There's been a lot of discussion lately on masculinity and what it means to be a man in today's world. One of the best examples I can think of in fiction (and possibly overall) is the writing...
There's been a lot of discussion lately on masculinity and what it means to be a man in today's world. One of the best examples I can think of in fiction (and possibly overall) is the writing behind Avatar: The Last Airbender and the journey its collection of characters embark on. The relationship between Zuko, a struggling teen rejected by his father trying hard to regain his favor, and his uncle Iroh, demonstrates examples of both how to be a good father figure and how to grow as a young man. This video by Hello Future Me highlights and discusses that relationship.
If you've never seen the show before, I highly recommend it.
Iroh and Zuko were a masterclass in character driven writing, and their journey alone makes the show worth watching. To me, it's a shame that the rest of the show is less serious and more kid...
Iroh and Zuko were a masterclass in character driven writing, and their journey alone makes the show worth watching.
To me, it's a shame that the rest of the show is less serious and more kid oriented. I would have loved for all of the characters to have the same level of development, displayed using the same parallels & visual storytelling.
We could have what you wanted if animation ever finally completely breaks the "meant for children" barrier in the West. We're getting there, but man it has been a damn slow crawl. There's been a...
We could have what you wanted if animation ever finally completely breaks the "meant for children" barrier in the West.
We're getting there, but man it has been a damn slow crawl. There's been a lot of interesting stories hampered by this need to fit content rules for children's entertainment predicated on the assumption that animation only really caters to kids.
To be fair, TLA did come out some years ago, when this assumption was more pervasive. Nowadays we do have animation that explores more thematically & emotionally rich characters. The best example...
To be fair, TLA did come out some years ago, when this assumption was more pervasive. Nowadays we do have animation that explores more thematically & emotionally rich characters.
The best example for this is Arcane. It explores, directly or indirectly, pretty heavy topics - child abuse, abandonment and neglect, PTSD/trauma.
I feel like they tried doing the same with Legend of Korra (Amon's backstory, for example), but the show was still chained to this need to be kid-friendly. I think it held it back.
But I'm still curious what these creators will do with the next animated Avatar series.
I agree that it's been a slow arduous process getting adult entertainment (outside comedies) in animated form in western media, but I'd like to defend some of the childish aspects of ATLA. I think...
I agree that it's been a slow arduous process getting adult entertainment (outside comedies) in animated form in western media, but I'd like to defend some of the childish aspects of ATLA. I think well-crafted fiction meant simultaneously for adults and children (and not in a "throw in an occasional adult joke" sort of way) is an excellent space for storytelling. Watership Down and Over the Garden Wall is an example of this in western animation, I think. In this vein dark fantasy genre has some stuff like the Dark Crystal movie (and excellent, though sadly cancelled, prequel show The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance).
I understand how you feel but I think that that's what makes Avatar so special. It's rare (or at least it felt that way when I was growing up, I don't keep up with modern children's media so maybe...
I understand how you feel but I think that that's what makes Avatar so special. It's rare (or at least it felt that way when I was growing up, I don't keep up with modern children's media so maybe it's different now) for a piece of media made with children as the primary audience to have that sort of complex development and morality, something that actually respects the children viewing it to understand and resonate with those ideas. As a kid Avatar single-handedly shaped my worldview as well what media could be.
I was honestly getting a little sick of the masculinity discussions here (my fault, I was crawling the forum too hard) but I just can't say no to anyone offering Avatar: The Last Airbender...
I was honestly getting a little sick of the masculinity discussions here (my fault, I was crawling the forum too hard) but I just can't say no to anyone offering Avatar: The Last Airbender content. Uncle Iroh would see my strife, tell me to sit down under a nice tree, drink some tea, and just enjoy the fresh air.
I've enjoyed the conversation here more often than not, and it's fun to be vocal on a small but growing platform like this because such conversations will influence the direction the website's...
I've enjoyed the conversation here more often than not, and it's fun to be vocal on a small but growing platform like this because such conversations will influence the direction the website's culture evolves in. If Tildes becomes known for a place of thoughtful gender discussions (among many other things), I would be thrilled. But I also was effectively doom scrolling as bad as I ever did on reddit, so I dialed things down a notch.
On the topic of positive role models for men, I just discovered there's well over a dozen YouTube videos about how Aragorn from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is an example of positive masculinity which I find just bizarre. Even though I adore Aragorn, his story never really struck my emotional core as somebody to emulate or identify with especially since his struggles were often externalized versus internal. While good stories can be told with either kind of conflict, the latter bares much more fertilizer for emotional connection imo. To that, somebody like Bilbo or Frodo always felt fare more relatable and emulatable. The Iroh video here at least made a lot of sense as framing for gender discussion since it was about how to deal with themes of fatherhood/parenthood, guilt and forgiveness. Obviously, these aren't in strictly male topics, but approached from a male perspective.
As an aside, I didn't realize there was a veritable cottage industry of YouTube videos along the lines of "The Positive Masculinity of [X fictional character.]" That's kind of funny there's such a market for this kind of thing.
I think the first “Positive Masculinity of X” I saw was for Newt Scamander. And honestly, it was a pretty decent video, touching on the very compassionate & whimsical nature of Newt.
I think the first “Positive Masculinity of X” I saw was for Newt Scamander.
And honestly, it was a pretty decent video, touching on the very compassionate & whimsical nature of Newt.
Out of the Harry Potter universe, Newt was perhaps the one character I would want to befriend the most. There's just a wholesomeness to his character that I couldn't quite express, but the Newt...
