29 votes

Topic deleted by author

32 comments

  1. [19]
    cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    This is an incredibly long article about Ky Dickens' misinformation riddled podcast, and is worth the read... but here's the meat of it for those who just want to know why "facilitated...
    • Exemplary

    This is an incredibly long article about Ky Dickens' misinformation riddled podcast, and is worth the read... but here's the meat of it for those who just want to know why "facilitated communication" has been discredited, the results have nothing to do with "telepathy", and Dickens is full of shit.

    One of the American facilitators who used the practice in decades past was Janyce Boynton, who was trained to use it in 1992.

    I interviewed her over email for my piece on spelling that I did back in October, but the best recollection of her experience comes from a journal article that she published in 2012.

    In that article, she documented her facilitating with a student named Betsy Wheaton, whose story was later captured in the Frontline documentary “Prisoners of Silence.”

    “I passionately believed that, as a facilitator, I could help one of my students break free from her autistic, nonverbal existence,” she explained in the article.

    She began to notice that Wheaton was acting out more than normal and even getting violent. She was horrified when Wheaton confirmed her fears by typing out accusations towards her family. She said they were sexually abusing her.

    The accusations also horrified the local community. Wheaton was taken away from her family by the local authorities.

    But her family was puzzled by the accusations that she had typed out. They hired a specialist named Dr. Howard Shane of Boston Children’s Hospital to try to debunk the messages Betsy had been writing.

    He devised what’s called a “double-blind” exam to test the authenticity of the messages.

    Wheaton and her facilitator would be shown a series of objects. When they were shown different objects, we could see if Betsy, with the aid of her facilitator, would type out the picture she saw or the one her facilitator saw.

    When Boynton participated in the test, she realized she couldn’t get the answers right when she didn’t see the object that the evaluator showed only to Wheaton. Her faith in the entire process was shattered. She wrote in her journal article:

    I felt such devastation, panic, pain, loneliness—a myriad of emotions difficult to put into words. The whole [Facilitated Communication] thing unraveled for me that day, and I did not have an explanation for any of it. Almost immediately, I started rationalizing away the truth. Though it was not true, I went away from the testing telling myself that the situation had been hostile, the evaluator had been hostile, everyone had turned against me. Incredibly, I even tried facilitating with the child in the week or two after the testing, resulting in more outrageous and false allegations. The parents, understandably, asked that I no longer work with the child. I felt tremendous loss.

    The Wheatons were reunited and Boynton went from a staunch believer in facilitated communication to an ardent critic.

    The test that Shane used became commonplace. In dozens of studies, facilitators and their clients failed it.

    Without going into detail, Dickens does mention that there were real scandals with facilitated communication in the 1990s. But she chalks the whole thing up to poor training of facilitators.

    “Thanks to these awful cases that really uprooted lives, facilitated communication took the blame, not the facilitators,” she laments in Episode 8.

    What Dickens doesn’t tell the audience is that to this day, there has not been one study of facilitated communication that has passed the simple double-blind test devised by Shane.

    The reason, say critics, is that facilitated communication works through something called the ideomotor effect, a psychological process where people involuntarily move their bodies in response to their thoughts. The effect could explain not only why facilitators were unwittingly authoring these messages but also how people operate devices like Ouija boards.

    This is an important point. In my journey through this world, I found few claims that anyone is using these communication processes cynically. Everyone from therapists and facilitators to parents and loved ones really believe that these techniques help nonverbal individuals authentically communicate.

    There is no cynicism required because what the studies of facilitated communication ultimately proved was that the facilitators were subconsciously influencing their clients, just like some people have always believed that Ouija boards or dousing rods work.

    And here is the relevant (and pretty conclusive) section of the Wikipedia article:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facilitated_communication#Blind_testing

    By 2005, more than 50 controlled studies and blind tests had been conducted, in addition to numerous controlled tests conducted in legal cases. The studies consistently showed "without a doubt" that the messages obtained through facilitated communication were controlled by the facilitators and not their communication partners.

    The vast majority of evidence now indicates that facilitated communication is not scientifically valid. However, this information has not stopped many individuals from using this technique under various circumstances and furthermore, advocating for its effectiveness. The overwhelming majority of studies conducted on the efficacy of this technique has revealed that any "positive" results indicating that facilitated communication has worked can be attributed to the facilitators themselves. Be it the facilitator attributing their own beliefs and views onto the individual, or creating a pseudo-personality for the disabled individual based on their previous encounters with them, it is clear that the facilitator is really the one doing all the communicating.

