And GOG did it all above-board, which is more than can be said for mobygames or whatever. No, something being abandonware doesn't mean it's legal to distribute it. While I don't always agree with...
And GOG did it all above-board, which is more than can be said for mobygames or whatever. No, something being abandonware doesn't mean it's legal to distribute it. While I don't always agree with what they do, their work as archivists is extremely important for an art form that has, historically, been extremely dependent upon the physical medium to deliver the message.
Classic game compatibility requires a lot of highly specific expertise--not just software development but also deep knowledge of how old APIs, which may not have documentation available these days, actually worked. That may cross over into reverse-engineering, which is a separate but also highly specialized branch of knowledge.
edit: You basically said what I said in my comment in your edit. ;)
The big thing that bothers me is how they responded to the criticism that came about regarding how they handle crunch and worker morale. They didn't really address it satisfactorily in my mind,...
The big thing that bothers me is how they responded to the criticism that came about regarding how they handle crunch and worker morale. They didn't really address it satisfactorily in my mind, essentially saying "it's what everyone does so it's okay". That doesn't make it okay, it institutionalizes it.
The way it used to work was you didn't change the games at all. You change your OS. DOSBOX is probably the best known - and I believe was in large part responsible for the container/devops...
The way it used to work was you didn't change the games at all. You change your OS. DOSBOX is probably the best known - and I believe was in large part responsible for the container/devops revolution we're seeing today - yes, games did that.
You can run a Commodore64 container on a Windows 10 PC, all the way up to Windows 8 (and even 10 in 10).
The issue isn't going to be compatibility, which is largely a solved problem. The issue is going to be the servers that many modern games need to hit to work. When Ubisoft eventually goes under (it happens to all companies) and their servers get shut down, will modern Far Cry games work?
Big old [citation needed] for that. Dosbox is emulation, not a container technology. If anything was responsible for the container revolution we're seeing today, it's... other container...
large part responsible for the container / devops revolution we're seeing today
Big old [citation needed] for that. Dosbox is emulation, not a container technology. If anything was responsible for the container revolution we're seeing today, it's... other container technologies, like FreeBSD jails (the one that started it all in 2000), Solaris Zones, and of course the new kid that reinvents it all because Linux, Docker.
You can run a Commodore64 container on a Windows 10 PC
This suggests that you don't know what the word container actually means. This isn't a container. A container is a virtualized operating system, not emulated hardware. Check the Wikipedia page for more information. Now, if you change your wording to emulation rather than containers, I'm willing to be more openminded, but still not give credit to games for that. The tech world has long used emulation (and later virtualization) completely independent of the games industry, and I was doing it for work long before it became a thing for games.
The lines between emulation, containers, and virtualisation in general is entirely arbitrary as to where you draw the line on the stack. Consider the interface between an application and...
The lines between emulation, containers, and virtualisation in general is entirely arbitrary as to where you draw the line on the stack. Consider the interface between an application and 'everything below the application' - it's an abstraction. Like this C64 container.
I have only blog evidence I've read over the years (such as this) for one driving the other besides the way it's an extension of the method.
It's not arbitrary at all; there are specific definitions. On that very page for the C64 "container" you link, it says that it's an emulator. It emulates the hardware of the C64. Granted, it does...
It's not arbitrary at all; there are specific definitions. On that very page for the C64 "container" you link, it says that it's an emulator. It emulates the hardware of the C64. Granted, it does that in a container, but putting an emulator in a container doesn't suddenly make it not an emulator. The example screenshot on that article is even a screenshot of Dosbox. Dosbox is not a container.
Furthermore, if you look at the article I linked in my first comment, it describes the specifics of what a container is (namely that it doesn't replicate the hardware, just the operating system). This is how the terms are used in the industry I've worked in for more than ten years.
How can video games be such a profitable and growing industry and so many studios are on the wane? I get workers getting worked, but the houses behind Witcher and Overwatch going through a rough...
How can video games be such a profitable and growing industry and so many studios are on the wane? I get workers getting worked, but the houses behind Witcher and Overwatch going through a rough patch is kinda disconcerting.
Activision Blizzard made 1.5 billion USD net revenue in Q3 2018. CD Projekt made a net revenue of about $4 million USD in the same period, which is pretty good for a studio that hadn't released a...
Activision Blizzard made 1.5 billion USD net revenue in Q3 2018. CD Projekt made a net revenue of about $4 million USD in the same period, which is pretty good for a studio that hadn't released a game in two years. (Gwent was released in Q4, although I believe it had purchasables in beta.)
All these companies are making very healthy profits. Actiblizzion could have retained everybody they laid off, given everybody in the company a raise, and still made a profit. And it sounds like, although CD Projekt themselves are probably fine, GOG might not be doing so well. (Alexis Kennedy's sales numbers would seem to back this up, if you read his Weather Factory report.) It's possible that CD Projekt is recognizing that they missed their window of relevance to be a serious Steam competitor, now that Epic and Discord are also getting into it. (And Telltale really and truly just ran themselves into the ground, by all accounts.)