Out of the Harry Potter universe, Newt was perhaps the one character I would want to befriend the most. There's just a wholesomeness to his character that I couldn't quite express, but the Newt video by Pop Culture Detective covered well imo. I don't particularly love or hate Happy Potter, it's fine enough, but I definitely would like to see more characters like Newt in big Hollywood productions. In comparison, I absolutely detest the depiction of social awkwardness and shyness in shows like Big Bang Theory and find nothing there endearing.
honestly Zuko's story was the best one in Airbender and he was my favorite character. But I admit I love a redemption story. But they really did a good job with making him a very 3d character. And...
honestly Zuko's story was the best one in Airbender and he was my favorite character. But I admit I love a redemption story. But they really did a good job with making him a very 3d character.
And I tear up everytime I see that Iroh scene with him singing to his son's grave (even every time he showed it in that video).
There's been a lot of discussion lately on masculinity and what it means to be a man in today's world. One of the best examples I can think of in fiction (and possibly overall) is the writing behind Avatar: The Last Airbender and the journey its collection of characters embark on. The relationship between Zuko, a struggling teen rejected by his father trying hard to regain his favor, and his uncle Iroh, demonstrates examples of both how to be a good father figure and how to grow as a young man. This video by Hello Future Me highlights and discusses that relationship.
If you've never seen the show before, I highly recommend it.
Iroh and Zuko were a masterclass in character driven writing, and their journey alone makes the show worth watching.
To me, it's a shame that the rest of the show is less serious and more kid oriented. I would have loved for all of the characters to have the same level of development, displayed using the same parallels & visual storytelling.
We could have what you wanted if animation ever finally completely breaks the "meant for children" barrier in the West.
We're getting there, but man it has been a damn slow crawl. There's been a lot of interesting stories hampered by this need to fit content rules for children's entertainment predicated on the assumption that animation only really caters to kids.
To be fair, TLA did come out some years ago, when this assumption was more pervasive. Nowadays we do have animation that explores more thematically & emotionally rich characters.
The best example for this is Arcane. It explores, directly or indirectly, pretty heavy topics - child abuse, abandonment and neglect, PTSD/trauma.
I feel like they tried doing the same with Legend of Korra (Amon's backstory, for example), but the show was still chained to this need to be kid-friendly. I think it held it back.
But I'm still curious what these creators will do with the next animated Avatar series.
I agree that it's been a slow arduous process getting adult entertainment (outside comedies) in animated form in western media, but I'd like to defend some of the childish aspects of ATLA. I think well-crafted fiction meant simultaneously for adults and children (and not in a "throw in an occasional adult joke" sort of way) is an excellent space for storytelling. Watership Down and Over the Garden Wall is an example of this in western animation, I think. In this vein dark fantasy genre has some stuff like the Dark Crystal movie (and excellent, though sadly cancelled, prequel show The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance).
I understand how you feel but I think that that's what makes Avatar so special. It's rare (or at least it felt that way when I was growing up, I don't keep up with modern children's media so maybe it's different now) for a piece of media made with children as the primary audience to have that sort of complex development and morality, something that actually respects the children viewing it to understand and resonate with those ideas. As a kid Avatar single-handedly shaped my worldview as well what media could be.
I was honestly getting a little sick of the masculinity discussions here (my fault, I was crawling the forum too hard) but I just can't say no to anyone offering Avatar: The Last Airbender content. Uncle Iroh would see my strife, tell me to sit down under a nice tree, drink some tea, and just enjoy the fresh air.
Everybody needs somebody like Uncle Iroh around.
I think as a feminist honestly it's a good discussion. We should be discussing what a good view of masculinity is, not just what is toxic.
I've enjoyed the conversation here more often than not, and it's fun to be vocal on a small but growing platform like this because such conversations will influence the direction the website's culture evolves in. If Tildes becomes known for a place of thoughtful gender discussions (among many other things), I would be thrilled. But I also was effectively doom scrolling as bad as I ever did on reddit, so I dialed things down a notch.
On the topic of positive role models for men, I just discovered there's well over a dozen YouTube videos about how Aragorn from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is an example of positive masculinity which I find just bizarre. Even though I adore Aragorn, his story never really struck my emotional core as somebody to emulate or identify with especially since his struggles were often externalized versus internal. While good stories can be told with either kind of conflict, the latter bares much more fertilizer for emotional connection imo. To that, somebody like Bilbo or Frodo always felt fare more relatable and emulatable. The Iroh video here at least made a lot of sense as framing for gender discussion since it was about how to deal with themes of fatherhood/parenthood, guilt and forgiveness. Obviously, these aren't in strictly male topics, but approached from a male perspective.
As an aside, I didn't realize there was a veritable cottage industry of YouTube videos along the lines of "The Positive Masculinity of [X fictional character.]" That's kind of funny there's such a market for this kind of thing.
I think the first “Positive Masculinity of X” I saw was for Newt Scamander.
And honestly, it was a pretty decent video, touching on the very compassionate & whimsical nature of Newt.
Out of the Harry Potter universe, Newt was perhaps the one character I would want to befriend the most. There's just a wholesomeness to his character that I couldn't quite express, but the Newt video by Pop Culture Detective covered well imo. I don't particularly love or hate Happy Potter, it's fine enough, but I definitely would like to see more characters like Newt in big Hollywood productions. In comparison, I absolutely detest the depiction of social awkwardness and shyness in shows like Big Bang Theory and find nothing there endearing.
A perfect example of masculinity that we should all strive for.
honestly Zuko's story was the best one in Airbender and he was my favorite character. But I admit I love a redemption story. But they really did a good job with making him a very 3d character.
And I tear up everytime I see that Iroh scene with him singing to his son's grave (even every time he showed it in that video).