Idk how to say this nicely but even this post comes across as unlikeable. Here’s my advice: stop thinking like this ^. Nobody wants to be friends with someone like that.
Idk how to say this nicely but even this post comes across as unlikeable.
This is despite the fact that I know myself to be superior to the majority of people in most spheres of mental life.
Here’s my advice: stop thinking like this ^. Nobody wants to be friends with someone like that.
100% agree, and OP doubled down on that too with: OP I think the issue is you're probably coming off as an arrogant asshole or elitist. As per the above comment, nobody wants a friend like that.
100% agree, and OP doubled down on that too with:
I mean I'm a total midwit and probably dumber than most here but I'm ~95th percentile in most intelligence type tests so I really don't understand why I should be so uninteresting compared to the average person (or almost everyone for that matter).
OP I think the issue is you're probably coming off as an arrogant asshole or elitist. As per the above comment, nobody wants a friend like that.
Gotcha, and to be honest I hesitated a bit to even respond with that since I wasn’t sure it would add much to your struggle. I am glad to hear that you think you come across better in real...
Gotcha, and to be honest I hesitated a bit to even respond with that since I wasn’t sure it would add much to your struggle. I am glad to hear that you think you come across better in real interactions :)
Making friends is hard ! And keeping friendships is hard work, too. I think it will be hard for anyone here to really assess your situation and give meaningful advice. If it’s a possibility (I know for many it’s out of reach), I would strongly encourage you to find a therapist to talk about this kind of stuff with. That’s at least one ‘friend’ (ok, not really, but a support system :)) and someone who will hopefully be able to help you hone in on what friendship means to you and how to reach your goals.
The strategy that has always worked for me, has been to identify people who do things I like and respect, and offer them assistance in whatever it is they're doing. I use that as the opportunity...
The strategy that has always worked for me, has been to identify people who do things I like and respect, and offer them assistance in whatever it is they're doing. I use that as the opportunity to ask whether they'd like to get to know each other better, and more often than not that goes positively and I've kept those friendships close as time has gone on.
Biggest thing is just putting yourself aside for a bit. Trust that you are interesting. Trust in that and for a little while subsume yourself in what they're up to. Demonstrating the desire for friendship will often mean much, much more than merely saying it, and demonstrating that can be very easy. It just needs to be grounded, oriented around the other person, and not so much around yourself.
As an example, one of the best friends I've made, was someone I met at work a few years ago. I saw him be polite, attentive, and care deeply for the work he was doing. These are things I like, and respect. So I reached out to him and just straightforwardly said, I saw when you did x and thought that was some good shit, so if you're game I'd be up to get to know you better. He accepted, we are friends today.
As a counter example, I tried this with someone who did similar things, and he simply had no interest. Our other interests didn't overlap as much, he had plenty of friends already. All good. But, he remembered how straightforward I was, and what I had been straightforward about, and in the end became a solid work acquaintance. Through him I met some other folks, too.
That's been what's worked for me. Hope it's helpful. People gained an interest, after I showed an interest in them, is how the best of my friendships came about.
What kind of people do you admire and want to befriend? Think of your meetups: the folks you want to hang out with, what were they like? The folks who wanted to be your friends that you weren't...
What kind of people do you admire and want to befriend?
Think of your meetups: the folks you want to hang out with, what were they like? The folks who wanted to be your friends that you weren't interested in, what were they like?
Have you read How To Make Friends and Influence People? If yes what do you like about the book?
Well, you know what they say, if everyone you walk it smells like poop, you should look at your own shoes. I don't think generic advice would be useful, nor is this is a high bandwidth enough...
Well, you know what they say, if everyone you walk it smells like poop, you should look at your own shoes. I don't think generic advice would be useful, nor is this is a high bandwidth enough communication channel.
If you have family (preferably around the same age, or detached in some way - your parents are probably too biased) or an acquaintance you can ask, be upfront with them, ask them if you could hang out, have dinner or something, and have them list out all the red flags and/or bad vibes they got from you.
Hey OP. Doing this kind of introspection, especially on a public forum, can be daunting and leave you feeling vulnerable. Kudos on being willing to use this as an exercise to work on yourself. I...
