So what happened? Revisiting the superhero and box office questions.
Nearly two years ago, I made a post titled "On the superhero question" and three years ago I made a retrospective on the box office since theaters closed in 2020.
So I figured it was time for an update.
Re-reading those posts makes me realize how optimistic the theatrical landscape seemed in the wake of Barbenheimer. I don't think I was alone in that; I think the industry felt optimism from that cultural moment as well. That same year was when superhero films imploded, so there was this idea that audiences wanted "real" films. They wanted films by "real" directors, and now there was some discernment from audiences. Grouping both Barbie and Mario, it spoke to the value that other IP now has.
The landscape became much more depressing in 2024. It seems like the idea of audiences flocking to other types of films did not happen. After consistent growth, the box office fell in 2024 from 2023. I remember the panic that the industry felt after both The Fall Guy and Furiosa: A Mad Max Story flopped at the box office. But Inside Out 2, Deadpool and Wolverine breaking out balanced out those disappointments.
Speaking of Deadpool and Wolverine, I remember my prediction of the film being that it would be the lowest-grossing of the Deadpool franchise. Not only that, but I predicted that Joker 2 would outgross it, and we all know how that played out.
Because Deadpool and Wolverine did so well, it delayed the narrative that had been forming throughout 2023, the "superhero fatigue" narrative. It wasn't until now that the narrative is back, and it seems like Deadpool and Wolverine was more of an exception. The film needed 20 years of nostalgia to power it to those numbers. Something under-discussed about D&W's performance is that it was more domestic-heavy than a lot of billion-dollar MCU films (47% DOM split when many of them were in the 30% range throughout the 2010s). Spider-Man: No Way Home also had a split in the 40s, which perhaps was an omen for what was to come.
There were other overperformers throughout 2024, don't get me wrong. Wicked, making over 400M DOM and 700M WW, was not something people were expecting early on. Mufasa: The Lion King still made over 700M WW despite a mediocre reception and a "why would you make this?" issue. But there was certainly a depth issue. Fewer films hit the 100M DOM mark in 2024 than in 2023, and the rest of the top 100 films made less in 2024 than in 2023. It did feel like many films underperformed or did not reach their full potential, which would have helped out the overall box office. Many horror films like Abigail, Night Swim, MaXXXine, could have done better but didn't. Gladiator II would have likely done better if it had been better received. Twisters and Beetlejuice Beetlejuice did well, but didn't get the late legs that would have driven it to 300M totals. Bad Boys: Ride or Die decreased from the previous film. Red One and Bob Marley: One Love didn't crawl past the 100M DOM mark. Little things like that that add up.
So how's 2025 looking so far?
In short, not great. We're currently lagging behind 2024 during the same calendar year. Inside Out 2 and Deadpool and Wolverine contributed over 600M DOM each, while our highest-grossing film this year so far is still A Minecraft Movie, and that didn't even hit 500M DOM (it probably would have if word of mouth wasn't horrendous). We do have three big films left for the year: Zootopia 2, Wicked: For Good, and Avatar: Ash and Fire. All three are potential 500M DOM grossers, although Avatar will be making a majority of its money in the 2026 calendar year. There are also smaller-scale studio films hoping to break out, such as The Running Man, Tron: Ares, and Predator: Badlands.
The issue, though, is that many of these films can underperform, and that's been a common theme this past year. The well-received Thunderbolts could not get in the black, and the much-anticipated Fantastic Four is going to barely break even theatrically. Even Superman, with its great legs, will end up below what many superhero films did during the peak, even mediocre or lesser-known superheroes. It does seem like the box office will continue to collapse since nothing is filling that Disney-sized void. Outside of superhero films, Lilo and Stitch didn't perform as well as it could have and neither did Minecraft.
So it's kind of grim. I mean, in reality, movie-going reached its peak in 2002. It has been declining in admissions ever since. So it was perhaps naive to think that the growth we experienced from 2021 to 2023 would continue. But it really seems like the domestic box office will continue to decline, and the international box office has collapsed for a lot of Hollywood films, specifically comic book films. So we're entering a very different landscape, a much more muted world for films from now on. And it will likely continue to shrink.
Now markets shift, they can shift back up. The international market can be brought up again (Superhero movies used to always play better with domestic audiences). But I'm certainly not as optimistic as I once was.
Awesome writeup! I don't follow the numbers of Hollywood as close as you, but I can definitely attest to the same impression that 2024 and 2025 aren't nearly up to the same level as 2023. Trends in moviegoing is probably impossible to predict, as at the end of the day, it simply comes down to good films being released. Barbenheimer was a perfect storm that couldn't be planned, though I am sure the next Nolan film will do well again.
