Wow. An entire team resigning makes me wonder what else was going on behind the scenes. I'm guessing the failed spin-off had more contentious roots than the bland professional statements suggest.
Wow. An entire team resigning makes me wonder what else was going on behind the scenes. I'm guessing the failed spin-off had more contentious roots than the bland professional statements suggest.
I think I read (could be speculation) in the HN thread that Annapura wanted to integrate the video game division, which is doing well financially, into their financially troubled movie division in...
I think I read (could be speculation) in the HN thread that Annapura wanted to integrate the video game division, which is doing well financially, into their financially troubled movie division in order to prop it up. The video game guys wanted the complete opposite--to spin off as a separate entity entirely.
And a coordinated resignation likely means they are doing exactly that. I've been part of an entire department quitting (extremely poor management hire), and the process was spread out over a few...
And a coordinated resignation likely means they are doing exactly that.
I've been part of an entire department quitting (extremely poor management hire), and the process was spread out over a few months as people lined up their next gigs. An entire division doesn't quit en masse unless they've all been promised a destination.
Deeply troubled by this as Annapurna is probably my favorite publisher. Just look at the list of what they've done since starting back in 2017 : Outer Wilds, Gone Home, and Florence are games I...
Deeply troubled by this as Annapurna is probably my favorite publisher. Just look at the list of what they've done since starting back in 2017 : Outer Wilds, Gone Home, and Florence are games I constantly recommend and any time I hear they're publishing a game, I'm interested simply because they're constantly looking for games that bring new experiences to the medium.
Hope they figure this out or the team moves to a new company because this a pretty big loss for people the 'video games are art' kind of crowd.
Same, I'd started playing all their stuff because it just so consistently was exactly the sort of game I was looking for. So many great games they brought to my attention. I had started just going...
Same, I'd started playing all their stuff because it just so consistently was exactly the sort of game I was looking for. So many great games they brought to my attention. I had started just going through all their games and adding all of them to my wishlist. Heartbreaking!
People Make Games put out a documentary on some emotionally abusive studios a couple of years ago, and Annapurna was mentioned. video link The first section details some issues with Annapurna...
People Make Games put out a documentary on some emotionally abusive studios a couple of years ago, and Annapurna was mentioned. video link
The first section details some issues with Annapurna Interactive’s handling of the Ken Wong / Mountains problem.
It doesn’t seem to be related to this issue, but it’s immediately what my mind went to.
The idea of Annapurna being abusive is not a surprise to me at all, honestly. I remember a Twitter thread I found a few years back that discussed the predatory nature of most indie publishing...
The idea of Annapurna being abusive is not a surprise to me at all, honestly. I remember a Twitter thread I found a few years back that discussed the predatory nature of most indie publishing companies. Annapurna was one mentioned, in the context of how the predatory behaviors are invisible to most players: You hardly ever see the developers themselves – instead seeing Annapurna, Devolver Digital, etc, advertised – and so you don't notice when the people who actually made those games go out of business afterward.
I wonder why game studios are so consistently toxic. They can even drive their employees to suicide from sexual harassment. I'm sure plenty of non-gaming companies are as toxic, but why does it...
I wonder why game studios are so consistently toxic. They can even drive their employees to suicide from sexual harassment. I'm sure plenty of non-gaming companies are as toxic, but why does it seem like the video game industry is particularly bad?
Game dev is often seen as a "dream" job and getting such a job is seen as lucky and privileged, so lots of people will put up with shit to not lose that. Additionally, there are a lot of creative...
Game dev is often seen as a "dream" job and getting such a job is seen as lucky and privileged, so lots of people will put up with shit to not lose that.
Additionally, there are a lot of creative "this is my vision" types, in position of authority and who buy their own hype.
So is it pretty universally toxic? Or when people get placed somewhere and realize it’s terrible do they have no options for other places? I ended up at my dream job before and quickly realized it...
So is it pretty universally toxic? Or when people get placed somewhere and realize it’s terrible do they have no options for other places?