Talking specifically about GOG, not CDPR as a whole, the article says the layoffs were about 10% - meaning that it previously stood at roughly 120 people. Maybe I'm just too used to really tiny...
Talking specifically about GOG, not CDPR as a whole, the article says the layoffs were about 10% - meaning that it previously stood at roughly 120 people. Maybe I'm just too used to really tiny organisations, but that strikes me as a lot to run what is essentially a storefront. Looking at the breakdown of 20 new roles on their hiring page, that alone feels like enough to run the company as long as you throw a few customer support people into the mix.
Even if you double my estimate and add the same again in customer facing roles, that's roughly half the size that they actually are as a company. Maybe I'm dramatically missing something - it certainly wouldn't be the first time - but it's at least possible that their problem is overextension: they've hired for "take over the world" scale and that means they can't sustain themselves even on "doing a damn good job" revenue.
I don't quite think you understand everything that goes into what GOG does. Take a look at the other comments in this thread, particularly my reply to orangse (and their edit to their original...
what is essentially a storefront
I don't quite think you understand everything that goes into what GOG does. Take a look at the other comments in this thread, particularly my reply to orangse (and their edit to their original comment at the top level), to get an idea of what else is involved in doing what GOG does for archiving.
edit: Whoops, it really is orangse, not oranges. Thanks. ;)
Oh wow, I've just watched the video that @orangse linked and you're absolutely right, I was dramatically underestimating what they do. I'd read the thread so far and assigned a couple of people in...
Oh wow, I've just watched the video that @orangse linked and you're absolutely right, I was dramatically underestimating what they do. I'd read the thread so far and assigned a couple of people in my mental model to licensing questions, and a couple to wrapping things in the right VM for distribution, but actually hearing them speak about it sounds like a whole different level.
As a user and a customer I'd taken it for (more or less) a collection of games that were already packaged on a shelf somewhere, but it looks to be a full restoration & archival effort, not to mention something of a labour of love.
Maybe I'm dramatically missing something - it certainly wouldn't be the first time
Fair - storefront plus a multiplayer API, then. I'm not suggesting either is a trivial thing to write and run, far from it, but a team of even five good devs putting in 8 hours every single...
Fair - storefront plus a multiplayer API, then. I'm not suggesting either is a trivial thing to write and run, far from it, but a team of even five good devs putting in 8 hours every single working day can create and maintain a hell of a lot of quality software; the numbers I was ballparking at half their current size still gives plenty of room for four full teams of five developers along with all the rest. Given what I've seen companies achieve with <10 employees in total, it doesn't strike me as a hardship.
The cynical side of me says that its simple greed. A lot of those developers like EA and Activision participated in business practices that many gamers vehemently disagree with. As gamers became...
The cynical side of me says that its simple greed. A lot of those developers like EA and Activision participated in business practices that many gamers vehemently disagree with. As gamers became more and more likely to "vote with their wallets" and express their displeasure with certain business practices by refusing to buy games, the developers suddenly had to find a new way to make their shareholders happy. It's a long standing practice in any business to cut your workforce when profits aren't what you were hoping for and it feels like that's what happened.
Coincidentally (?), I just got an email from GOG describing some changes in their user agreement and privacy policy: Following the link you see that GOG say they're doing it purely as a...
Coincidentally (?), I just got an email from GOG describing some changes in their user agreement and privacy policy:
We want to let you know about few changes: (1) We’re adding a new functionality - GOG Direct to Account that will enable partnered platforms to activate, directly on your GOG.COM account, content purchased via these selected third party platforms; (2) we’re concluding the Fair Price Package program that some users were eligible for. For more details please see here. (3) We’ve also refreshed our Voluntary Refund Policy now offering refunds for GOG Wallet funds.
Following the link you see that GOG say they're doing it purely as a cost-saving measure. Hmm.
And GOG did it all above-board, which is more than can be said for mobygames or whatever. No, something being abandonware doesn't mean it's legal to distribute it. While I don't always agree with what they do, their work as archivists is extremely important for an art form that has, historically, been extremely dependent upon the physical medium to deliver the message.
Classic game compatibility requires a lot of highly specific expertise--not just software development but also deep knowledge of how old APIs, which may not have documentation available these days, actually worked. That may cross over into reverse-engineering, which is a separate but also highly specialized branch of knowledge.
edit: You basically said what I said in my comment in your edit. ;)
What do you disagree with, and why?
The big thing that bothers me is how they responded to the criticism that came about regarding how they handle crunch and worker morale. They didn't really address it satisfactorily in my mind, essentially saying "it's what everyone does so it's okay". That doesn't make it okay, it institutionalizes it.
The way it used to work was you didn't change the games at all. You change your OS. DOSBOX is probably the best known - and I believe was in large part responsible for the container/devops revolution we're seeing today - yes, games did that.
You can run a Commodore64 container on a Windows 10 PC, all the way up to Windows 8 (and even 10 in 10).
The issue isn't going to be compatibility, which is largely a solved problem. The issue is going to be the servers that many modern games need to hit to work. When Ubisoft eventually goes under (it happens to all companies) and their servers get shut down, will modern Far Cry games work?
