After working in a store in one of the more gentrified neighborhoods in my city, I find the pity looks to be even more infuriating than being straight ignored. It's like, motherfuckers, sure I...
After working in a store in one of the more gentrified neighborhoods in my city, I find the pity looks to be even more infuriating than being straight ignored. It's like, motherfuckers, sure I work in a grocery store, but I'm also managing a department of 40+ people and responsible for $8+ million in annual sales myself--all while doing backbreaking physical work on top of it. I don't need your sad eyes, as if I'm too stupid to code or whatever, I just have no desire to be a code monkey chained to a desk. Been there, done that, decided it was bullshit. Let's see your soft ass come do my job half as well as I do.
It's frustrating. I know how mentally taxing jobs like coding are, and I'm not going to claim they're easy, but why is there zero respect given the other direction, only pity, condescencion, or outright blindness to our existence?
The worst was the time when a customer told me to my face that they were glad to be working on automating jobs like mine out of existence when I simply told him we were out of fucking cranberries due to a quality issue. It's like, sure, you might replace my clerks, but a damn robot can't fix issues with quality from a harvest.
All in all, I'm fine with the ignorance of my existence over the alternatives.
Unfortunately that's not really a tech-specific problem. At least in the U.S., there's this cultural perception of manual labor being relegated to those who don't work hard enough to succeed....
Unfortunately that's not really a tech-specific problem. At least in the U.S., there's this cultural perception of manual labor being relegated to those who don't work hard enough to succeed. Manual labor has historically been associated with dirty, risky, unhealthy areas of work, e.g. working in coal mines. Manual labor in general is typically not considered skilled labor, either, so entry requirements for the work tend to be low. Since uneducated workers will typically be restricted to jobs with low entry requirements, this means that manual labor is also associated with a lack of education. Finally, there's a religious component known as "prosperity gospel", where prosperity is believed to be "God's will", so lacking in financial prosperity would be considered a sign that you're not "Christian enough" to earn it.
So, in general, you're viewed as someone who likely is not educated, don't work hard, forced to get filthy, killing your own body, and aren't accepted by the Christian god.
That being said, it probably does get worse with tech guys. Now you have to add onto this mess the elitism in the tech industry. These elitists typically fall under one of two categories:
A bunch of libertarian white men who grew up in privileged environments and despite being handed every opportunity to them, believe in the ridiculous notion that success is determined solely by whether or not you work hard.
Insecure men who grew up feeling inadequate, feel (rightly or not) like their peers constantly walked all over them, discovered programming, found some sense of confidence in having a hobby that makes them (rightly or not) feel like they're smarter than those peers and pays them a lot of money, and now lash out at anyone who they (rightly or not) associate with being "like" those old peers of theirs.
Take that manual labor prejudice and sprinkle some tech industry elitism on it and you've got the perfect shit personality sandwich to much on.
Edit
For the record, I'm a programmer (anyone who has seen any of my various posts from ~comp knows this). I say all of this given my own perception of other peoples' behavior, particularly given my many online interactions, the second-hand experiences of so many people, and one guy in a college class who went ballistic one time because he was a C elitist who looked down on the rest of the class. I've been fortunate enough to not run into these kinds of people in the tech community in my area, so this could be primarily a large metropolitan area thing, but I could also just not be running into them. I just want any readers to be aware that I'm not prejudiced against the tech industry or anything silly like that and that I'm also not oblivious to this kind of elitism existing :)
That just sounds like simple economics, there are a lot of people available to do those jobs and they require minimal training most of the time so the wages are low. If you wanted to be paid more...
And asking for a higher minimum wage, apparently that's beyond the pale and means I'm lazy. I should have just learned to code!
That just sounds like simple economics, there are a lot of people available to do those jobs and they require minimal training most of the time so the wages are low. If you wanted to be paid more you should have picked a job that has less supply. Why would a business pay someone more when they could get someone else to do the same job just as well for less.
