18 votes

Tildes Gaming Club, February 2024: Legacy

Tildes Gaming Club is a monthly space to play and discuss games that fit a loosely defined theme.

I see it as a gaming counterpart to our current Album of the Week, Movie of the Week, and Book Club series. Instead of everyone focusing everyone on the same game, however, we're all focused on the same core theme, and we independently choose a game (or games) that fit the theme.

To participate, play at least one game that fits the monthly theme, and talk about it here. You can make one post summarizing your game(s), or you can make multiple posts as you make your way through the game(s).

This month's theme is: Legacy

The theme is open-ended, and it’s encouraged that you interpret the theme however you like. If you need some ideas to get you started:

”Legacy” Ideas

You might play a game that…

  • left an important mark on gaming history
  • remains infamous today
  • is noteworthy for its cultural context, especially in hindsight
  • is part of an established, long-running series
  • has characters that spawn multiple generations
  • runs on old, outdated hardware
  • was for an older operating system
  • is an older/downpatched build
  • requires some modernization to appreciate
  • is no longer available to buy
  • has the word “Legacy” in its title

My goals for the Tildes Gaming Club are the following:

  1. I'm hoping this can be a fun way of choosing something to play.
  2. I'm hoping this can bring a group/community aspect to people independently enjoying their hobby.
  3. I'm hoping this can yield some interesting discussions about different themes.

9 comments

  1. [4]
    Thomas-C
    (edited )
    Link
    As I've gotten myself moved and the early parts of the new business going I've gone back to Monster Hunter, because its structure is very amenable to "ah shit I've only got about 30 minutes here"....
    • Exemplary

    As I've gotten myself moved and the early parts of the new business going I've gone back to Monster Hunter, because its structure is very amenable to "ah shit I've only got about 30 minutes here". You can still make good progress in that time, and it's very easy to just drop it and come back later. Quests can't ever be more than 50 minutes most of the time, and I've played for so long that I can say with confidence most of even the hardest things won't take me more than 20-30. I can sit down with limited time and know just about every time it's going to be enjoyable. MH began in 2004 and has been continuously iterated upon since then. The teams of people making it enjoy what seems like a really awesome setup - a "main" game gets developed, where new concepts are first attempted, and then a followup game will come along that iterates on what the main game did. What works especially well carries over past those two games.

    Originally I was playing Rise again, but decided to go back to World since that's what tons of other folks are doing, and good lord I had forgotten what a beautiful, and beautifully put together, game that is. It doesn't really try to do anything deep with its characters and story, but its audio-visual presentation and intricate gameplay systems set it apart in my opinion. In the way a band develops its sound and then pushes it to new places, MH developed its setup and then pushed that into whatever directions seemed interesting. World was a deliberate attempt at making the nicest looking, smoothest playing version up to that point, and it makes a huge difference when you can compare directly with what came after. I like Rise, a lot, but World is just on a whole other level with its graphical presentation and level design, gameplay differences aside. I just don't know of a lot with levels as lush and detailed as these, that put so much emphasis on delivering an illusion of being an active ecosystem.

    My character is built toward how i like to play. I am a dumb barbarian - I like to run in and beat the shit out of stuff and not think too much about it. If an element is helpful, slap an element jewel in the weapon, done. I've played these games long enough that I no longer enjoy putting together armor loadouts for every situation - I have much more fun attempting to thread the needle of creating a "one size fits all" build, and change weapon/tactics to adjust to new stuff. I main Sword and Shield, but switch to longsword when I want reach, and dual blades when I'm especially confident. World made a specific change to Sword and Shield I just cannot get over - the side-swipe/step-slash. During your combo, pretty much regardless of the move you're doing, if you push the stick in another direction and hit the attack button, your character will turn to face and slash forward, enabling an infinite combo if you time it right. Nearly every move can combo into and out of this. I basically built the whole character around stunning the monsters so that I could just keep doing this because it's so satisfying, like getting shit right in a fighting game but for as long as you can maintain it.

    As you go through, the game just keeps opening up. Because of the game's history and good management, you are experiencing systems that were carefully honed across multiple games. You won't come across much jank, like skills that don't do what they say they do, stats that don't calculate right, etc etc. You can trust what you see and rely on things to be consistent. What you'll typically encounter is a set of mechanics that get introduced, you're turned loose with that, and as you accomplish things your options begin to expand. In the beginning (called Low Rank), you can rely mostly on "big number good", and just focus on getting to grips with how the weapons work. Armor skills exist, but nothing at this point is going to be so difficult as to necessitate building a loadout around much of anything. As you clear the content, you unlock High Rank, where you are put up against more powerful versions of everything you've thus far seen, plus new, scarier monsters. High Rank has you focusing more on armor skills, because now the monsters are difficult enough that those skills can radically change how long things take. Finally, at Master Rank, you again are reintroduced to all the monsters you've thus far seen, enhanced with new behaviors and moves, and a final set of new monsters is revealed to you. At that point, it's really important to carefully put your build together, because a bad setup can mean excessively long hunting time or just having to deal with overwhelming damage. Basically, the game eases you in very, very gradually, and then provides a complete experience of ramping up as far as you could go.