Big old [citation needed] for that. Dosbox is emulation, not a container technology. If anything was responsible for the container revolution we're seeing today, it's... other container technologies, like FreeBSD jails (the one that started it all in 2000), Solaris Zones, and of course the new kid that reinvents it all because Linux, Docker.
This suggests that you don't know what the word container actually means. This isn't a container. A container is a virtualized operating system, not emulated hardware. Check the Wikipedia page for more information. Now, if you change your wording to emulation rather than containers, I'm willing to be more openminded, but still not give credit to games for that. The tech world has long used emulation (and later virtualization) completely independent of the games industry, and I was doing it for work long before it became a thing for games.
The lines between emulation, containers, and virtualisation in general is entirely arbitrary as to where you draw the line on the stack. Consider the interface between an application and 'everything below the application' - it's an abstraction. Like this C64 container.
I have only blog evidence I've read over the years (such as this) for one driving the other besides the way it's an extension of the method.
It's not arbitrary at all; there are specific definitions. On that very page for the C64 "container" you link, it says that it's an emulator. It emulates the hardware of the C64. Granted, it does that in a container, but putting an emulator in a container doesn't suddenly make it not an emulator. The example screenshot on that article is even a screenshot of Dosbox. Dosbox is not a container.
Furthermore, if you look at the article I linked in my first comment, it describes the specifics of what a container is (namely that it doesn't replicate the hardware, just the operating system). This is how the terms are used in the industry I've worked in for more than ten years.
This is going to suck when they go offline and you can't download anything you've bought from them before
Their games are entirely DRM-free, so now is the best time to start making your archives.
How can video games be such a profitable and growing industry and so many studios are on the wane? I get workers getting worked, but the houses behind Witcher and Overwatch going through a rough patch is kinda disconcerting.
Activision Blizzard made 1.5 billion USD net revenue in Q3 2018. CD Projekt made a net revenue of about $4 million USD in the same period, which is pretty good for a studio that hadn't released a game in two years. (Gwent was released in Q4, although I believe it had purchasables in beta.)
All these companies are making very healthy profits. Actiblizzion could have retained everybody they laid off, given everybody in the company a raise, and still made a profit. And it sounds like, although CD Projekt themselves are probably fine, GOG might not be doing so well. (Alexis Kennedy's sales numbers would seem to back this up, if you read his Weather Factory report.) It's possible that CD Projekt is recognizing that they missed their window of relevance to be a serious Steam competitor, now that Epic and Discord are also getting into it. (And Telltale really and truly just ran themselves into the ground, by all accounts.)
Talking specifically about GOG, not CDPR as a whole, the article says the layoffs were about 10% - meaning that it previously stood at roughly 120 people. Maybe I'm just too used to really tiny organisations, but that strikes me as a lot to run what is essentially a storefront. Looking at the breakdown of 20 new roles on their hiring page, that alone feels like enough to run the company as long as you throw a few customer support people into the mix.
Even if you double my estimate and add the same again in customer facing roles, that's roughly half the size that they actually are as a company. Maybe I'm dramatically missing something - it certainly wouldn't be the first time - but it's at least possible that their problem is overextension: they've hired for "take over the world" scale and that means they can't sustain themselves even on "doing a damn good job" revenue.
I don't quite think you understand everything that goes into what GOG does. Take a look at the other comments in this thread, particularly my reply to orangse (and their edit to their original comment at the top level), to get an idea of what else is involved in doing what GOG does for archiving.
edit: Whoops, it really is orangse, not oranges. Thanks. ;)
Oh wow, I've just watched the video that @orangse linked and you're absolutely right, I was dramatically underestimating what they do. I'd read the thread so far and assigned a couple of people in my mental model to licensing questions, and a couple to wrapping things in the right VM for distribution, but actually hearing them speak about it sounds like a whole different level.
As a user and a customer I'd taken it for (more or less) a collection of games that were already packaged on a shelf somewhere, but it looks to be a full restoration & archival effort, not to mention something of a labour of love.
Evidently I was indeed missing something!
What about GOG Galaxy?
Fair - storefront plus a multiplayer API, then. I'm not suggesting either is a trivial thing to write and run, far from it, but a team of even five good devs putting in 8 hours every single working day can create and maintain a hell of a lot of quality software; the numbers I was ballparking at half their current size still gives plenty of room for four full teams of five developers along with all the rest. Given what I've seen companies achieve with <10 employees in total, it doesn't strike me as a hardship.
The cynical side of me says that its simple greed. A lot of those developers like EA and Activision participated in business practices that many gamers vehemently disagree with. As gamers became more and more likely to "vote with their wallets" and express their displeasure with certain business practices by refusing to buy games, the developers suddenly had to find a new way to make their shareholders happy. It's a long standing practice in any business to cut your workforce when profits aren't what you were hoping for and it feels like that's what happened.
Coincidentally (?), I just got an email from GOG describing some changes in their user agreement and privacy policy:
Following the link you see that GOG say they're doing it purely as a cost-saving measure. Hmm.
That would be CDPR (game devs), not CDP (runs GOG).