22 votes

California's push for mandatory ethnic studies classes runs into the Israel-Palestine conflict in designing a curriculum

22 comments

  1. boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    If I were a teacher, I would not want to teach the Israeli Palestinian conflict in that class. I can't imagine any principal/school administrator wanting to deal with the inevitable backlash from...
    • Exemplary

    If I were a teacher, I would not want to teach the Israeli Palestinian conflict in that class. I can't imagine any principal/school administrator wanting to deal with the inevitable backlash from all sides.

    I'm currently, very slowly working my way through the book Enemies and Neighbors by Ian Black. It's long, and he makes a real effort to describe events from the perspective of both sides.

    It's a very difficult conflict to reduce to one perspective. There is a lot of historical injustice and outright war and terrible acts. The Palestinians are stuck. The jews expelled from Middle Eastern countries in response to the creation of Israel have no other place to go. Likewise the many migrants from Russia/USSR have no guarantee of being welcomed back. European descended jews might have options, but it's case by case. There are several generations of native Israelis now.

    I have fantasies about what I wish might have happened instead, but Israel was founded and exists. I do however condemn the expansionism from within Israel. There is no hope for peace while Israel continues to slowly absorb the West Bank.

    34 votes
  2. [21]
    Interesting
    Link
    As a first note: I would like to avoid discussing the nitty gritty of the most modern part of the conflict itself here -- that's why I posted this outside of ~news and the megathread there. This...

    As a first note: I would like to avoid discussing the nitty gritty of the most modern part of the conflict itself here -- that's why I posted this outside of ~news and the megathread there. This article does not particularly focus on the modern part of the conflict, which is also why I edited the title.

    I thought this was a really well done article -- it did a great job summarizing the complaints on both sides, while being clear that this is not quite the same as most of the culture-war opposition to teaching controversial topics. I'll present my own thoughts below a few paragraphs pulled out for anyone who wants a 'teaser' before jumping in to the full article (which is an unlocked link)

    But even in a liberal state like California, scholars, parents and educators have found themselves at odds over how to adapt the college-level academic discipline for high school students, especially because of its strong views on race and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    While the name “ethnic studies” might bring to mind a broad exploration of how ethnicity and race shape the human experience, the discipline, as taught in universities, is narrower — and more ideological.

    Ethnic studies focuses on four groups: Black Americans, Latinos, Native Americans and Asian Americans. It aims to critique various forms of oppression and spur students to take action, often drawing analogies across disparate expanses of time and geography. The Palestinian experience of displacement is central to that exercise, and has been compared by some scholars to the Native American experience.

    For early scholars and students of ethnic studies, pro-Palestinian activism was also crucial, said Keith Feldman, chair of comparative ethnic studies at the University of California, Berkeley. Israel had recently captured Gaza and the West Bank, after defeating Egypt, Jordan and Syria in the Arab-Israeli War of 1967.

    And some ethnic studies scholars have argued that the 1948 founding of Israel, in the immediate wake of the Holocaust, was part of the same general pattern of settler colonialism that brought white Europeans to the Americas and led to the displacement and genocide of Native Americans.

    Those frameworks are “central to the ethnic studies approach,” said Dylan Rodriguez, an ethnic studies scholar at the University of California, Riverside.

    Ethnic studies is not “a descriptive curriculum that speaks to various ethnic and racial groups’ experiences,” Professor Rodriguez said. “That is a bland form of multiculturalism.”

    Instead, the discipline “is a critical analysis of the way power works in societies,” he said.

    For those reasons, several ethnic studies scholars said in interviews, the Palestinian cause should be included in high school classes. It was important, they said, to stand in solidarity with Palestinian American students.

    For critics, ethnic studies frameworks — such as categorizing Israeli Jews as European settlers — flatten the Jewish experience in ways that are inaccurate and, some argue, antisemitic.

    About half of Israeli Jews identify as Mizrahi, meaning they have lived for hundreds or even thousands of years in the Middle East. And some Jews have always lived on the land that is now Israel, before 1948, among a Palestinian Arab majority.

    There is a broad range of views in the Jewish community as to whether and when critique of Israel veers into antisemitism. Some draw a line at suggesting that Israel does not have the right to exist as a Jewish state.

    “It’s not appropriate to teach students that Jews are colonizers and have engaged in, quote, ‘land-grabbing,’” said James Pasch, senior director for national litigation at the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish group. “That course content will spread antisemitism throughout our high schools.”

    It is genuinely difficult to teach these sort of topics well in a curriculum. It's quite easy to teach a single perspective in summary (the rest of the article goes into some of the early curriculum material that Jewish groups have objected to).

