14 votes

World Health Organization condemned for classifying intersex as 'disorder'

14 comments

  1. [12]
    Grzmot
    Link
    Is this a problem here? One would think that in developed countries such a procedure could never be performed without someone's explicit, informed consent. It's a big part of any doctor's job to...

    When performed on individuals without their personal informed consent

    Is this a problem here? One would think that in developed countries such a procedure could never be performed without someone's explicit, informed consent. It's a big part of any doctor's job to inform people of what's being done to them

    Even more so, classifying the various things that cause a person to be born intersex as disorders is, I think, valid. A disorder is defined as

    An ailment that affects the function of mind or body.

    Which it does, ya know? Intersex people often have malformed genitalia, lack the ability to get children etc.

    Being intersex does not make you any less of a person, but it can impede your life quality. Sex after all is a big part of our lives. So is forming a family.

    But if a bunch of people who've made it their lives to research this stuff say that we shouldn't do it, I'll trust them on this one.

    7 votes
    1. [10]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      Unless that someone is an infant or a child - like most intersex people are when their parents and the doctors decide what to do to them. There's a negative connotation to the word "disorder",...

      One would think that in developed countries such a procedure could never be performed without someone's explicit, informed consent.

      Unless that someone is an infant or a child - like most intersex people are when their parents and the doctors decide what to do to them.

      classifying the various things that cause a person to be born intersex as disorders is, I think, valid.

      There's a negative connotation to the word "disorder", which implies there's something broken or wrong which needs to be fixed. Intersex people's point is that they don't need fixing because they're not broken or wrong, they're just different.

      9 votes
      1. Grzmot
        Link Parent
        Fair points all around, I agree. Like I said, if such a large number of organizations/charities specialized on this sort of thing agree on this, maybe we should listen.

        Fair points all around, I agree. Like I said, if such a large number of organizations/charities specialized on this sort of thing agree on this, maybe we should listen.

        4 votes
      2. [8]
        PopeRigby
        Link Parent
        That's interesting. Makes me think about what is classified as a disorder or not. Is it subjective? Does it depend on whether the person with the disorder thinks they have a disorder?

        That's interesting. Makes me think about what is classified as a disorder or not. Is it subjective? Does it depend on whether the person with the disorder thinks they have a disorder?

        3 votes
        1. Rocket_Man
          Link Parent
          Despite what others have said it can be a very subjective process. Perhaps not in extreme cases but there's a spectrum between people being neurotypical and having a disease or disorder. In a lot...

          Despite what others have said it can be a very subjective process. Perhaps not in extreme cases but there's a spectrum between people being neurotypical and having a disease or disorder. In a lot of ways it does come down to whether individuals or others see it as an issue. Who's to say left handedness isn't a developmental disorder? It's frequent but also anomalous considering only about 10% of people are left handed.

          3 votes
        2. [6]
          alyaza
          Link Parent
          for most disorders i would say that classification is not really subjective, or at least not in a sense where it's meaningful to make the distinction between what's a judgment call and what's...

          That's interesting. Makes me think about what is classified as a disorder or not. Is it subjective? Does it depend on whether the person with the disorder thinks they have a disorder?

          for most disorders i would say that classification is not really subjective, or at least not in a sense where it's meaningful to make the distinction between what's a judgment call and what's objective. disorders are generally considered to be physically, emotionally, socially or culturally (or some permutation of the above, or all of the above) anomalous states of being such that there's no real subjectivity about the fact that they're anomalous, which is what makes them disorders. virtually all of the disorders recognized by the DSM-V or the ICD-10 (and honestly, most of ones recognized by neither but still generally lumped in with the lot) are well researched and kinda self-evident. the subjective parts seem to be what disorders are or are not recognized between them and how they are diagnosed. what a person thinks about having a disorder usually doesn't factor very much into the equation, although it can reinforce a diagnosis or occasionally dispel one.

          2 votes
          1. [4]
            PopeRigby
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            So, if a disorder is an anomalous state, should intersex be considered a disorder? I would say it's anomalous, because most people aren't intersex, but like @Algernon_Asimov said, disorder has a...

            So, if a disorder is an anomalous state, should intersex be considered a disorder? I would say it's anomalous, because most people aren't intersex, but like @Algernon_Asimov said, disorder has a negative connotation, so what are you supposed to do there?

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              alyaza
              Link Parent
              probably just use intersex without qualification of whether or not it's a disorder, to be honest? that's what most governments do over the formal term, which is supposed to be disorders of...

              probably just use intersex without qualification of whether or not it's a disorder, to be honest? that's what most governments do over the formal term, which is supposed to be disorders of sex(ual) development (DSD) and has been the official medical terminology since 2006. one of the main issues i think with trying to classify intersex as a disorder or not a disorder is the very attempt to categorize in the first place, given that the WHO and other organizations tend to treat most of the things under the DSD banner as interchangeable with being intersex when those things all greatly vary in how they affect someone's sexual development. some of them are very significant while others are pretty much indistinguishable from normal sexual development unless closely examined, so treating them all the same or as equal disorders doesn't really make a lot of sense.

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                PopeRigby
                Link Parent
                What would you call it then? There is something going on, regardless of it being a disorder or not.

                What would you call it then? There is something going on, regardless of it being a disorder or not.

                2 votes
                1. alyaza
                  Link Parent
                  the best way to handle this would probably be to call it a disorder when it's an issue or significant, and don't call it one when it's not an issue or not significant instead of trying to...

                  the best way to handle this would probably be to call it a disorder when it's an issue or significant, and don't call it one when it's not an issue or not significant instead of trying to blanket-issue it. like i said, it's nuanced so it doesn't really make sense to equivocate everything.

                  3 votes
          2. kfwyre
            Link Parent
            To add on to your last point, a good example of an area where the individual's perspective can dispel a diagnosis is in the criteria for Female Sexual Interest/Arousal Disorder or Male Hypoactive...

            To add on to your last point, a good example of an area where the individual's perspective can dispel a diagnosis is in the criteria for Female Sexual Interest/Arousal Disorder or Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder. Historically these were used to pathologize those who identify as asexual, however the DSM-V now includes a clause that notes that a diagnosis is not necessary if the individual identifies as asexual.

            3 votes
    2. eladnarra
      Link Parent
      Folks have already covered this, but here's an overview of the issue.

      Is this a problem here? One would think that in developed countries such a procedure could never be performed without someone's explicit, informed consent.

      Folks have already covered this, but here's an overview of the issue.

      3 votes
  2. [2]
    Nep
    Link
    well... didn't they remove it?

    well... didn't they remove it?

    1. Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      I've just checked, and I can't find any follow-up to say that the WHO removed the word "disorder" from its definition of intersex. The new guidelines were approved on 25th May, but I can't find an...

      I've just checked, and I can't find any follow-up to say that the WHO removed the word "disorder" from its definition of intersex. The new guidelines were approved on 25th May, but I can't find an article saying that any changes were made to the guidelines before they were approved.

      And, when I look at the International Classification of Diseases itself, I find a section titled "Malformative disorders of sex development", which includes descriptions of conditions that look like intersex conditions. It looks like intersex conditions are classified as "malformative disorders of sex development".