faithful to the original, it would have more modern appeal, but I think they would have also angered a lot of people who wanted a glow up of the original game (many of whom backed the game six years ago). I think pleasing the die-hard fans was the right choice.