How do you find community after leaving a religion?
Hi Tildes! Long time lurker here who recently got an account. I love the long-form thoughtful discussion here and thought this might generate some interesting replies.
I and my partner left a high-control religious community (fundamentalist evangelicalism, think a Canadian version of the Shiny Happy People doc) eight years ago, and the experience was like a bomb going off in our life that we still find ourselves recovering from in many ways.
Growing up in that environment led to us having an extremely strong, and very possibly distorted, sense of what community is. People that treat you like family; bringing meals when you're sick, throwing you wedding showers, helping with home repairs, being shoulders to cry on... the works. Of course, as we later found out, this community could very easily be turned against you by certain powerful members of it, and it turned out there were many many strings attached that only became visible once we bumped up against them. When we left Christianity our entire community essentially disowned and ghosted us and we were left adrift.
It's now been eight years and we've managed to develop some friendships with folks that we hang out with once in a while, but nothing that even approaches the level of closeness and "family" that we felt in the church.
But maybe that's not normal or a realistic expectation? The funny thing about being so immersed in a subculture like that your entire life is that when you're suddenly on the outside of it, you realize you don't really have any idea what normal is. I still feel like I don't a lot of the time.
So: What insight can you share? Has anyone had a similar experience? What do your social communities look like out here in the real world? How do you find them?
I just want to chime in with a different perspective as someone who grew up in a non-religious household but still felt a sense of community. It's something I'm still trying (and mainly failing) to foster for myself but I've definitely thought a lot about it.
Growing up, our house was a very open place. The door was nearly always unlocked, friends would give a quick knock and just poke their heads in and give us a shout if nobody answered. They'd pop by for five minutes and end up staying for lunch. It was a kind of openness that I see lots of people online decrying (the "if I'm not expecting someone I'm not opening the door " crowd) but even as an introvert I really appreciated it.
I think this community feeling was really created and nurtured by my mum. She had lots of friends from the groups she belonged to, as well as becoming friends with parents of kids me and my sister did activities with. You might imagine from this that she was just a very gregarious person but it was just the opposite. She was very quiet and appreciated time to herself but she also always saw the best in people. She was a great listener and approached everyone with empathy and I think this is what drew people to her.
Commenters here are talking about joining interest groups and meeting people that way and while I don't think it's bad advice - even if I haven't had much success with MeetUp personally - it does limit your social circle quite a bit. I think the internet has made us all very aware that there are people out there who share the same niche interests as us but finding those people in person can be a lot harder. And there's no guarantee that you'll vibe with them on other levels. Communities which don't centre around one single interest can be more diverse and open you to people from more walks of life. Groups that actually revolve around enriching your local area can be great for this - and replicate more how people connected pre-internet, based on where in the world they found themselves. This could be some kind of volunteering or even activism advocating for a local cause.
And the key is to be open to the people you meet. Ask them about their lives and their interests, invite them over for a cup of coffee even if it's scary to put yourself out there.
The other thing to mention is that a the organic growth of a community will depend on the kind of area you live in. You can probably guess from my description that I grew up in a quiet, safe area. It was easy for people to walk through, and quite dense (think stereotypical British terraced housing). I have no doubt that this contributed to the open feeling of our home. It's something that's discussed quite a bit in anti-car communities online - that the sprawl and lack of pedestrian friendly infrastructure in north American suburbs contributes to a feeling of alienation. I've no idea if this applies to you, but it's worth considering that where you live might be making it harder to connect with people.
My mum died a few years ago. There was about six weeks between her terminal diagnosis and her death and there were people visiting every day. They stopped for a quick chat on their way past, they brought food, they helped out by doing some washing-up or hanging out the laundry, they sat in the garden with us and ate lunch in the summer sunshine. Our nextdoor neighbour opened her house to our relatives who travelled to see her; she loved Bach so a friend of a friend who played the cello came and played for her in the living room. It was a real community and it wasn't based on any obligation or malicious desire to keep people separated from the world at large.
I'm not sure how possible it is to recreate something like that but I really hope you have success growing friendships on your own terms.
As an introvert myself, I really found value in reading this. It’s a nice strengths-based perspective on how some of the superpowers of introverts can actually be a means of increasing genuine connections with others.