    Honestly, the only way I could see to do this right would be to provide a wide array of primarily primary source documents and have students come to their own conclusions; the problem when doing that is, it takes a lot of time, and it means only a very limited number of topics could be covered, and that doesn't seem to be the goal of California's Ethnic Studies courses.

    So, what are your thoughts? Is it possible to teach such a difficult topic in grade school in a fair and balanced way? Should it be avoided? Encouraged? Required? The article makes the claim that the Ethnic Studies as an academic field does not merely study ethnicity's effect on the human experience, but does so from an ideological understanding of race and definition of whiteness. Do you agree or disagree that that is the case? If you agree, is it possible or valuable for the field to exist (or be taught) without that prior definition?

    14 votes
    1. [20]
      Soggy
      Link Parent
      It is appropriate to teach students that Israel is a land-grabbing colonial state, and ignore the predictable "anti-Israel is antisemitic" crowd because you can't please everyone and teaching the...

      It is appropriate to teach students that Israel is a land-grabbing colonial state, and ignore the predictable "anti-Israel is antisemitic" crowd because you can't please everyone and teaching the truth is often going to make someone uncomfortable. Comparisons to Native American displacement and genocide feel appropriate.

      12 votes
      1. [19]
        Interesting
        Link Parent
        What do you think of the definition of when anti-zionism is antisemitism mentioned in the article? Do you think a required course should teach that an existing ally of the United States should...

        What do you think of the definition of when anti-zionism is antisemitism mentioned in the article?

        There is a broad range of views in the Jewish community as to whether and when critique of Israel veers into antisemitism. Some draw a line at suggesting that Israel does not have the right to exist as a Jewish state.

        Do you think a required course should teach that an existing ally of the United States should cease to exist?

        7 votes
        1. [11]
          boxer_dogs_dance
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Here is an essay from a pro Palestinian author arguing that prominent representatives of the Palesitinian rights movement in the US are making a huge mistake because their public facing content...

          Here is an essay from a pro Palestinian author arguing that prominent representatives of the Palesitinian rights movement in the US are making a huge mistake because their public facing content refers to the US/North America as Turtle Island and seems to suggest it should all be given back to native americans, disregarding the hundreds of years of history and millions of inhabitants. If ethnic studies is explicitly anti colonialist, where does it set the boundary re redressing past wrongs?

          Guest opinion column from the writer Zaid Jilani argues that extremist left rhetoric undercuts broad support for Palestinian human rights.

          @Soggy

          6 votes
          1. [2]
            Interesting
            Link Parent
            Since you actually did want a response from me, I read through the article, and while I likely disagree with many of the author's other opinions, our approach towards debate and convincing other...

            Since you actually did want a response from me, I read through the article, and while I likely disagree with many of the author's other opinions, our approach towards debate and convincing other people is very similar

            I don't know the answer to the question you posed directly, but I think you are right that it is one of the questions at the core of the Israel/Palestine conflict. Obviously, at some point, we decide that a wrong is no longer worth chasing after -- you don't often see people advocating for Australia's ethnic British population to be expelled, nor (per your article) many people who believe the entire United States should be turned over to the remains of its native population.

            I could say more, but this thread is more intended to discuss the requirements of an ethnic studies course than the details of the conflict itself.

            I guess my ideal here is if they can't find a way to teach it in the allotted scope in a way that makes everyone happy (or at least similarly angry), then the conflict is too new and painful to be studied before college, where students have more flexibility in their courses, and where they have chosen the school they attend.

            7 votes
          2. Soggy
            Link Parent
            Not a fan, in short because I do "oppose everything that your average American believes in." (Not everything because it's a hyperbolic statement, but I could fairly be described as a radical and...

            Not a fan, in short because I do "oppose everything that your average American believes in." (Not everything because it's a hyperbolic statement, but I could fairly be described as a radical and an extremist in the current political climate)

          3. [5]
            DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            ...Turtle Island is not particularly unusual from people speaking against colonialism. Land Back movements don't actually propose displacing 350 million people. But that requires nuance and not...

            ...Turtle Island is not particularly unusual from people speaking against colonialism. Land Back movements don't actually propose displacing 350 million people. But that requires nuance and not just reaction. I'd rather they be consistent.

            3 votes
            1. [4]
              boxer_dogs_dance
              Link Parent
              Can you say more? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by be consistent, or precisely who 'they' refers to. And the argument of the author is that these activists are missing an opportunity to...

              Can you say more? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by be consistent, or precisely who 'they' refers to.

              And the argument of the author is that these activists are missing an opportunity to appeal to people who have never heard of Turtle Island and are never going to be especially political, but are sympathetic to Palestinians in light of the current publicized suffering.