    I will always play these games. MH is one of those special kinds of projects where folks have kept it up for a very long time, and so it's difficult to directly copy what it's doing. You can make a similar game, for sure, but a new developer has to do everything from scratch. The people making MH don't have to do that - they have their whole development history to look back on, use what already works, and elaborate where they want. By the time a competitor gets up to snuff, MH has broken new ground and integrated the lessons of it into the basic setup. It's very difficult to recreate something that exists as a result of a long, complex history and I don't think anyone has yet to do that with respect to MH. Competitor series like God Eater, or newer attempts like Dauntless and Wild Hearts, can't actually compete because a lot of what makes MH good is just plain hard work. Clever systems can produce cool stuff but it's gonna be tough to come out the gate with something that competes against 20 years of feedback. And again, because the teams making MH are as creative as ever, by the time someone does pull that off, MH is past it.

    I'm really excited for Wilds, because all along the way it's felt like there's a specific idea of what they want MH to be, that just hasn't yet been possible. A certain scale and level of detail seem to always have been goals, but reaching them has been gradual and piecemeal. It's only been with World and Rise that we got maps that didn't have loading zones, and MH has experimented with vertical movement going back to Tri. There's clearly a desire to have this big space where you can go anywhere and use what's around to help hunt down the monster, and I hope with Wilds they push the scale way out past anything they've done before. A multi-biome, open map done by these teams is guaranteed to be a beautiful thing.

    Anyway, that's what I'm up to. I've stopped following a lot of what happens in gaming in favor of diving deep on the stuff that lasts. There are a few groups out there doing just ridiculously good work, who are reaping big rewards and using those rewards to do it that much better, again. The "true" top of the class, I suppose might be a way of saying it - games that meet with continuous, big success because they're made well, as opposed to "successfully suckered some gambling addicts" and such. The "best" is happening all around us just like the worst, it's just that you have to decide what "best" means for yourself before you can find it. To me, the best of what capital g Gaming has to offer is stuff like MH - big, intricate things continuously growing and changing, delivering an ever-more-complex experience each time a new one happens, getting ever closer to the self-imposed ideal.

    7 votes
    1. [3]
      kfwyre
      Link Parent
      This is such a great post! I've never touched a Monster Hunter game but your enthusiasm for the series makes me want to try. Would you recommend that new players start with World, or would an...

      This is such a great post! I've never touched a Monster Hunter game but your enthusiasm for the series makes me want to try.

      Would you recommend that new players start with World, or would an earlier game that was less iterated be a better entry point?

      2 votes
      1. phoenixrises
        Link Parent
        (Not OP but...) World is a great starting off point. It's where I started and I'm about 500 hours deep in Monster Hunter games in general. It's incredible because there's so much variety in...

        (Not OP but...) World is a great starting off point. It's where I started and I'm about 500 hours deep in Monster Hunter games in general. It's incredible because there's so much variety in playstyles, and endlessly replayable to boot.

        I also just posted a comment in the Save Points thread ;)

        3 votes
      2. Thomas-C
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        World was made to be the new starting point, id say anybody interested is best served going there first. The presentation being so good means you're in for being shown everything you need while...

        World was made to be the new starting point, id say anybody interested is best served going there first. The presentation being so good means you're in for being shown everything you need while also seeing MH at its best.

        Edit: Just to add, if you do look at the series as a whole, tends to be 4 Ultimate is held up as just the best experience overall. 4U was when online multiplayer finally, FINALLY happened and it was just the most amazing thing. Generations Ultimate was the last game in the "old style", packed with more content than just about any of them. I still play Generations Ultimate from time to time, because its final boss is one of the most unique things I've ever had the pleasure of trying to overcome (Here is a really good video explaining both, why that fight rocks and just how deep the folks making these games are going with it).

        3 votes
  2. werehippy
    (edited )
    Link
    I'm going to tackle legacy from the angle that first jumped to mind when I saw the title, as the quasi-genre in boardgames that's developed over the last decade. It's not quite a genre in it's own...

    I'm going to tackle legacy from the angle that first jumped to mind when I saw the title, as the quasi-genre in boardgames that's developed over the last decade. It's not quite a genre in it's own right, as since it was first broadly introduced with Pandemic Legacy (one of the two games of that type I'm currently playing) in 2015 it's been applied to all sorts of wildly different games, so much as a general style and new approach.

    So, the idea behind legacy boardgames is to make the game dynamic between sessions and to give it a definitive arc and end point (though depending on the game you may or may not still be able to keep playing the final state you end up in). This can be done with adding stickers to change the board or the rules, destroying tokens or spots on the board, adding new characters/pieces/mechanics, or anything else the designers can think of depending on players actions and how each session goes.