    The American Psychological Association (APA) issued a statement in 1994 that there was "no scientifically demonstrated support for its efficacy." Finally, even further defining facilitated communication as a pseudoscience, the APA issued a statement indicating that facilitated communication studies have repeatedly demonstrated that it is not a scientifically valid technique and that it is a controversial and unproved communicative procedure with no scientifically demonstrated support for its efficacy.

    48 votes
    1. [19]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [18]
        cfabbro
        Link Parent
        Prego. ;)

        Prego. ;)

        7 votes
        1. [17]
          DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          I did not read this as needing translation at first and it was a whole moment.

          I did not read this as needing translation at first and it was a whole moment.

          6 votes
          1. [16]
            cfabbro
            Link Parent
            Hah, yeah I am not in the habit of insulting pregnant people, if that's what you initially thought. :P

            Hah, yeah I am not in the habit of insulting pregnant people, if that's what you initially thought. :P

            3 votes
            1. [15]
              DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              I mean given it was you I read it in a friendly tone 😅 I think I'm just avoiding the horror topic (this one) right now.

              I mean given it was you I read it in a friendly tone 😅

              I think I'm just avoiding the horror topic (this one) right now.

              4 votes
              1. [14]
                cfabbro
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                Yeah, wanting to avoid thinking about it any further is totally understandable. Do yourself a favor and DO NOT google the podcast name and visit any of the reddit posts on it. My faith in humanity...

                Yeah, wanting to avoid thinking about it any further is totally understandable. Do yourself a favor and DO NOT google the podcast name and visit any of the reddit posts on it. My faith in humanity took a massive hit after doing that, and further ingrained my already deep-seated hatred of Spotify for promoting this genuinely harmful shit. :(

                7 votes
                1. [13]
                  DefinitelyNotAFae
                  Link Parent
                  I work with so many neurodivergent students and I'm gonna have to know about this eventually just to address the misconceptions if nothing else but UGH. AND Bringing back a new child abuse panic...

                  I work with so many neurodivergent students and I'm gonna have to know about this eventually just to address the misconceptions if nothing else but UGH.

                  AND Bringing back a new child abuse panic ala the Satanic Panic is not on my 2025 bingo

                  8 votes
                  1. [12]
                    cfabbro
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    The 'Blind testing' section of the Wikipedia article I linked to is the most sterile way to give yourself some ammunition to push back on the concept that won't break a chunk off your soul in the...

                    The 'Blind testing' section of the Wikipedia article I linked to is the most sterile way to give yourself some ammunition to push back on the concept that won't break a chunk off your soul in the process. But stray into the other sections at your own peril. It's fucking depressing. :(

                    7 votes
                    1. [11]
                      DefinitelyNotAFae
                      Link Parent
                      ranting It's been DENOUNCED SINCE 1994 AND WE ARE IN THE YEAR OF SOMEONE'S LORD 2024 AND WE ARE STILL DEALING WITH THIS. WHAT IN THE INDIGO CHILD NONSENSE IS THIS FUCKERY. SNAKE OIL WOULD BE LESS...
                      ranting

                      It's been DENOUNCED SINCE 1994 AND WE ARE IN THE YEAR OF SOMEONE'S LORD 2024 AND WE ARE STILL DEALING WITH THIS. WHAT IN THE INDIGO CHILD NONSENSE IS THIS FUCKERY. SNAKE OIL WOULD BE LESS HARMFUL EXCEPT TO THE SNAKES.

                      WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DETERMINED TO LISTEN TO EVERYONE EXCEPT A DOCTOR? PROBABLY BECAUSE THE DOCTOR DOESN'T GIVE THEM PRETTY PROMISES ABOUT MAGIC FUTURE CURES AND SPECIAL ABILITIES AND ALSO TELLS THEM THAT THEIR CHILD IS SEPARATE PERSON.

                      CAN WE JUST NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AUTISTIC KIDS AND LET THEM EXIST.

                      Ok I'm done. That was just from reading the wiki part you linked. Hell you quoted most of it. Still.

                      8 votes
                      1. [10]
                        cfabbro
                        (edited )
                        Link Parent
                        Yeah, I probably should have warned you it's still not the most pleasant read, even as sterilized as the wikipedia editors have made it. Sorry about that. I hate this timeline so so much. Growing...

                        Yeah, I probably should have warned you it's still not the most pleasant read, even as sterilized as the wikipedia editors have made it. Sorry about that.