I ended up at my dream job before and quickly realized it wasn’t going to work out. And not because of any harassment, mostly it was organizational dysfunction. But I had options and left.
I'm speaking from a French perspective, who applied to various companies across Europe and eventually moved to Sweden. This context is important as things might be very different in the US or even...
I'm speaking from a French perspective, who applied to various companies across Europe and eventually moved to Sweden. This context is important as things might be very different in the US or even other parts of Europe.
It is not universally toxic, but it is very often toxic. Finding a good company is difficult, especially with schools pumping out enough students every year to fill all the available roles in the industry.
I've worked at several good companies. Some of them bankrupted, some of them enshitified as they grew. Some of the big companies have good teams and bad teams.
It feels worse than some other jobs because you care. It is also more satisfying than other jobs because you care.
And there are a lot of egos involved, and people who will use your caring to exploit you.
The combination of young, inexperienced talent who cares too much, and ruthless "I have a vision" types leads to bad situations often, but not always.
I would expect the same in, say, Hollywood. The main difference is that Hollywood is mostly unionized.
But you can see, at least in Europe, employees organizing for better conditions, so things might get better.
Two things come to mind, though I'm sure there are more. A: Video Games started as an often male dominated industry, which can often lead to toxicity in workplaces, especially if we are looking at...
Two things come to mind, though I'm sure there are more.
A: Video Games started as an often male dominated industry, which can often lead to toxicity in workplaces, especially if we are looking at large companies that have C suites with company protections.
2: Video Games often have a more direct interaction with fan bases and less separation between devs and complaints or death threats about their work than other fields. While we are seeing this with Journalism and YouTube built careers, the feedback systems for many game devs are abusive towards the people who are hired to moderate and read them.
Not particularly relevant, but this struck me as amusing: Who could possibly have foreseen that Remedy would pivot to motion pictures?!? However will they adapt those works to the movie screen?
Not particularly relevant, but this struck me as amusing:
Last month Annapurna announced a deal to partner with the Finnish gaming company Remedy Entertainment to bring the critically acclaimed Control and Alan Wake franchises to film and TV.
Who could possibly have foreseen that Remedy would pivot to motion pictures?!? However will they adapt those works to the movie screen?
I am not sure if you're being sarcastic, but assuming you aren't, note that Alan Wake was basically built to resemble a TV show, to the point it had fully live-acted TV-like mini episodes leading...
I am not sure if you're being sarcastic, but assuming you aren't, note that Alan Wake was basically built to resemble a TV show, to the point it had fully live-acted TV-like mini episodes leading into its release.
Yes, I was being sarcastic, or ironic or something. Remedy's whole schtick has been blending live action cinematics and gameplay, and kind of blurring the lines between the two. Some might say...
Yes, I was being sarcastic, or ironic or something. Remedy's whole schtick has been blending live action cinematics and gameplay, and kind of blurring the lines between the two. Some might say they've focused a bit too heavily on the cinematic angle, to the point where it sometimes impacts gameplay negatively.
Good for them, must’ve been an awful place to work at if they all agreed to resign together. I do have a question though: Checking Wikipedia, they had exactly one game in development, a licensed...
Good for them, must’ve been an awful place to work at if they all agreed to resign together. I do have a question though: Checking Wikipedia, they had exactly one game in development, a licensed Blade Runner affair. As far as I understand, Annapurna publishes games, but doesn’t make them. What kind of effect is this realistically going to have?
A publisher handles marketing and distribution. Distribution used to involve physical disk printing, but now is more about knowing the ins and outs of the various distribution platforms to...
A publisher handles marketing and distribution. Distribution used to involve physical disk printing, but now is more about knowing the ins and outs of the various distribution platforms to shepherd the original game and any subsequent patches through approval. Marketing can be print or online ads, working with influencers of various stripes, etc. Both halves of this process are half technical and half social.