              4 votes
              1. [3]
                DefinitelyNotAFae
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                I get what the author means, but personally I prefer the consistency of deliberately using anti-colonialist language. That's the point of saying Turtle Island. My hope would be people would learn...

                I get what the author means, but personally I prefer the consistency of deliberately using anti-colonialist language. That's the point of saying Turtle Island. My hope would be people would learn about Turtle Island rather than turning away.

                How important is Palestinian suffering to you that you quit caring? How important is anti-racism work if someone not being nice to you once made you stop engaging? How important is stopping homophobia if flamboyant queer people are a turn off?

                I really don't think it's a marketing issue.

                3 votes
                1. [2]
                  boxer_dogs_dance
                  Link Parent
                  I guess the question is whether grabbing a large section of population to organize against Palestinian suffering now is more important than the larger educational project. For me, strongly...

                  I guess the question is whether grabbing a large section of population to organize against Palestinian suffering now is more important than the larger educational project.

                  For me, strongly influenced by Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions and the idea of paradigm shifts, I expect that younger people than me will decide about the use of Turtle Island going forward. But the current war is an emergency that calls for all hands on deck, regardless of whether they care about anti colonialism in general.

                  Thanks for clarifying.

                  3 votes
                  1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                    Link Parent
                    I understand and I've seen tons of other people educating and advocating about Palestinian suffering without mentioning Turtle Island. This is literally one of the least offensive sorts of thing I...

                    I understand and I've seen tons of other people educating and advocating about Palestinian suffering without mentioning Turtle Island. This is literally one of the least offensive sorts of thing I think someone could find to be upset about, especially as I wouldn't be surprised if it was older website copy anyway.

                    If people will be turned off by a mention of Turtle Island on a website they'll be turned off by boycotting Starbucks or protestors blocking traffic. I just don't have a lot of sympathy for the tone policing.

                    3 votes
          4. [2]
            Interesting
            Link Parent
            Did you intend to reply to @Soggy instead of me?

            Did you intend to reply to @Soggy instead of me?

            1. boxer_dogs_dance
              Link Parent
              That would have been a good idea also. Pinging them now.

              That would have been a good idea also. Pinging them now.

        2. [3]
          rosco
          Link Parent
          That's a pretty big jump from... I don't think critiquing Israel as a land grabbing colonial state is saying "it should cease to exist" and I'm always frustrated when it gets taken that way. We...

          Do you think a required course should teach that an existing ally of the United States should cease to exist?

          That's a pretty big jump from...

          It is appropriate to teach students that Israel is a land-grabbing colonial state...

          I don't think critiquing Israel as a land grabbing colonial state is saying "it should cease to exist" and I'm always frustrated when it gets taken that way. We talk critically about the US, France, and plenty of other problematic colonial powers. Why is that the knee jerk reaction when it is Israel. I would doubt anyone on here wants it "cease to exist" but we'd all love for them to stop killing civilians and violently annexing land.

          4 votes
          1. [2]
            Interesting
            Link Parent
            I agree that it was a jump, but it resulted from a response to the adage "Antizionism isn't antisemitism", which I challenged by using the definition that Jewish groups are often using when they...

            I agree that it was a jump, but it resulted from a response to the adage "Antizionism isn't antisemitism", which I challenged by using the definition that Jewish groups are often using when they protest statements.

            I agree with you that it is likely not the case here for most people, but unfortunately, many people on the wider internet do actually call for for Israel to cease to exist as a Jewish nation state. I suspect that's the case a minority people I have spoken to here as well. I'll try to be better here about not jumping to that conclusion here though.

            For what it's worth -- I am also in full agreement that settlements have got to stop. The worst of them need to be bulldozed, and the few that are close to the border and politically infeasible to bulldoze need to be land swapped fairly (unfortunately, a Palestinian state in the WB and Gaza with a Jewish minority, which would be the best and simplest solution, just like Israel has an Arab minority, is... unlikely, given the slaughter and hatred).

            That said, off topic! What did you think of the article? Do you think it's worthwhile to persue an ethnic studies course that is politically feasible even if it strays from the orthodoxy of the academics for the field? Or is Ethnic studies in high school a bad idea?

            1 vote
            1. rosco
              Link Parent
              I appreciate it. I want to call out that one of things that makes tildes special is that there is an assumption of good faith discussion. So when folks say things like "Antizionism isn't...