                        I hate this timeline so so much. Growing up I always imagined Star Trek: The Next Generation as being our future, but now I just can't see anything remotely close to it ever coming to fruition. :(

                        9 votes
                        1. [10]
                          Comment deleted by author
                          Link Parent
                          1. [8]
                            cfabbro
                            Link Parent
                            The thought of Elon Musk potentially being our timeline's Dr. Zefram Cochrane made me throw up in my mouth a bit. :/

                            The thought of Elon Musk potentially being our timeline's Dr. Zefram Cochrane made me throw up in my mouth a bit. :/

                            6 votes
                            1. [5]
                              Comment deleted by author
                              Link Parent
                              1. [4]
                                cfabbro
                                Link Parent
                                What is this "Star Trek: Discovery" you speak of? Is it from your alternate dimension? I've never heard of it. On my world they stopped making shows after Voyager.

                                What is this "Star Trek: Discovery" you speak of? Is it from your alternate dimension? I've never heard of it. On my world they stopped making shows after Voyager.

                                6 votes
                                1. [2]
                                  NoblePath
                                  (edited )
                                  Link Parent
                                  I call baloney on your living in the dark timeline if post Voyager star trek doesn’t exist in yours. Which means it’s your moral duty to transport the rest of us. edit: a word

                                  I call baloney on your living in the dark timeline if post Voyager star trek doesn’t exist in yours.

                                  Which means it’s your moral duty to transport the rest of us.

                                  edit: a word

                                  5 votes
                                  1. cfabbro
                                    (edited )
                                    Link Parent
                                    I cannae do it, captain! The temporal distortion is too unstable! Oh, what's that? Our signal... is... breaking up... we're going to... lose the... connection? What a... shame! Have fun with your...

                                    I cannae do it, captain! The temporal distortion is too unstable! Oh, what's that? Our signal... is... breaking up... we're going to... lose the... connection? What a... shame! Have fun with your Picard, I hear he's a real upbeat, optimistic fellow these days. Star Trek on your side of the rift sounds like it's in good hands though, that Alex Kurtzman fellow clearly cares a lot about Starfleet's core values and Roddenberry's vision.

                                    Thank God that's over with. I was worried we might pollute our timeline with the stream of pure evil pouring out of theirs. Wait, what do you mean we're still transmitting!? Shut it off! Pull the cables! <static sounds>

                                    6 votes
                            2. [3]
                              Plik
                              Link Parent
                              Sweet baby jesus plz no /noise

                              Sweet baby jesus plz no

                              /noise

                              2 votes
                              1. [2]
                                HeroesJourneyMadness
                                Link Parent
                                Thank you guys for hijacking the thread to a fun topic.

                                Thank you guys for hijacking the thread to a fun topic.

                                4 votes
                                1. Plik
                                  Link Parent
                                  Thanks for reminding me of this sub-thread, I would have missed the additional entertaining comments.

                                  Thanks for reminding me of this sub-thread, I would have missed the additional entertaining comments.

                                  3 votes
                          2. Omnicrola
                            Link Parent
                            I still hold on to a bit of optimism due to the Trek timeline having some pretty terrible things in it's past. So between now and "then" (depending where you want to drive the start of the Trek...

                            I still hold on to a bit of optimism due to the Trek timeline having some pretty terrible things in it's past. So between now and "then" (depending where you want to drive the start of the Trek universe) we have:

                            • the Bell riots and associated extreme income inequality
                            • WWIII - billions dead
                            • the eugenics war

                            This are just the ones off the top of my head. It doesn't mean the current time isn't shitty, but I have hope we as a species will eventually get it right.

                            Edit: scratch that first one, the Bell riots happened in August of 2024.

                            3 votes
  2. [6]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. Minori
      Link Parent
      Podcasts have started replacing old AM shock jockey radio. Real whack jobs and cranks are unfortunately getting their messages out to millions of people open to "alternative" thoughts and ideas...

      Podcasts have started replacing old AM shock jockey radio. Real whack jobs and cranks are unfortunately getting their messages out to millions of people open to "alternative" thoughts and ideas that break with institutional consensus. It's another sign of rising populism with mass media via the internet.

      8 votes
    2. [4]
      lou
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I listened to Serial. I did not feel that the podcast argued for anyone's innocence. It argued that there was some weakness in the process that warranted a second look. At least that was the...

      I listened to Serial. I did not feel that the podcast argued for anyone's innocence. It argued that there was some weakness in the process that warranted a second look. At least that was the impression I got as a listener, largely because it explicit told me that. Repeatedly.

      The entire narrative felt very skeptical of its own biases and claims, providing ample commentary that continuously reinforced the speculative and provisory nature of their own findings and opinions.

      I listened to Serial attentively and in full. By the end, I had no conviction of Adnan Syed's innocence. There was no push whatsoever for me to believe his innocence. Serial is a narrative of skepticism and self doubt. Anyone leaving it sure that Syed was innocent missed the point entirely.