Hey OP. Doing this kind of introspection, especially on a public forum, can be daunting and leave you feeling vulnerable. Kudos on being willing to use this as an exercise to work on yourself.
It appears almost everyone has a certain vivacity/spontaneity/expressiveness that I don't have. In fact I have never met anyone more lacking in this respect than myself. This is despite the fact that I know myself to be at least a little smarter than average. I mean I'm a total midwit and probably dumber than most here but I'm ~95th percentile in most intelligence type tests so I really don't understand why I should be so uninteresting compared to the average person (or almost everyone for that matter).
I can't say that I've personally found "intelligence" to be a fulfilling measure of what another person brings to the table. Aside from the question on how you quantify intelligence, people are so much more complex and have so much more to offer.
They may be funny, or thoughtful, or insightful, or really passionate about something. They may have different
perspectives, or lived a life that has left them with interesting stories to tell. Hell, they might just not be an asshole.
Being interested in learning about people goes a long way to building rapport.
Some random bits of advice:
Spend time in places/doing activites where you could meet people: obligations (work, school), hobbies (sports, theatre, maker spaces), or some other community (e.g. religion).
Put yourself out there. Friendship is a two-way street, and it takes work to maintain. Reaching out to people feels really, really awkward at first, but it gets easier. And it gives you an opportunity to check in, or ask them to hang out.
It's hard to tell what the problem might be from just this post; you might be able to get better feedback from a mental health professional (or literally anyone) with whom you engage for a much...
It's hard to tell what the problem might be from just this post; you might be able to get better feedback from a mental health professional (or literally anyone) with whom you engage for a much more extended period of time. But here are some thoughts and questions.
none through shared interests
You say you attempted to reach out; did you attempt to meet people through your interests? How?
This is going to sound brutal, but in my own experience, trying to meet people through "friend catalogues" has been a massive failure because most of the people I engaged with in this manner were--and this is perhaps no surprise--really bad at engaging with others and at being friends to others, even when I invested disproportionate effort into the relationship.
leaving for greener pastures
You say this, but it's not like friendship is an exclusive affair. What makes you think your friend "left"? What were the signs? What were the triggers? How long did it take for this presumptive process to take place?
almost everyone has a certain vivacity/spontaneity/expressiveness that I don't have.
Honestly, I think a lot of people are either faking this, or have trained that skill through faking it for so long. Everyone has their demons and almost everyone has to expend real effort to deal with strangers. It's no coincidence that so many want to drink themselves stupid or be under the influence of drugs in these situations.
I know myself to be superior to the majority of people in most spheres of mental life.
Are you approaching these friendships with the requisite openness and humility? How are you in conversation? Do you hear what your friends have to say and pay attention to their mental and emotional needs? Do you leave space for them in the conversation? Do you attempt to stop talking or otherwise communicating when they are overwhelmed or exhausted?
I really don't understand why I should be so uninteresting compared to the average person.
What are your interests? Are they popular? Are they accessible to other people? Are you good at explaining them in a way that others can understand? Did you try to find commonalities between your interests and those of others?
Friendships don't have to last long in order to be meaningful. This doesn't mean you should stop making an effort to sustain friendships long-term, it's just helpful to know that it's ok and...
Friendships don't have to last long in order to be meaningful. This doesn't mean you should stop making an effort to sustain friendships long-term, it's just helpful to know that it's ok and normal to have short-term / low-stakes / situation-based friendships too. Taking the pressure off of trying to make every connection permanent can help you just enjoy that connection you have in the present moment.
Similarly, growing apart doesn't necessarily mean the end of the friendship. Of course, sometimes it does, and sometimes one of you will intentionally end the friendship for whatever reason. But it's pretty normal for friendships to evolve and fluctuate over time. And just as it's possible to grow apart, it's also possible to rekindle a connection later on.
I'm in my mid-thirties and have definitely found that it's more difficult to create and sustain friendships as we all get older and busier. But I've personally found it helpful to take the pressure off of trying to keep things "the same as they always were" or trying to make things "last forever". Instead, I'm focusing on enjoying, nourishing, and reciprocating moments of friendship in my life.
When I attend events based on my interests, I do make it a point to be open to making new connections, but I also try not to put pressure on that; I'll make an effort to initiate a connection (for example, chat about shared interests) but will let it grow organically from there.