So true! Some of my favorite dates and hangouts are simple - a good conversation. Sometimes my favorite hangouts are actually the silent company of others, absent the pressure to entertain or perform in the interpersonal setting. Sitting in comfort, together.
So, so true for me! I currently live in an area that’s residential, near a green space (park), walkable to essentials - grocery, hardware, laundry, etc. It makes a big difference!
This is really helpful, thank you so much! I've definitely been able to connect with some amazing people online that are also having this same struggle (I do a little podcast that has helped us make those connections), but we're not really geographically close so it's not quite the same. I think I'm partially still trying to come to terms with the idea that that kind of "church-style" community isn't all that common - and that's maybe not a terrible thing, as there's lots of abuses that are enabled by that style of community as well.
I love your Black Mass idea, that would be right up my alley. That sounds so fun!
I think I can relate very well to what you're experiencing. As a matter of fact, just today I was talking with my wife about the deep connections I had when I was in our former church home (also evangelical although I dont think Id call it fundamentalist but others probably would), especially with a couple of men that I still call my 'brothers' even though we are not nearly as close as we were for 20 years when we all went to the same church. I still consider them good friends but the truth is, we used to see each other weekly and then meet for coffee every other week or so, and share everything about our lives with each other - our hopes, fears, dreams, anxieties, joys, struggles, temptations.... everything. We laughed, talked, shared and prayed together. That bond was deep and I know most men are never fortunate enough to experience that level of care and love for other men. Those guys carried me through some very rough times.
Here's the hard part. I dont think "just" friendships, outside of the depth of shared faith, will ever come close to that same sense of community. I know what you mean about community. When we had someone in the family die, it wasn't a question of whether people would show up with food at the door, it was only a question of how much room we had in the freezer. If someone was really sick, at the very least there would be a pastor visiting in the hospital but likely several others from the church, people would be letting you know they were praying for you and your name would be mentioned at prayer meetings and in small groups and when you came back to church people would ask how you were doing. People were there 100% to support you. Baby showers, engagements, weddings, funerals, graduations, baptisms... the people in our church were there in one way or another for every life event. They were almost our entire social circle, and as our kids grew up, the parents of their friends in the church became our closest friends. Our church had small groups that met weekly and those young couples became our dearest friends.
My community, my life and my faith blew apart when my wife shocked me by handing me a divorce. Everything collapsed after that, including my connection to the community I held so close for all of my life. Not so much because they pulled away, there was definitely some of that, but because I pulled away from the faith and took a path that included much less emphasis on God. I quit attending church, quit doing most things associated with being a 'good Christian'. I still have some beliefs but I hold them much more privately and quietly these days.
I can say that Im happily remarried and that all happened about 15 years ago, but Ive never found anything close to the same sense of community that I once had. Ive even contemplated going back to another church just to find those same kinds of connections again, but not sharing the same beliefs anymore Im not sure it would ever be quite the same and I most definitely cant fake it just for the sake of community. My 'community' has shrunk considerably and centers very much around my wife, our grown kids and now our grandkids, which is indeed delightful. But truthfully, its not quite the same. And short of going back and throwing ourselves back into a church, I dont think it ever will be.
Sorry, I wasn't planning on being so pessimistic, but your post sparked something. The only thing I can think of that kinda comes close was a service I attended after my divorce. I believe it was a Unitarian church. Very much less focus on the Bible and the gospel, much more focus on something akin to lectures, not sermons so much. But still the comfort of a regular gathering, shared ritual and food and fellowship after the service. Seemed like a nice way to ease into community without as much 'churchiness' if you will.
I wish you luck in your search. Let me know if you hit on anything that scratches that itch.
Thanks so much for your response, and I'm so sorry for what you've been through. So much of what you said is so relatable, though I can only imagine the additional pain of having a divorce layered on top of it.
There is a Unitarian church in town here that I've considered checking out - I think part of what has me a bit wary of anything "churchy" right now is the power dynamics of it all, and the weird authority structures that seem to come as a package deal with many churches - but maybe it's different without the weight of a deity behind the leadership. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
But thanks again for sharing. Even if it's true that there's nothing else like that kind of community out there, your story helps because it makes me feel less alone. So thank you! And I'll let you know if I ever hit on something that works!