      Is a podcast responsible for the consequences of gross and harmful misinterpretation? To a certain extent, it is. They willingly exposed a sensitive event, forcing peope to relive a traumatic experience. To that measure, the entirety of true crime would be indicted. That measure would also deem large swaths of investigative journalism as completely immoral.

      Maybe they should be indicted as it is nearly impossible for true crime to avoid causing suffering. But that is another degree of complexity and responsibility that is not quite the one mentioned here.

      If Serial is guilty of misconduct, the entirety of investigative journalism is too. It doesn't make sense to single it out for simply following all the same guidelines of investigative journalism as a whole.

      Maybe we should question true crime and investigative journalism, but there are better places to start than a very uncharitable reading of a popular podcast.

      5 votes
      1. [4]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [2]
          lou
          Link Parent
          It kinda sounds like you shouldn't consume true crime, as it doesn't bring anything positive for you. I don't really wish to discuss Serial any longer, as it would be like talking about the...

          It kinda sounds like you shouldn't consume true crime, as it doesn't bring anything positive for you.

          I don't really wish to discuss Serial any longer, as it would be like talking about the virtues of wine to someone who doesn't drink.

          It's perfectly fine to not drink and also to dislike true crime ;)

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. lou
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              You did not annoy me in the slightest. Sometimes we argue passionately on Tildes but that doesn't mean that we're annoyed. When something truly annoys me I tend to not answer at all! Have a great...

              You did not annoy me in the slightest. Sometimes we argue passionately on Tildes but that doesn't mean that we're annoyed. When something truly annoys me I tend to not answer at all!

              Have a great day ;)

              4 votes
        2. GenuinelyCrooked
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Isn't there genuine doubt over whether or not Syed is guilty? This article is pretty recent and it concludes by mentioning some important evidence against his guiltl*. His conviction has been...

          Isn't there genuine doubt over whether or not Syed is guilty? This article is pretty recent and it concludes by mentioning some important evidence against his guiltl*. His conviction has been overturned and reinstated, but I don't see anything about new, stronger evidence for his guilt. Does it change your opinion of Serial if the scrutiny that it brought to the case resulted in an innocent man being freed rather an a guilty one being exonerated?

          1 vote
  3. teaearlgraycold
    Link
    I will refuse to believe anything supernatural until I can use it to make money on the stock market. I've seen how enough magic tricks work to maintain skepticism even in the face of shocking...

    Michael, a colleague of Dickens who she describes as a strict materialist — someone who only believes in the material world and not anything spiritual or religious — is blown away.

    “After seeing this, I can’t — it’s hard for me to not believe this is authentic. I’m looking at everything. I’m watching her. I’m watching the mom. I’m watching everything. And from me, my perspective, it’s real,” he tells the audience.

    I will refuse to believe anything supernatural until I can use it to make money on the stock market. I've seen how enough magic tricks work to maintain skepticism even in the face of shocking information. But if I can beat trading algorithms and expert traders using "magic", it's as real as anything else.

    12 votes
  4. bonsai_angel
    Link
    This podcast made me want to go back to being a militant atheist

    This podcast made me want to go back to being a militant atheist

    6 votes
  5. [6]
    BeanBurrito
    Link
    I can't remember the term, but a few years ago mothers with children who were born with problems were call them by a new term with the word of a color in it, I think. Crimson children or something...

    I can't remember the term, but a few years ago mothers with children who were born with problems were call them by a new term with the word of a color in it, I think. Crimson children or something like that.

    2 votes
    1. [5]
      cfabbro
      Link Parent
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children
      7 votes
      1. [2]
        Minori
        Link Parent
        This is just the New Age equivalent of medieval fairy and goblin babies isn't it?

        This is just the New Age equivalent of medieval fairy and goblin babies isn't it?

        8 votes
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          Ok the comparison is unfair, professionally speaking, but yes basically. Changelings got blamed for a lot that we had nothing to do with. Indigo is just...╮(╯_╰)╭

          Ok the comparison is unfair, professionally speaking, but yes basically. Changelings got blamed for a lot that we had nothing to do with. Indigo is just...╮⁠(⁠╯⁠_⁠╰⁠)⁠╭

          6 votes
      2. DefinitelyNotAFae
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Just because I referenced them in my rant... /J

        Just because I referenced them in my rant...

        /J

        2 votes
      3. BeanBurrito
        Link Parent
        That is it! I kept thinking "purple children" but it did not sound right. It seems like the telepathy tapes is a similar thing.

        That is it! I kept thinking "purple children" but it did not sound right. It seems like the telepathy tapes is a similar thing.

        2 votes