12 votes

Instagram "Personals" account relaunches as Lex, a dating and social app targeted for people who are lesbian, bisexual, asexual, womxn, trans, genderqueer, intersex, two-spirit and non-binary

Tags: dating

27 comments

  1. [2]
    Sahasrahla
    Link
    Hadn't heard of "personals" but it sounds (sounded) nice. I haven't done online dating in years (and have never used tinder or anything similar) but I like the old system of reading a bunch of...

    Hadn't heard of "personals" but it sounds (sounded) nice. I haven't done online dating in years (and have never used tinder or anything similar) but I like the old system of reading a bunch of detailed and personal profiles and then messaging someone who I thought seemed like we would be a good match for each other. My impression of tinder and its clones is that it's much more of a photo-based snap judgment followed by trying to start conversations with a bunch of people you know almost nothing about. Hopefully "Lex" can stay true to its roots and not trend towards being just another swipe-based tinder clone.

    4 votes
    1. smoontjes
      Link Parent
      I think this sounds really nice too. It's a great change of pace for us GSRM folk and despite knowing nothing more about it than this article, it feels welcoming already. Like I'd feel a sense of...

      I think this sounds really nice too. It's a great change of pace for us GSRM folk and despite knowing nothing more about it than this article, it feels welcoming already. Like I'd feel a sense of belonging on there.

      2 votes
  2. vivaria
    Link
    I installed it, and made a post. Not much activity in my area (I count 5 personal ads for a city of ~90,000, so, not bad either). It was refreshing to see openness about bits of identity that I...

    I installed it, and made a post. Not much activity in my area (I count 5 personal ads for a city of ~90,000, so, not bad either). It was refreshing to see openness about bits of identity that I wouldn't normally see on an app like Bumble. It also seems like there isn't really any funny business for limiting what you can see, or disguising the true amount of activity, which is nice. I don't feel like my attention is being gamed through dark patterns. I've been having a nice moment scrolling through the personal ads worldwide, and taking in the different bits of self-expression.

    4 votes
  3. [18]
    Grzmot
    Link
    I'm going to need a glossary on these terms. What's a womxn? Two-spirit? Wat?

    I'm going to need a glossary on these terms. What's a womxn? Two-spirit? Wat?

    7 votes
    1. kfwyre
      Link Parent
      Here's a quick rundown as I understand them. I'm not an authority by any means, but I'm active in LGBT communities. I'm also doing this from the top of my head, rather than searching these up, as...

      Here's a quick rundown as I understand them. I'm not an authority by any means, but I'm active in LGBT communities. I'm also doing this from the top of my head, rather than searching these up, as a way of giving a sort of "on the ground" view rather than a more formalized/academic view that might come from looking up stuff. For anyone reading this with a better knowledge/understanding than me, if I'm off the mark, let me know!

      Lesbian

      You probably don't need this one spelled out, but it refers to a woman who is primarily interested in other women romantically and/or sexually.

      Bisexual

      Again, this is fairly common but there's some nuance to it. For some this refers to someone who's interested in men and women romantically and/or sexually, though for many it means an attraction regardless of gender identity. Some people identify as "pansexual" rather than "bisexual" as a way of affirming this, which removes some of the ambiguity of "bisexual" as a term. "Pansexual" is also explicitly inclusive of trans and non-binary people, whereas "bisexual" isn't fundamentally inclusive though it certainly can be and often is.

      Asexual

      Asexual refers to someone who experiences either no or relatively low amounts of sexual attraction to others. Asexuals can experience romantic attraction and will often identify not only as asexual (or "ace") but as a sub-type based on their romantic orientation -- heteroromantic, homoromantic, bi/panromantic, or aromantic (denoting someone who doesn't experience romantic attraction).

      There's also demisexual, which usually falls under the ace umbrella and refers to a person who does experience sexual attraction, but only after strongly connecting with a particular individual.

      There's also the label of "gray" asexuals, which are asexuals who do experience sexual attraction but not enough to define a sexual identity around it. This could be someone with a very low sex drive or someone who has only experienced sexual attraction a very few times in their lives.

      Womxn

      I am not super familiar with this term, and I could be VERY off the mark with this. Based entirely on seeing it only a few times in context and making assumptions based off of those limited moments (I'll admit I've never actually looked it up directly), my understanding of it is that it is similar to "pansexual" in that it is openly and explicitly inclusive of trans individuals.