With everyone leaving at once, you have lost all institutional knowledge aside from what can be picked out of the files and emails they left. Imagine looking at an email inbox previously managed by someone else. Which emails are important? Which are timely? Who is an important contact for you, and what do you do if they haven't emailed you recently? Imagine someone else's file structure (unless they were incredibly rigid in file management, it's going to be a mess.) Which files are important? How would you know that the primary document used to track an important secondary deliverable is currently named "22-26 potential release schedule (1)"?
None of that answers your question, but I hope it gives a sense of the problem. If Annapurna can staff up quickly (and everyone who could identify good game publishing staff just left,) this might be a delay of 3-6 months on all efforts? A new employee rarely saves more time than they take to train during the first three months while they're familiarizing themselves with everything. Expecting an entirely new staff to get up to speed with no one at all to explain things could range from difficult to impossible.
It's impossible to have a concrete position with so little information. Taking the information in the article as truth, it sounds like they were seeking a deal to be independent while retaining...
It's impossible to have a concrete position with so little information. Taking the information in the article as truth, it sounds like they were seeking a deal to be independent while retaining some of the features of a corporate structure. Again, based only on the article, it kinda sounds like they where driving a hard bargain.
Annapurna Interactive President Nathan Gary and his team had been negotiating with Ellison, the daughter of billionaire Larry Ellison, to spin off the video-game division as an independent entity.
"Independent entity" is doing a lot of lifting there. It could be an independent entity while still being owned by the same people, if their goal was to avoid being consolidated with the movie...
"Independent entity" is doing a lot of lifting there. It could be an independent entity while still being owned by the same people, if their goal was to avoid being consolidated with the movie department.
Wow. An entire team resigning makes me wonder what else was going on behind the scenes. I'm guessing the failed spin-off had more contentious roots than the bland professional statements suggest.
I think I read (could be speculation) in the HN thread that Annapura wanted to integrate the video game division, which is doing well financially, into their financially troubled movie division in order to prop it up. The video game guys wanted the complete opposite--to spin off as a separate entity entirely.
And a coordinated resignation likely means they are doing exactly that.
I've been part of an entire department quitting (extremely poor management hire), and the process was spread out over a few months as people lined up their next gigs. An entire division doesn't quit en masse unless they've all been promised a destination.
Deeply troubled by this as Annapurna is probably my favorite publisher. Just look at the list of what they've done since starting back in 2017 : Outer Wilds, Gone Home, and Florence are games I constantly recommend and any time I hear they're publishing a game, I'm interested simply because they're constantly looking for games that bring new experiences to the medium.
Hope they figure this out or the team moves to a new company because this a pretty big loss for people the 'video games are art' kind of crowd.
Same, I'd started playing all their stuff because it just so consistently was exactly the sort of game I was looking for. So many great games they brought to my attention. I had started just going through all their games and adding all of them to my wishlist. Heartbreaking!
People Make Games put out a documentary on some emotionally abusive studios a couple of years ago, and Annapurna was mentioned. video link
The first section details some issues with Annapurna Interactive’s handling of the Ken Wong / Mountains problem.
It doesn’t seem to be related to this issue, but it’s immediately what my mind went to.
The idea of Annapurna being abusive is not a surprise to me at all, honestly. I remember a Twitter thread I found a few years back that discussed the predatory nature of most indie publishing companies. Annapurna was one mentioned, in the context of how the predatory behaviors are invisible to most players: You hardly ever see the developers themselves – instead seeing Annapurna, Devolver Digital, etc, advertised – and so you don't notice when the people who actually made those games go out of business afterward.
I wonder why game studios are so consistently toxic. They can even drive their employees to suicide from sexual harassment. I'm sure plenty of non-gaming companies are as toxic, but why does it seem like the video game industry is particularly bad?
Game dev is often seen as a "dream" job and getting such a job is seen as lucky and privileged, so lots of people will put up with shit to not lose that.
Additionally, there are a lot of creative "this is my vision" types, in position of authority and who buy their own hype.
Source: I've been a game dev for over 30 years
So is it pretty universally toxic? Or when people get placed somewhere and realize it’s terrible do they have no options for other places?
