Oh, this resonates. I've been strategizing how to quit this behavior, and this aspect/element of the Internet - the commercialized, clicks-for-rewards part of it - without abandoning the useful...
Oh, this resonates.
I've been strategizing how to quit this behavior, and this aspect/element of the Internet - the commercialized, clicks-for-rewards part of it - without abandoning the useful (online community, global connectivity, information sharing) aspects.
But, as allegory, how does a recovering gambling addict continue to spend his nights in a Vegas casino, just to watch the news and read a book?
If you were to identify one thing to avoid like the plague, I would say it would be infinite scroll. As far as I understand, dopamine is released in response to the pursuit of pleasure not the...
If you were to identify one thing to avoid like the plague, I would say it would be infinite scroll. As far as I understand, dopamine is released in response to the pursuit of pleasure not the stimulus itself (except the first exposure), in order to cause habit formation. So, endlessly scrolling in pursuit of something interesting is basically a perfect recipe for addiction.
I don't think that it has to be algorithmically curated content. Example: Sites like 4chan, a firehose of essentially infinite random non-curated images and people posting - the search for the...
I don't think that it has to be algorithmically curated content.
Example: Sites like 4chan, a firehose of essentially infinite random non-curated images and people posting - the search for the diamonds in the pile of excrement is still a recipe for addiction.
I would say infinite scroll in general. Even a social media feed with a straightforward algorithm not optimized for engagement (ex. posts listed in descending order based on a basic...
I would say infinite scroll in general. Even a social media feed with a straightforward algorithm not optimized for engagement (ex. posts listed in descending order based on a basic [upvote/downvote minus time] score), that has large amounts of content with infinite scroll would be well set-up for addiction. Adding in other bells and whistles could of course make it worse.
This starts with basically pedantry, but it might be useful in framing the issue, and I think ends up saying something more meaningful. In this analogy to gambling addiction, the internet is the...
This starts with basically pedantry, but it might be useful in framing the issue, and I think ends up saying something more meaningful.
In this analogy to gambling addiction, the internet is the currency, not the casino. Or it's the concept of society, I guess. The casino is the web, or the websites, depending on exactly how we want to define it. Nobody's addiction to scrolling is triggered by a phonecall routed via the internet, email is almost never thrillseeking.
Obviously, they meant the web. However, that conflation is part of the problem: we expect those benefits of connectivity to be gated behind social media and that information to be candy-coated.
But this is getting silly, people get sucked into rabbitholes on wikis all the time, and wiki's across the board target the UX of a well-indexed encyclopedia. People will spend all day chatting on IRC, where nothing happens except people talking. Deimos did his best when designing Tildes to minimize the addictive elements of reddit, and a few years ago voiced some grief considering that ideal failed, based on usage stats.
The skinnerbox of it all is not just in design, nor in ease, hell, it isn't the internet: it's socialization and learning. We are addicted to knowledge and humanity. Also, upvotes and ❤️ and THE SCROLL and that satisfying way the pull-to-refresh symbol fades in, but BBSes and webforums pre-social media were full of habitual users.
There are two ways of taking this. Either that the access to practically-unending sources of information and human validation are incompatible with humanity, ironically, or that our lives away from the web are not sufficient. I'm not exactly happy with the former conclusion if it bears out to be the case, but it isn't absurd. Just like how noveltyseeking and pleasureseeking drive more chemical addictions, infoseeking and societyseeking may be intrinsic parts of our existence which lead to organism collapse in certain environments.
However, speaking for myself, modern society and ways of living are not offering much intrinsic value as an alternative to the infodrip. If "real life" is mostly perceived as obligations and rules and hazards, an uninhibited and carefree jaunt through fantasy should be anticipated.
I think the addictive aspects are too powerful. Even I slip into short-form video clicking unintentionally until I stop myself. I think the best way to set up as many limitations as possible: for...
I think the addictive aspects are too powerful. Even I slip into short-form video clicking unintentionally until I stop myself. I think the best way to set up as many limitations as possible: for example, turn of all flashy animations from your phone, install add-ons that remove shorts and thumbnails, and create as much friction as possible. Only browse with intention, not as a way to veg out.
To philosophize the addiction mechanism behind randomized reward and reward schedules, I suppose it might be tied to the fact that you can't compartmentalize a random reward. You can't estimate...