One of the most challenging aspects of sustaining friendships is organizing in-person bonding time. It might feel like you're constantly initiating / inviting, and people may be unresponsive or flaky. I do my best not to take it personally when people are unresponsive or flaky-- they might be overwhelmed with responsibilities or they might just not be vibing with me at the moment-- and that's ok. When I send an invitation it'll usually include something like "Let me know by [date/time] if you want to join!" which is my way of setting a boundary and avoiding waiting on last-minute confirmations (unless it's a super casual meetup that we can both confirm last-minute). And I always try my best to ask in a way that won't make someone feel pressured.
On the other hand, if I'm the one who is being invited and I want to go but can't, I make it a point to try to reschedule instead of just declining, for example, "Oh I can't make it then, but would love to [do this activity with you on this date/time], does that work for you?" I've found that I also have to be honest with myself in terms of how much energy I have to connect at the moment, and I have to trust that friends will understand if I decline an invite.
From Excellent Advice for Living by Kevin Kelly: You come across as someone who thinks of themself as superior to others. This is why you are having trouble making friends.
Every person you meet knows an amazing lot about something you know virtually nothing about. It won’t be obvious and your job is to discover what it is.
You come across as someone who thinks of themself as superior to others. This is why you are having trouble making friends.
Idk how to say this nicely but even this post comes across as unlikeable.
Here’s my advice: stop thinking like this ^. Nobody wants to be friends with someone like that.
100% agree, and OP doubled down on that too with:
OP I think the issue is you're probably coming off as an arrogant asshole or elitist. As per the above comment, nobody wants a friend like that.
And even more generally. It’s exhausting being around people constantly comparing each other. Regardless of the context.
Gotcha, and to be honest I hesitated a bit to even respond with that since I wasn’t sure it would add much to your struggle. I am glad to hear that you think you come across better in real interactions :)
Making friends is hard ! And keeping friendships is hard work, too. I think it will be hard for anyone here to really assess your situation and give meaningful advice. If it’s a possibility (I know for many it’s out of reach), I would strongly encourage you to find a therapist to talk about this kind of stuff with. That’s at least one ‘friend’ (ok, not really, but a support system :)) and someone who will hopefully be able to help you hone in on what friendship means to you and how to reach your goals.
The strategy that has always worked for me, has been to identify people who do things I like and respect, and offer them assistance in whatever it is they're doing. I use that as the opportunity to ask whether they'd like to get to know each other better, and more often than not that goes positively and I've kept those friendships close as time has gone on.
Biggest thing is just putting yourself aside for a bit. Trust that you are interesting. Trust in that and for a little while subsume yourself in what they're up to. Demonstrating the desire for friendship will often mean much, much more than merely saying it, and demonstrating that can be very easy. It just needs to be grounded, oriented around the other person, and not so much around yourself.
As an example, one of the best friends I've made, was someone I met at work a few years ago. I saw him be polite, attentive, and care deeply for the work he was doing. These are things I like, and respect. So I reached out to him and just straightforwardly said, I saw when you did x and thought that was some good shit, so if you're game I'd be up to get to know you better. He accepted, we are friends today.
As a counter example, I tried this with someone who did similar things, and he simply had no interest. Our other interests didn't overlap as much, he had plenty of friends already. All good. But, he remembered how straightforward I was, and what I had been straightforward about, and in the end became a solid work acquaintance. Through him I met some other folks, too.
That's been what's worked for me. Hope it's helpful. People gained an interest, after I showed an interest in them, is how the best of my friendships came about.
What kind of people do you admire and want to befriend?
Think of your meetups: the folks you want to hang out with, what were they like? The folks who wanted to be your friends that you weren't interested in, what were they like?
Have you read How To Make Friends and Influence People? If yes what do you like about the book?
Well, you know what they say, if everyone you walk it smells like poop, you should look at your own shoes. I don't think generic advice would be useful, nor is this is a high bandwidth enough communication channel.
If you have family (preferably around the same age, or detached in some way - your parents are probably too biased) or an acquaintance you can ask, be upfront with them, ask them if you could hang out, have dinner or something, and have them list out all the red flags and/or bad vibes they got from you.