      For trans women, there's often a question of whether they'll be welcome in women's spaces or whether their needs or experiences will be considered or respected. Using "womxn" in place of "women" explicitly affirms this, much in the same way that a rainbow flag lets LGBT people know they're welcome somewhere.

      Trans

      Refers to someone who has a gender identity that is different from the body they were born with. Historically the focus has been on people who fully transition from one end of the gender spectrum to the other (male-to-female and female-to-male used to be preferred terminology). Recently the term has opened up a lot and includes more than just people with male or female gender identity. It also used to be focused primarily on transition (e.g. living and presenting as one's identified gender), but is now more focused on the identity itself. As such, a male-presenting person who identifies as female for example would still be considered trans regardless of whether or not they've transitioned to present as female.

      Genderqueer

      This is used by people who don't identify as explicitly male or female. It could be someone who identifies as somewhere in-between, someone who identifies as both, someone who identifies with neither, or someone whose gender identity is fluid and can change over time. As of late the term "non-binary" has taken the reigns for this idea. I don't see "genderqueer" nearly as much as I used to.

      Intersex

      This refers to someone who is born with properties of both male and female bodies, or with certain elements missing. Historically many intersex people underwent surgeries or hormonal treatments as infants or children to "correct" their sex and make it align with explicitly male or female expectations. This is, thankfully, less common than it used to be but can still be an issue.

      Two-spirit

      This is one I'm not intimately familiar with and I've never actually met someone who (to my knowledge) identifies as two-spirit, but my understanding is that it's a Native American term for people who do not fit the gender binary -- a culturally specific form of "non-binary."

      Non-binary

      See "genderqueer." As far as I know there's not really a difference between these, though I could definitely be wrong on that.


      If I've made any errors or missed the mark, please let me know! Also if anyone reading this has any questions, please ask! I love to talk about this stuff and don't mind answering questions, even ones that might be difficult or tense.

      6 votes
    2. [16]
      vivaria
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      EDIT, condensed from Wikipedia, with citation markers removed for readability: For womxn: For Two-spirit: Why the need for more and more terms and labels? I can't speak for everyone, but,...

      Search engines are your friend! The resources are out there for self-education.

      EDIT, condensed from Wikipedia, with citation markers removed for readability:

      For womxn:

      The term Womxn is an alternative term for the English language word women which has been regularly in use since 2015 to explicitly include transgender women and women of color. It has been used in a similar manner as womyn and wimmin, as a rejection of the folk etymology of 'woman' allegedly being 'of man'. Due to transgender women and women of colour's perceived exclusion from the usage of these respellings, an "x" is used to "broaden the scope of womanhood," to include them. "While hard to pronounce, “womxn” is perhaps the most inclusive word yet using an “x” to tinker with the word’s literal approach to gender in a similar way as “Latinx,” which has become an ungendered alternative to words like “Latino” and “Latina.” 'Womxn' explicitly includes femme/feminine-identifying genderqueer and non-binary individuals.

      For Two-spirit:

      Two-Spirit (also two spirit or, occasionally, twospirited) is a modern, pan-Indian, umbrella term used by some Indigenous North Americans to describe Native people in their communities who fulfill a traditional third-gender (or other gender-variant) ceremonial role in their cultures. "Two Spirit" is not interchangeable with "LGBT Native American" or "Gay Indian"; rather, it was intended, despite being in English, to carry on the traditional meanings of the terms in Indigenous languages for the culturally-specific ceremonial roles that are recognized and confirmed by the Elders of the two-spirit's ceremonial community.

      Why the need for more and more terms and labels?

      I can't speak for everyone, but, personally I like new terms. I like having more tools to describe experiences that existing terms don't adequately capture. I like challenging existing ideas that say only certain experiences deserve recognition and validity. I'm the kind of person who will say, "Why are these the only options? What happens if we look at [insert blank] through another lens instead?" I like expanding the palette of what's considered possible, especially with regards to identity.

      If anyone wants to chat further, perhaps make a new high level comment so further discussion isn't buried under a noise comment. Or, I can do that if you like.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        hamstergeddon
        Link Parent
        I'm not who you replied to, but personally I don't like "just google it" responses like this. If everyone "just googled it", there would be even less discussion taking place on this site than...