I grew up in a Unitarian church, and I really enjoyed it - but as with any large group, the individual instances may be more or less of what you're looking for. I can at least say that it's generally a non-invasive sort of group, and in fact tends to attract a lot of disaffected Christian (particularly ex-Catholic) folks, as well as atheists, agnostics, pagans and various other flavors looking for a place to drink coffee and talk about philosophy/spirituality without any of the baggage of The Church.
Youre welcome. And you're definitely not alone. There are a few others on Tildes that have shared a few similar thoughts already.
I guess there's always the Quakers. Still a community, still a place to gather and share, but they reject a formal authority structure - as I understand it, everyone is considered equal and services are more 'led by the Spirit' than religious ritual.
Thanks for putting into words the things I've been feeling but haven't been able to (or wanting to) put words to. Glad to see it's not just me.
Honestly, it's the only hard part of being an atheist in conservative areas. Basically everyone has built their social circles around their church. I have a handful of close friends but we are all spread out now so it's hard to do anything.
Back when I lived in Oklahoma, the only place I was able to find a sense of community as an atheist was at a Unitarian Universalist church. At the UU church I attended, about 2/3 of the congregation identified as atheist, with the rest being a mix of Christians, Buddhists, Jews, and Pagans. But the one thing that every person had in common there was that they wouldn't judge anyone for being LGBT or for being quirky. That's probably the place I've been most embraced for being myself.
In a lot of the Bible Belt, people will inevitably ask, "Which church do you attend / Are you a church-goer?" at some point when you're getting to know them. I experienced open hostility the few times that I openly stated that I was an atheist, but found that saying "I go to the Unitarian church up the road" was met much more pleasantly. Even though I now live in a more accepting part of the country and don't attend a UU church anymore, I still often tell people I'm a UU-atheist.
I've thought about attending the local Unitarian Universalist Church, but I don't know how I feel about mimicking everything about religion except for actually believing in a deity. In all reality the root of that problem is probably from some emotional hang up about church that I developed as a child, but even being aware of that, it's still a major hang up for me.
I encouraged my wife to go to see how it was for her, because her upbringing with religion was a lot different than mine and she actively misses some of the aspects of attending church, but she didn't really have any interest because it wouldn't be the same experience as attending the traditionally black church she was raised in.
That's completely understandable. For people with religious trauma, it's possible that the ritual of sitting for a sermon or singing a hymn, even those with secular content, could lead to intense discomfort.
UU churches definitely aren't for every atheist/secularist. I had a friend that used to be Pentecostal, and he said visiting a UU congregation felt weirdly sterile. He'd been raised with church being full of energy, loud singing, and speaking in tongues, so the comparatively quiet and calm service made him too sleepy.
It's funny you mention the thing about not vibing with the energy. I mentioned UU to my wife again tonight and she said that she doesn't want to go to a UU church for basically the same reason. She said that going to a church full of largely white. secular liberals is in no way the same experience as going to a black church, and there's not really a replacement for that experience.
I don't have very many specific suggestions besides trying to find a relevant interest group or two and being friendly there, but I think it's interesting how you say you're looking for a level of closeness not usually present in normal relationships. I'd suggest that perhaps the degree of involvement you're talking about might be one of the more inherently "dangerous" qualities of groups like that.
I'm not suggesting at all that there are no groups that foster positive community in good faith, because obviously there are. Many groups that have an outsize impact on one's life do so intentionally, however, because that monopolization of one's life creates a disincentive to leaving those groups and makes the members more amenable to the whims of the whole - parts of which I'm guessing you may have experienced, from your OP.
So my advice would be to find something that binds you to other people first, that you enjoy for itself - whether that's a hobby, a shared interest or simple proximity in a shared space, and let friendship and community come with time. It won't feel as immediately good as being wrapped in an aggressively-welcoming congregation at first, and maybe not ever! But that's fine. Part of healthy involvement in community activities is knowledge of oneself, to set proper boundaries and create an independent perspective that can let you know when you've found the right place.
This is excellent - thanks so much for your perspective. I think you're on to something about that closeness being a potentially negative quality of those communities, even though it feels good when you're in it. The lack of boundaries in those communities is definitely something I see as unhealthy now, on the other side - being forced to confess your innermost thoughts to "accountability partners", talking about your "sins" in a private prayer circle so the shame of exposure prevents you from doing it again, that sort of stuff.