Hey OP. Doing this kind of introspection, especially on a public forum, can be daunting and leave you feeling vulnerable. Kudos on being willing to use this as an exercise to work on yourself.
I can't say that I've personally found "intelligence" to be a fulfilling measure of what another person brings to the table. Aside from the question on how you quantify intelligence, people are so much more complex and have so much more to offer.
They may be funny, or thoughtful, or insightful, or really passionate about something. They may have different
perspectives, or lived a life that has left them with interesting stories to tell. Hell, they might just not be an asshole.
Being interested in learning about people goes a long way to building rapport.
Some random bits of advice:
It's hard to tell what the problem might be from just this post; you might be able to get better feedback from a mental health professional (or literally anyone) with whom you engage for a much more extended period of time. But here are some thoughts and questions.
You say you attempted to reach out; did you attempt to meet people through your interests? How?
This is going to sound brutal, but in my own experience, trying to meet people through "friend catalogues" has been a massive failure because most of the people I engaged with in this manner were--and this is perhaps no surprise--really bad at engaging with others and at being friends to others, even when I invested disproportionate effort into the relationship.
You say this, but it's not like friendship is an exclusive affair. What makes you think your friend "left"? What were the signs? What were the triggers? How long did it take for this presumptive process to take place?
Honestly, I think a lot of people are either faking this, or have trained that skill through faking it for so long. Everyone has their demons and almost everyone has to expend real effort to deal with strangers. It's no coincidence that so many want to drink themselves stupid or be under the influence of drugs in these situations.
Are you approaching these friendships with the requisite openness and humility? How are you in conversation? Do you hear what your friends have to say and pay attention to their mental and emotional needs? Do you leave space for them in the conversation? Do you attempt to stop talking or otherwise communicating when they are overwhelmed or exhausted?
What are your interests? Are they popular? Are they accessible to other people? Are you good at explaining them in a way that others can understand? Did you try to find commonalities between your interests and those of others?
What do you consider to be a friend? What would someone have to do for you to consider him or her to be your friend?
Friendships don't have to last long in order to be meaningful. This doesn't mean you should stop making an effort to sustain friendships long-term, it's just helpful to know that it's ok and normal to have short-term / low-stakes / situation-based friendships too. Taking the pressure off of trying to make every connection permanent can help you just enjoy that connection you have in the present moment.
Similarly, growing apart doesn't necessarily mean the end of the friendship. Of course, sometimes it does, and sometimes one of you will intentionally end the friendship for whatever reason. But it's pretty normal for friendships to evolve and fluctuate over time. And just as it's possible to grow apart, it's also possible to rekindle a connection later on.
I'm in my mid-thirties and have definitely found that it's more difficult to create and sustain friendships as we all get older and busier. But I've personally found it helpful to take the pressure off of trying to keep things "the same as they always were" or trying to make things "last forever". Instead, I'm focusing on enjoying, nourishing, and reciprocating moments of friendship in my life.
When I attend events based on my interests, I do make it a point to be open to making new connections, but I also try not to put pressure on that; I'll make an effort to initiate a connection (for example, chat about shared interests) but will let it grow organically from there.
One of the most challenging aspects of sustaining friendships is organizing in-person bonding time. It might feel like you're constantly initiating / inviting, and people may be unresponsive or flaky. I do my best not to take it personally when people are unresponsive or flaky-- they might be overwhelmed with responsibilities or they might just not be vibing with me at the moment-- and that's ok. When I send an invitation it'll usually include something like "Let me know by [date/time] if you want to join!" which is my way of setting a boundary and avoiding waiting on last-minute confirmations (unless it's a super casual meetup that we can both confirm last-minute). And I always try my best to ask in a way that won't make someone feel pressured.
On the other hand, if I'm the one who is being invited and I want to go but can't, I make it a point to try to reschedule instead of just declining, for example, "Oh I can't make it then, but would love to [do this activity with you on this date/time], does that work for you?" I've found that I also have to be honest with myself in terms of how much energy I have to connect at the moment, and I have to trust that friends will understand if I decline an invite.
Hope this helps! Good luck.
From Excellent Advice for Living by Kevin Kelly:
You come across as someone who thinks of themself as superior to others. This is why you are having trouble making friends.