        I'm not who you replied to, but personally I don't like "just google it" responses like this. If everyone "just googled it", there would be even less discussion taking place on this site than there already is. Plus if just one person replies with an actual answer, it's here for other folks to learn from down the road.

        11 votes
        1. vivaria
          Link Parent
          That's fair. I like your answer most -- turning a simple question into a deeper discussion is an admirable goal to have.

          That's fair. I like your answer most -- turning a simple question into a deeper discussion is an admirable goal to have.

          5 votes
      2. [2]
        anahata
        Link Parent
        Let's say you know nothing about driving a car (like I don't!). If someone tells you to "just google it", then you're going to get a confusing mess of information that's not presented well for...

        Let's say you know nothing about driving a car (like I don't!).

        If someone tells you to "just google it", then you're going to get a confusing mess of information that's not presented well for someone who has no idea what they're doing. Gender identity is an extremely confusing thing that you can actually do an entire degree in. Simplifying all of that complexity to "just google it" is lazy and disingenuous.

        I categorically disagree with "I don't have to explain myself to you". There are so many people who apply so many esoteric (and in some cases, unique) labels to themselves, and if they're not going to explain, how is everyone else going to learn? This is then combined with folks who complain about not being understood, despite not wanting to explain themselves. Wat?

        Furthermore, which resources are trustworthy? Which ones are correct, which ones are valid, up to date, not trolling or otherwise problematic? How am I to know that as someone who doesn't know this particular bit of gender theory? I'm somewhere on the nonbinary spectrum myself and even I don't know what womxn means.

        6 votes
        1. vivaria
          Link Parent
          Normally I'd agree with you (I've made lots of ranty posts on Tildes about trustworthiness of information and acknowledging complexity -- those are hills I've died on many times... to a fault,...

          Normally I'd agree with you (I've made lots of ranty posts on Tildes about trustworthiness of information and acknowledging complexity -- those are hills I've died on many times... to a fault, really) but Grzmot's comment was about definitions for terms. They've got relatively straightforward answers. I didn't know what they meant either, so I googled it, saw this, went "oh okay" and then made my comment on Tildes.

          If they were asking a more substantial question then I would have given a different response.

          4 votes
      3. [5]
        Grzmot
        Link Parent
        First result on DuckDuckGo: Urban dictionary Note: I do not condone this kind of language. Second result is actually Wikipedia, though it doesn't really get better from there on. I've got nothing...

        First result on DuckDuckGo: Urban dictionary

        womxn
        A word created by SJWs to remove "men"/"man" from woman/women. Not only does it look retarded, it makes feminism look more like a bunch of crybabies.

        Note: I do not condone this kind of language.
        Second result is actually Wikipedia, though it doesn't really get better from there on.

        I've got nothing against people in the LGBT sphere, but if at some point people are going to come and ask why you're continously making up new terms. Two-spirit is apparently a third gender specifically for native Americans but it's not actually a traditional term but was made up in 1990 in a conference. Shit like "womxn" isn't especially inviting to search for when everything on the internet is outrage, and all you'll get is outrage in your search results. Besides, I can't debate a Wikipedia article.

        5 votes
        1. [4]
          vivaria
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Thank you for reminding me that duckduckgo exists, and to not assume that people will see what I see when I google things. I will be more careful next time.

          Thank you for reminding me that duckduckgo exists, and to not assume that people will see what I see when I google things. I will be more careful next time.

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            Grzmot
            Link Parent
            We probably could've both put some more effort in our replies. I'll remember it for next time though :) Writing a posts on Tildes at 22:26 probably isn't going to lead to quality posts from my end...

            We probably could've both put some more effort in our replies. I'll remember it for next time though :)

            Writing a posts on Tildes at 22:26 probably isn't going to lead to quality posts from my end...

            5 votes
            1. [2]
              vivaria
              Link Parent
              Me too. Sorry if I came off as hostile. I have an issue with terse writing and conveying tone.

              Me too. Sorry if I came off as hostile. I have an issue with terse writing and conveying tone.

              5 votes
              1. Grzmot
                Link Parent
                Tone is hard in text mate. All's well.

                Tone is hard in text mate. All's well.