              I appreciate it. I want to call out that one of things that makes tildes special is that there is an assumption of good faith discussion. So when folks say things like "Antizionism isn't antisemitism", try to take it at face value if you can. Making such extreme jumps make it difficult to have a discussion in good faith, and make me hesitant to think you'll take my perspective into account and not just negate the things I say. I also believe antizionism isn't antisemitism: not that Israel shouldn't exist, but that their expansionary policies need to stop. I think for many of us modern day Zionism is expansion, but without a bit of grace in the discussion that difference might be missed. From Wikipedia: "Zionism became an ideology that supports the development and protection of the State of Israel as a Jewish state.... Proponents of Zionism do not necessarily reject the characterization of Zionism as settler-colonial or exceptionalist."

              As for the article, I'm not a big fan of the framing. Many of the curriculums we end up with domestically are a reflection of our foreign diplomacy and the US's position in geopolitics. When I was grew up and took US history in high school we dove pretty deep into the Jewish diaspora and but largely ignored the arab diaspora. In hindsight it makes sense with US foreign policy. That fell in line with our discussion on Central and South America, where US incursion, coops, and general fuckery were also largely ignored. I came out of highschool with a very slanted perspective on Israel and the middle east in general: Israel is the only democracy in the region and has been unjustifiably and unendingly attacked by its neighbors. Not unlike my understanding of Nicaragua, The Dominican Republic, or Chile.

              I like the concept of Liberated Ethnic Studies, but I really disliked how this article framed as activism. The application of "activism" is often used as a way of discrediting valid critiques, seen prominently with discussions (or lack of discussion) of slavery in history curriculums in Florida and Texas. This feels no different. From my own education I'd say there is already bias, there will continue to be bias, and it's often tilted in favor of those who hold political sway or towards supporting our foreign policy goals. Looking at our current and extended funding for Israel, particularly for this current invasion, I trust that even in a curriculum that takes into account the arab diaspora will at most be a balanced presentation of how we arrived here but likely it won't stray far from how we've been teaching things for decades.

              I think high schoolers are more than capable to take on that kind of information and make decisions for themselves. I think a balanced ethnic studies course could be amazing, we often don't shine a light on the contributions, struggles, or even just existence of non-majority groups. It's great to have students seeing themselves in the people they learn about and gain a fairer understanding of how we ended up where we are.

              1 vote
        3. [2]
          teaearlgraycold
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I think for current events you can do well to just teach students what has happened. Try to give an unbiased sampling of events. Use primary sources. Don’t teach people that Israel shouldn’t...

          I think for current events you can do well to just teach students what has happened. Try to give an unbiased sampling of events. Use primary sources. Don’t teach people that Israel shouldn’t exist. Teach them how it came to be, what the country has done, what people did in response, etc.

          Students should leave the classroom thinking the situation over there is fucked and that no group can avoid criticism. Which is a pretty good first step.

          3 votes
          1. Interesting
            Link Parent
            I suspect that won't be as simple as you think. This is a conflict where the year you choose to start has a great impact on the conclusions you come to. Do you start In 1948 (declaration of...

            Teach them how it came to be

            I suspect that won't be as simple as you think. This is a conflict where the year you choose to start has a great impact on the conclusions you come to. Do you start In 1948 (declaration of Israeli independence)? 1933 (Jews from Germany begin to flee to Mandatory Palestine)? 1917 (The Balfour declaration)? 1839 (The beginning of the modern Zionist political movement)? 1492 (when Sephardi Jews began to immigrate after being expelled from Spain and Portugal)? 1324(when the first synagogue was established under Ottoman rule)? 636 ( the establishment of the Ottoman Empire over an area with 30 Jewish existing communities in Haifa, Sh’chem, Hebron, Ramleh, Gaza, Jerusalem and other cities)?

            There are literally thousands of years of Jewish history in the region, though obviously smaller than the groups who emigrated after 1948. I don't think the choice of the first year to cover as the beginning is obvious.

            edit: You edited your comment while I was composing mine. On your last point, I agree with you that that would be a reasonable outcome.

            12 votes
        4. FaceLoran
          Link Parent
          Whatever the specifics of a particular case, whether or not a group is an ally of the United States should not come into consideration when teaching a course like this. No need to actively muddy...

          Whatever the specifics of a particular case, whether or not a group is an ally of the United States should not come into consideration when teaching a course like this. No need to actively muddy the water with Imperialism.

          3 votes
        5. Soggy
          Link Parent
          Teach the facts. My opinion is that we should not be allied with apartheid ethnostates or theocracies, but I'd prefer we do that by discouraging bigotry and superstition than abandoning minority...

          Teach the facts. My opinion is that we should not be allied with apartheid ethnostates or theocracies, but I'd prefer we do that by discouraging bigotry and superstition than abandoning minority populations in hostile regions. The moral and ethical judgment of a state's right to exist, and by extension the population's right to self-govern, probably should not be left to foreign scholars to decide.

          2 votes