I ended up at my dream job before and quickly realized it wasn’t going to work out. And not because of any harassment, mostly it was organizational dysfunction. But I had options and left.
I'm speaking from a French perspective, who applied to various companies across Europe and eventually moved to Sweden. This context is important as things might be very different in the US or even other parts of Europe.
It is not universally toxic, but it is very often toxic. Finding a good company is difficult, especially with schools pumping out enough students every year to fill all the available roles in the industry.
I've worked at several good companies. Some of them bankrupted, some of them enshitified as they grew. Some of the big companies have good teams and bad teams.
It feels worse than some other jobs because you care. It is also more satisfying than other jobs because you care.
And there are a lot of egos involved, and people who will use your caring to exploit you.
The combination of young, inexperienced talent who cares too much, and ruthless "I have a vision" types leads to bad situations often, but not always.
I would expect the same in, say, Hollywood. The main difference is that Hollywood is mostly unionized.
But you can see, at least in Europe, employees organizing for better conditions, so things might get better.
Two things come to mind, though I'm sure there are more.
A: Video Games started as an often male dominated industry, which can often lead to toxicity in workplaces, especially if we are looking at large companies that have C suites with company protections.
2: Video Games often have a more direct interaction with fan bases and less separation between devs and complaints or death threats about their work than other fields. While we are seeing this with Journalism and YouTube built careers, the feedback systems for many game devs are abusive towards the people who are hired to moderate and read them.
Oh interesting. So you think they may be passively absorbing the culture of their players (and when they hire players, not so passively).
Not particularly relevant, but this struck me as amusing:
Who could possibly have foreseen that Remedy would pivot to motion pictures?!? However will they adapt those works to the movie screen?
I am not sure if you're being sarcastic, but assuming you aren't, note that Alan Wake was basically built to resemble a TV show, to the point it had fully live-acted TV-like mini episodes leading into its release.
Yes, I was being sarcastic, or ironic or something. Remedy's whole schtick has been blending live action cinematics and gameplay, and kind of blurring the lines between the two. Some might say they've focused a bit too heavily on the cinematic angle, to the point where it sometimes impacts gameplay negatively.
Good for them, must’ve been an awful place to work at if they all agreed to resign together. I do have a question though: Checking Wikipedia, they had exactly one game in development, a licensed Blade Runner affair. As far as I understand, Annapurna publishes games, but doesn’t make them. What kind of effect is this realistically going to have?
A publisher handles marketing and distribution. Distribution used to involve physical disk printing, but now is more about knowing the ins and outs of the various distribution platforms to shepherd the original game and any subsequent patches through approval. Marketing can be print or online ads, working with influencers of various stripes, etc. Both halves of this process are half technical and half social.
With everyone leaving at once, you have lost all institutional knowledge aside from what can be picked out of the files and emails they left. Imagine looking at an email inbox previously managed by someone else. Which emails are important? Which are timely? Who is an important contact for you, and what do you do if they haven't emailed you recently? Imagine someone else's file structure (unless they were incredibly rigid in file management, it's going to be a mess.) Which files are important? How would you know that the primary document used to track an important secondary deliverable is currently named "22-26 potential release schedule (1)"?
None of that answers your question, but I hope it gives a sense of the problem. If Annapurna can staff up quickly (and everyone who could identify good game publishing staff just left,) this might be a delay of 3-6 months on all efforts? A new employee rarely saves more time than they take to train during the first three months while they're familiarizing themselves with everything. Expecting an entirely new staff to get up to speed with no one at all to explain things could range from difficult to impossible.
It's impossible to have a concrete position with so little information. Taking the information in the article as truth, it sounds like they were seeking a deal to be independent while retaining some of the features of a corporate structure. Again, based only on the article, it kinda sounds like they where driving a hard bargain.
"Independent entity" is doing a lot of lifting there. It could be an independent entity while still being owned by the same people, if their goal was to avoid being consolidated with the movie department.