There should probably be some kind of UBI system that allows people to just quit their job if it pays too little and allow them to train for something better. That would result in almost all of the menial jobs being fully automated instantly but for the ones that are hard to automate and are undesirable the wages will go up hugely because they need the job done and the workers can afford to just leave.
Didn't say that. Simply pointed out that businesses will pay the least they can to obtain the same level of quality. If they didn't a business that does will take over. If two people have the same...
Do you think everyone in these jobs doesn't have education or doesn't want something better?
Didn't say that. Simply pointed out that businesses will pay the least they can to obtain the same level of quality. If they didn't a business that does will take over. If two people have the same skill and one is asking for less than the one who chooses less wins.
I'm not so sure that raising the minimum wage is such a good idea because as soon as you push the price of a minimum wage worker above the cost of maintaining a machine then almost all low skill jobs will be automated right away.
many, many moons ago when I worked overnight building maintenance at a small casino/event venue, we'd kick around the phrase "no one notices us if we're doing our job right." it never really...
many, many moons ago when I worked overnight building maintenance at a small casino/event venue, we'd kick around the phrase "no one notices us if we're doing our job right." it never really bothered me. there were a couple of downright rude people in those two years, now that I think about it, but it was more often just being unacknowledged; part of the scenery.
an interesting side-effect I began to notice is that anyone/everyone from patrons to fellow employees (including security) would openly discuss many surprisingly sensitive or private topics while I was invisibly in the background going about my tasks. cliché as it is, we were "the eyes and ears of [that] institution, my friend."
I notice that type of worker these days, and will usually offer a smile or "hey."
This is a barrier I really noticed living in a more developed country. At my office in Canada, the cleaning staff was basically invisible. You would only see them if you were in well after hours....
This is a barrier I really noticed living in a more developed country. At my office in Canada, the cleaning staff was basically invisible. You would only see them if you were in well after hours. Where I am now, I know all the staff, most of their kids, my regular gym buddy is one of the maintenance guys. Especially when you see how fast things can fall apart in a tropical climate, you really gain an appreciation for what they do.
I’m guilty of avoiding service employees when I’m shopping, but I’m pretty sure it’s because I’m awkward and avoid all strangers. I’ll have to keep this in mind though, because I’d hate for...
I’m guilty of avoiding service employees when I’m shopping, but I’m pretty sure it’s because I’m awkward and avoid all strangers. I’ll have to keep this in mind though, because I’d hate for someone to think I was looking down on them because they worked a service job. Anyone on Tildes have experience on either side of this?
I always smile and wave the cleaning lady into my office, especially when I am on a call. She pretty much ignores me. Now I am wondering if that is just the way she is, or if her job made her that...
I always smile and wave the cleaning lady into my office, especially when I am on a call. She pretty much ignores me. Now I am wondering if that is just the way she is, or if her job made her that way.
I've personally found the cash register folks to be much more ready with a smile.
After working in a store in one of the more gentrified neighborhoods in my city, I find the pity looks to be even more infuriating than being straight ignored. It's like, motherfuckers, sure I work in a grocery store, but I'm also managing a department of 40+ people and responsible for $8+ million in annual sales myself--all while doing backbreaking physical work on top of it. I don't need your sad eyes, as if I'm too stupid to code or whatever, I just have no desire to be a code monkey chained to a desk. Been there, done that, decided it was bullshit. Let's see your soft ass come do my job half as well as I do.
It's frustrating. I know how mentally taxing jobs like coding are, and I'm not going to claim they're easy, but why is there zero respect given the other direction, only pity, condescencion, or outright blindness to our existence?
The worst was the time when a customer told me to my face that they were glad to be working on automating jobs like mine out of existence when I simply told him we were out of fucking cranberries due to a quality issue. It's like, sure, you might replace my clerks, but a damn robot can't fix issues with quality from a harvest.
All in all, I'm fine with the ignorance of my existence over the alternatives.