                3 votes
      4. [6]
        Sahasrahla
        Link Parent
        Googling "womxn" the first page of results included an outrage piece from a British tabloid that said womxn is widely acknowledged as a sexist, racist term that no one likes. Sometimes expecting...

        The resources are out there for self-education.

        Googling "womxn" the first page of results included an outrage piece from a British tabloid that said womxn is widely acknowledged as a sexist, racist term that no one likes. Sometimes expecting people to "self-educate" instead of taking an opportunity to talk with someone outside their filter bubble can do more harm than good.

        2 votes
        1. [3]
          vivaria
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Is that what you see? I see this. Good to know.

          Is that what you see? I see this. Good to know.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Sahasrahla
            Link Parent
            I see that too. My results are the wiki link, some news stories about Elizabeth Warren, Urban Dictionary, and some old news stories (including the tabloid) about some outrage/controversy about a...

            I see that too. My results are the wiki link, some news stories about Elizabeth Warren, Urban Dictionary, and some old news stories (including the tabloid) about some outrage/controversy about a British museum using the term womxn. (Though, who knows what Google might show different people.) My point is more that for any kind of politically charged topic it's easy to stumble across reactionary outrage when trying to find more information if you're not familiar with the topic. (Or, I suppose, any other flavour of misinformational outrage.)

            3 votes
            1. vivaria
              Link Parent
              @Grzmot made the point very well. DuckDuckGo did exactly that, and I understand the point much better now. I wrongly assumed people would see what I saw.

              @Grzmot made the point very well. DuckDuckGo did exactly that, and I understand the point much better now. I wrongly assumed people would see what I saw.

              2 votes
        2. [2]
          Grzmot
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Which is why I wrote the original comment. I genuinely have no idea what those two terms mean, but based on their sound I guessed that the first thing I find when looking them up was going to be...

          Which is why I wrote the original comment. I genuinely have no idea what those three two terms mean, but based on their sound I guessed that the first thing I find when looking them up was going to be some cheap outrage bait.

          Addendum: I can't count.

          1 vote
          1. Sahasrahla
            Link Parent
            I don't personally know what womxn means to the people who use it because I haven't seen it used much, but it's political enough that some people will get upset about it and so it can make good...

            I don't personally know what womxn means to the people who use it because I haven't seen it used much, but it's political enough that some people will get upset about it and so it can make good fodder for outrage-mongers. For the other term (two spirit) I see that used in Canada as basically an LGBTQesque term used in a First Nations (i.e. Native American) context. It's common here as well for 2S to be included in the usual LGBTQ acronym.

            1 vote
  4. [6]
    hhh
    Link
    so is it no cis men or not straight cis men allowed?

    so is it no cis men or not straight cis men allowed?

    1 vote
    1. [2]
      MimicSquid
      Link Parent
      Well, the headline of the article literally says: "Not for cis straight men." But buried in the article, it says 'Lex noted there were many other app options for cis queer men and that Lex was...

      Well, the headline of the article literally says: "Not for cis straight men." But buried in the article, it says 'Lex noted there were many other app options for cis queer men and that Lex was meant to be “centered around the other queers of the world”.' As such, it seems that cis men are not the focus, queer or straight.

      4 votes
      1. hhh
        Link Parent
        are there actually other apps that fil that niche? grindr seems mainly for hookups. i'm not saying that this app should fill that niche as I understand that's its supposed to be for wlw to find...

        are there actually other apps that fil that niche? grindr seems mainly for hookups.

        i'm not saying that this app should fill that niche as I understand that's its supposed to be for wlw to find other wlw

        1 vote
    2. Loire
      Link Parent
      While that would be the shorter description, it comes with less positive connotations than saying "lesbian, bisexual, asexual, womxn, trans, genderqueer, intersex, two-spirit and non-binary".

      While that would be the shorter description, it comes with less positive connotations than saying "lesbian, bisexual, asexual, womxn, trans, genderqueer, intersex, two-spirit and non-binary".

      2 votes
    3. [2]
      clone1
      Link Parent
      No straight cis women either

      No straight cis women either

      2 votes
      1. hhh
        Link Parent
        yeah I know I was just confused if the article was saying cis queer men were allowed as it said no cis men at one point but no cis straight men in another

        yeah I know I was just confused if the article was saying cis queer men were allowed as it said no cis men at one point but no cis straight men in another