To philosophize the addiction mechanism behind randomized reward and reward schedules, I suppose it might be tied to the fact that you can't compartmentalize a random reward. You can't estimate what the reward will be, weigh it against the cost, and consider at what point you'll reach diminishing returns such that it would be a better use of your time to do something else. You're essentially forced to give up all other mental planning, if you're convinced that you might get something really good by engaging in this activity.
This is the first time I make the connection between the concept of the Skinner box and the kind of childhood trauma you get from growing up with an angry drunk (or other parent that randomly gets...
This is the first time I make the connection between the concept of the Skinner box and the kind of childhood trauma you get from growing up with an angry drunk (or other parent that randomly gets aggressive/violent) or similar.
Oh, this resonates.
I've been strategizing how to quit this behavior, and this aspect/element of the Internet - the commercialized, clicks-for-rewards part of it - without abandoning the useful (online community, global connectivity, information sharing) aspects.
But, as allegory, how does a recovering gambling addict continue to spend his nights in a Vegas casino, just to watch the news and read a book?
If you were to identify one thing to avoid like the plague, I would say it would be infinite scroll. As far as I understand, dopamine is released in response to the pursuit of pleasure not the stimulus itself (except the first exposure), in order to cause habit formation. So, endlessly scrolling in pursuit of something interesting is basically a perfect recipe for addiction.
I would add to that: infinite scroll of algorithmically curated content.
I know you meant the same thing, but it is worth pointing to that aspect.
I don't think that it has to be algorithmically curated content.
Example: Sites like 4chan, a firehose of essentially infinite random non-curated images and people posting - the search for the diamonds in the pile of excrement is still a recipe for addiction.
I would say infinite scroll in general. Even a social media feed with a straightforward algorithm not optimized for engagement (ex. posts listed in descending order based on a basic [upvote/downvote minus time] score), that has large amounts of content with infinite scroll would be well set-up for addiction. Adding in other bells and whistles could of course make it worse.
This starts with basically pedantry, but it might be useful in framing the issue, and I think ends up saying something more meaningful.
In this analogy to gambling addiction, the internet is the currency, not the casino. Or it's the concept of society, I guess. The casino is the web, or the websites, depending on exactly how we want to define it. Nobody's addiction to scrolling is triggered by a phonecall routed via the internet, email is almost never thrillseeking.
Obviously, they meant the web. However, that conflation is part of the problem: we expect those benefits of connectivity to be gated behind social media and that information to be candy-coated.
But this is getting silly, people get sucked into rabbitholes on wikis all the time, and wiki's across the board target the UX of a well-indexed encyclopedia. People will spend all day chatting on IRC, where nothing happens except people talking. Deimos did his best when designing Tildes to minimize the addictive elements of reddit, and a few years ago voiced some grief considering that ideal failed, based on usage stats.
The skinnerbox of it all is not just in design, nor in ease, hell, it isn't the internet: it's socialization and learning. We are addicted to knowledge and humanity. Also, upvotes and ❤️ and THE SCROLL and that satisfying way the pull-to-refresh symbol fades in, but BBSes and webforums pre-social media were full of habitual users.
There are two ways of taking this. Either that the access to practically-unending sources of information and human validation are incompatible with humanity, ironically, or that our lives away from the web are not sufficient. I'm not exactly happy with the former conclusion if it bears out to be the case, but it isn't absurd. Just like how noveltyseeking and pleasureseeking drive more chemical addictions, infoseeking and societyseeking may be intrinsic parts of our existence which lead to organism collapse in certain environments.
However, speaking for myself, modern society and ways of living are not offering much intrinsic value as an alternative to the infodrip. If "real life" is mostly perceived as obligations and rules and hazards, an uninhibited and carefree jaunt through fantasy should be anticipated.
I think the addictive aspects are too powerful. Even I slip into short-form video clicking unintentionally until I stop myself. I think the best way to set up as many limitations as possible: for example, turn of all flashy animations from your phone, install add-ons that remove shorts and thumbnails, and create as much friction as possible. Only browse with intention, not as a way to veg out.
To philosophize the addiction mechanism behind randomized reward and reward schedules, I suppose it might be tied to the fact that you can't compartmentalize a random reward. You can't estimate what the reward will be, weigh it against the cost, and consider at what point you'll reach diminishing returns such that it would be a better use of your time to do something else. You're essentially forced to give up all other mental planning, if you're convinced that you might get something really good by engaging in this activity.
This is the first time I make the connection between the concept of the Skinner box and the kind of childhood trauma you get from growing up with an angry drunk (or other parent that randomly gets aggressive/violent) or similar.
It's sickening.