Unfortunately that's not really a tech-specific problem. At least in the U.S., there's this cultural perception of manual labor being relegated to those who don't work hard enough to succeed. Manual labor has historically been associated with dirty, risky, unhealthy areas of work, e.g. working in coal mines. Manual labor in general is typically not considered skilled labor, either, so entry requirements for the work tend to be low. Since uneducated workers will typically be restricted to jobs with low entry requirements, this means that manual labor is also associated with a lack of education. Finally, there's a religious component known as "prosperity gospel", where prosperity is believed to be "God's will", so lacking in financial prosperity would be considered a sign that you're not "Christian enough" to earn it.
So, in general, you're viewed as someone who likely is not educated, don't work hard, forced to get filthy, killing your own body, and aren't accepted by the Christian god.
That being said, it probably does get worse with tech guys. Now you have to add onto this mess the elitism in the tech industry. These elitists typically fall under one of two categories:
Take that manual labor prejudice and sprinkle some tech industry elitism on it and you've got the perfect shit personality sandwich to much on.
Edit
For the record, I'm a programmer (anyone who has seen any of my various posts from ~comp knows this). I say all of this given my own perception of other peoples' behavior, particularly given my many online interactions, the second-hand experiences of so many people, and one guy in a college class who went ballistic one time because he was a C elitist who looked down on the rest of the class. I've been fortunate enough to not run into these kinds of people in the tech community in my area, so this could be primarily a large metropolitan area thing, but I could also just not be running into them. I just want any readers to be aware that I'm not prejudiced against the tech industry or anything silly like that and that I'm also not oblivious to this kind of elitism existing :)
That just sounds like simple economics, there are a lot of people available to do those jobs and they require minimal training most of the time so the wages are low. If you wanted to be paid more you should have picked a job that has less supply. Why would a business pay someone more when they could get someone else to do the same job just as well for less.
There should probably be some kind of UBI system that allows people to just quit their job if it pays too little and allow them to train for something better. That would result in almost all of the menial jobs being fully automated instantly but for the ones that are hard to automate and are undesirable the wages will go up hugely because they need the job done and the workers can afford to just leave.
Didn't say that. Simply pointed out that businesses will pay the least they can to obtain the same level of quality. If they didn't a business that does will take over. If two people have the same skill and one is asking for less than the one who chooses less wins.
I'm not so sure that raising the minimum wage is such a good idea because as soon as you push the price of a minimum wage worker above the cost of maintaining a machine then almost all low skill jobs will be automated right away.
many, many moons ago when I worked overnight building maintenance at a small casino/event venue, we'd kick around the phrase "no one notices us if we're doing our job right." it never really bothered me. there were a couple of downright rude people in those two years, now that I think about it, but it was more often just being unacknowledged; part of the scenery.
an interesting side-effect I began to notice is that anyone/everyone from patrons to fellow employees (including security) would openly discuss many surprisingly sensitive or private topics while I was invisibly in the background going about my tasks. cliché as it is, we were "the eyes and ears of [that] institution, my friend."
I notice that type of worker these days, and will usually offer a smile or "hey."
[edit: clarification]
This is a barrier I really noticed living in a more developed country. At my office in Canada, the cleaning staff was basically invisible. You would only see them if you were in well after hours. Where I am now, I know all the staff, most of their kids, my regular gym buddy is one of the maintenance guys. Especially when you see how fast things can fall apart in a tropical climate, you really gain an appreciation for what they do.
I’m guilty of avoiding service employees when I’m shopping, but I’m pretty sure it’s because I’m awkward and avoid all strangers. I’ll have to keep this in mind though, because I’d hate for someone to think I was looking down on them because they worked a service job. Anyone on Tildes have experience on either side of this?
Sometimes I wish to avoid them because they can think I can think I'm better than they are.
I always smile and wave the cleaning lady into my office, especially when I am on a call. She pretty much ignores me. Now I am wondering if that is just the way she is, or if her job made her that way.
I've personally found the cash register folks to be much more ready with a smile.