    For a standard game of Pandemic are moving your working together with the other players by collecting sets of cards to try and cure the diseases while clearing those diseases advancing progression in random cities to avoid cascading outbreaks, and use your generic player roles to maximize what you can do as you go. It's a game of steadily escalating tension as you run around trying to put out fires while working towards the overall goal to win the game. And there's a lot of fun meat on those bones, there's a reason it's one of the pillars of the modern game renaissance.

    The spin Pandemic Legacy puts on this formula is that you not only have in the moment tension of pushing your luck to juggle crises and making decisions at that level, you now have to balance that against additional risk versus reward across sessions. You have specific named characters that can develop relationships with the other characters, gain new abilities as they get better at their jobs or weaknesses as they get stuck in bad situations dealing with the world falling apart. It isn't just the same strategy of dealing with the same diseases where the main variability is the luck of the draw in terms of what cities are impacted when; the diseases mutate to get harder to fight or are studied to get easier, and when you send in your characters to try and manage outbreaks you need to worry about the risk of them getting hurt in the civil unrest if you fail or watch cities get harder to help as government collapses when the diseases get out of control. It adds a huge amount of tension, investment, and narrative that makes every decision seem that much more fraught and meaningful, and it's easy to see why the same underlying formula has been applied to so many different games in recent years.

    5 votes
  3. Gekko
    Link
    Started playing the Halo Infinite co-op campaign with my partner. I played through all of the other games semi-recently with a bunch of friends because we love the story so much and it's...

    Started playing the Halo Infinite co-op campaign with my partner. I played through all of the other games semi-recently with a bunch of friends because we love the story so much and it's interesting to see how much of the core formula of the game carries through all of the titles. How the player controller gets modernized while still feeling like the original title. I'm a fan of the world building, especially in the first two games. The newest one being "halo with a grappling hook" is still comfortably nostalgic to play.

    Also planning to jump into the Halo books that have been written over the years, I'm interested in learning what I can about the story since the lore in the games is so interesting if sparse.

    Got in the mood to play Halo again because I'm running a Alien RPG tabletop game with colonial marines and watched the movies with the tabletop group, and seeing how that property influenced Halo gives my entire year so far this really neat sci-fi military/horror thru line.

    4 votes
  4. Carrow
    Link
    My partner and I went with some friends to a Distant Worlds concert recently. It is a concert that plays a setlist of songs across the Final Fantasy series. My partner hadn't played any, just...

    My partner and I went with some friends to a Distant Worlds concert recently. It is a concert that plays a setlist of songs across the Final Fantasy series. My partner hadn't played any, just heard precious Distant Worlds setlists I'd put on, but they were inspired to try one out.

    So my recommendation was Final Fantasy X (2001) for a few reasons:

    1. One of their favorite songs was To Zanarkand
    2. It represents a transition between neoclassical PS1 era JRPGs and their subsequent modernization (consider how "action-y" FF13-3, FF15, and FF16 are, plus two MMORPGs since), and as such is an interesting piece of gaming history (they appreciate such stuff since they haven't been as engaged with games as me). For example, it is the first voice acted Final Fantasy and has probably the largest leap in visual character model fidelity between any entries in the series.
    3. It's one of the last projects they had a lot of their super stars together on.
    4. Legacy, it's often cited as among the best/favorites across the whole series.

    We've been playing it together as I anticipated the patient aspects wouldn't appeal to them (turn based combat, equipment, leveling up through the sphere grid, the required blitzball tournament), but they have been quite taken with the rest of the game!

    They decided they wanted to play the original PS2 version emulated after reading up on the remaster, a decision I fully backed. So we moved a PC to the TV to emulate it. I suppose this technically fits with the last theme too since we started last week, but my tinkering project was more involved than this.

    4 votes
  5. stewedrabbit
    Link
    Loosely off topic probably: if you have younger kids, you really should try Zombie Kids Evolution. It isn't a legacy, but evolution game. The way the game starts with simple rules, but after a...

    Loosely off topic probably: if you have younger kids, you really should try Zombie Kids Evolution. It isn't a legacy, but evolution game. The way the game starts with simple rules, but after a couple of envelopes ends up with complex gameplay accessible for kids is just genius. This was the very first game the kids started playing on theirselves, without an adult participating (age 7 and 4). If there is one minor point, it would be that they simply raced through the evolutions. So after three months they had won about every trophy. But those were three months of happy, silent kids!

    3 votes
  6. moocow1452
    Link
    Got back into Hearthstone because they have a special bracket that only allows common cards up to their Year of the Dragon set which is about when I stopped playing. It’s kinda fun busting out the...

    Got back into Hearthstone because they have a special bracket that only allows common cards up to their Year of the Dragon set which is about when I stopped playing. It’s kinda fun busting out the old commons, tanking up with Warrior and seeing how high up the ladder I can go. Bronze rank was all robots, afk or cookie cutter decks though, so you’ll have to go through that before you get into the fun stuff.

    3 votes