I really like what you're saying about focusing on the interest first, and letting relationships form around that with healthy boundaries. That sounds like a much better recipe for community.
It's interesting as I've had this kind of conversation with my wife before on being part of a "community" or a group of close friends (somebody above described as "found family") and here's some thoughts we had from our conversations, may or may not be useful just putting them down in case they are.
have you considered connecting with a less intense church? My wife and I are both atheists and basically have always been as adults. However we still get involved with our local church sometimes as they are a friendly community, normal people with virtually the same hobbies and interests, do good work and they're very welcoming to us despite knowing we've no interest in whatever they're worshipping. They've even asked to sing in the choir ("faith is not a requirement") where the religious choir master is openly gay. I don't know how realistic this is in Canada but certainly here in the UK if you have a relatively open minded church, they're a great bunch!
consider a relatively niche hobby where a small group of you are forced to spend a lot of time together to do it. We used to do reenactment (renaissance fair it seems to be called in other countries?) and creates a great community - you spend several weekends together over the spring and summer months and a bit less time outside of that training, practicing, sharing skills etc. Your group tends to bond very quickly and spend a lot of time together and becomes a small family... we only stopped as we didn't really have the time to commit anymore. I'm sure there are other hobbies that can achieve this as well.
and that's the thing with this kind of community group - relationships require work to keep them going which means you need to commit time and energy to them. Once/if you get other interests that fall outside the community, we found it's harder and harder to maintain it.
Food for thought maybe 🤷
So, I recently read a pretty decent book, We Should Get Together by Kat Vellos, that worked hard at trying to answer your question. She was faced with a relatively unfriendly, antisocial and transient urban environment and worked hard to overcome the disadvantages of that environment and found ways to make and deepen new friendships. I wouldn't say the book is a complete answer, but she has good insights.
There are religious communities that absolutely do not require belief. Unitarians and Quakers have been mentioned, but also Buddhist meditation groups.
Personally, I found some decent friendships through a Toastmasters group, but in the past, community sports groups, hiking groups, bird watching groups etc.
It's good to recognize that unlike when we are in school, community as an adult requires wanting it and both being open to it and also working to make it happen.
It would be helpful if you listed your interests. Things like gaming, anime, sports, etc. Are you in a large city?
For sure! I'm in a semi-large city in Ontario (not Toronto). Video games, board games, movies, TV, books, stuff like that. That's how we've made the few friends we have.
I guess my question is more along the lines of cultivating "community", not just "making friends" - like yeah, we've got some friends we have over for dinner/drinks/games once in a while, but it feels like we're missing that "part of something bigger than us, we're all in this together, we've all got each other's back" thing. It's hard to explain. Maybe it's just withdrawal symptoms from leaving that stuff behind... I don't know.
Have you thought about volunteering or activism of some kind? You may find those deeper connections and community bonds if you are actually putting effort into doing something than just happily passing time. You could also look into community gardens. I've met all kinds of people sharing the garden and everyone helps look out for each other's plants, even if you aren't really friends.
It's easy to make shallow level friendships by sharing entertainment, but if you want those deeper bonds of community you have to put in a great deal more effort.
I didn't escape anything but I did grow up in an intensely fundamentalist place, existing on the fringe as one of a handful of non-religious people. I look for folks who do particular things, and the deal is if I witness them then I will try to say hello in some way.
A few examples:
-Helping someone with no expectation of reward
-making a sacrifice in order to render help for someone
-getting frustrated at injustice
There's more but I think it gives enough of an idea. I look for people who do the sorts of things I think are right and good. I try to make a connection if I see it, fully prepared for the possibility it will go nowhere. And it does mean, unfortunately, it's gonna be a while before someone comes along. Not because folks are bad, I'm not trying to sound cynical, but because it's hard to witness folks doing some of these kinds of things.
To make it more concrete, for instance where I worked, I saw some folks really give everything they had to try to meet their goals, and who cared a lot about the real impact they were having. I reached out to them and straightforwardly said, these things are things I respect, so I would like to know you. And we are friends today. Those friends are a cut above too - they do the sort of stuff you're talking about, that deeper sort of hospitality/welcoming that means a lot more.