With regards to world ticket numbers, I don't think the Trump effect can be ruled out there either. There is a general trend in Europe at least with people wanting to move away from American products, and there are some things brewing when it comes to cultural products as well. There is an increased awareness that we are also in the midst of a cultural war on values, and that of course includes movies as well. Danish films have been way above average this year for example, also in ticket sales as far as I can tell. However, it is totally possible that all that is within a very small cultural "elite" circle of people who are actively trying to focus more on non-American entertainment. I don't see any massive upcoming buycut of the next Hollywood blockbuster.
Thanks for the great write up. I read your other two posts and I don't know why I find this type of stuff so fascinating. Maybe because my work is completely unrelated.
Do you have an opinion on the biggest reason for this downturn or is it impossible to isolate it to a main cause and just say it's all of it?
Domestically, joblessness, cost of living and worries about recession are the main cause in my opinion. Not an expert, etc. I'm not saying anything new. I just think all of the above is finally biting. I'm relatively well off and enjoy going to the movies, but it's just such an easy way to save money that I almost never go anymore. It's the same for anyone I know with one exception (he's an actor and obsessed with cinema).
Overall I would say TikTok. I think that’s sucked up the attention economy even from other entertainment outlets such as video games and TV. People will scroll for the equivalent length of two or three movies and that’s their entertainment.
China specifically became a non-factor in the worldwide box office for Hollywood films. They used Hollywood to build their own infrastructure and then basically abandoned them in favor of home grown films. That’s going to deflate a lot of numbers from now on (to give an example the number of billion dollar films decreases quite a bit when you ignore the grosses from China).
I think the price of moviegoing probably has affected it but because there’s a smaller pool of people going theaters have to milk them for all they got. In the past during economic downturns movies actually got a boost or were unaffected (2008 and The Great Depression are proof of this) because people wanted escapism and that was the cheapest way to leave the house. Movie-going is still cheaper than say going to a concert or other outings. But the difference now is that people would rather scroll on their phones for free than go out and spend however many dollars and however many hours to watch one movie and end up still using their phone in the theater.
Hmm, as someone who has never used or installed tiktok, I hadn't even considered that but it definitely makes sense. Apparently some crazy people watch movies sliced up to clips on tiktok, which seems to me like the worst possible way to watch a movie. Maybe I'm just old, but my mother in law now also lives on tiktok.
Sure feels like we would solve a lot of issues if we just blank banned social media
I’ve said this before but TikTok is the most influential social media platform I’ve lived through. It’s basically the game from Ready Player One, you can make money off of it buy stuff on it, listen to music on it. You technically don’t ever have to leave the app.
My 83 year old grandma used it daily on her iPad, it was one of the last things she did before passing away.
Do you think people are figuring out where to watch stuff after the movie theater run? I finally went to the movies this week to see Superman (which I LOVED), but that was a mix of being a life long comic book fan and not subscribing to HBO Max. We don't do Disney+ either, but are more likely to do a month than with HBO Max, so after trying to decide to see Superman or Fantastic Four, I finally went with Superman.
I also think the general way the US is ticking off the rest of the world has to play some sort of factor. I've heard from a lot of people how annoyed at the US Canadians are (justifiably so), so I don't know that some amount of boycott, even more of a grassroots thing versus a majorly organized boycott, isn't plausible.
Yeah that’s also a thing where after the pandemic theatrical windows became shorter. You can now watch a movie at home that was in theaters two months after it premiered. There used to be a much longer period of time between a theatrical release and a home video release. The HBOMAX day and date thing they did back in 2021 and Disney+’s efforts to get movies on the streaming service as quick as possible in 2021 and 2022 conditioned audiences to wait.
Studios have been attempting to reverse that by waiting. Disney has been really good about giving the films more breathing room before putting them on Disney+. But there’s certainly an audience that’s too accustomed to that that will likely never return.
Thats insane, so like, isn’t this the same issue with the video game industry?
What does the US even export besides entertainment?
If this was a joke, cool! If it was a serious question, though, the US is the world's third-largest exporter. America exports a ton of industrial inputs (chemicals, specialty metallurgies, etc etc etc), machinery, and all kinds of stuff really.
I think it was a play on our saying that our biggest export is culture
The biggest TikTokers and streamers are still largely American. People like Charlie D’amelio, Addison Rae, Asmongold, and iShowSpeed.
Harmony Korine discussed this last year, he’s the writer and director of Spring Breakers (2013) and The Beach Bum (2019). He said:
People were making fun of him but I understood what he meant. Movies were at one point the center of American culture but now it’s these internet guys. I’ve seen videos of Speed where there are huge crowds around the world watching him.
As a fairly infrequent movie goer, all I can really chime in on is how uninteresting most movies seem to me anymore. I often pay attention to Nolan films because they tend to be worth a watch. But of the three films I've seen in theatre this year (Superman, 28 years later, I know what you did last summer) I don't know that any of them were worth the trip. Definitely not I know what you did last summer, that was hot garbage. Even Superman, while good, was a very safe movie.
So I dunno. I watched Barbie and Oppenheimer in theaters and didn't have any regrets. I realize looking back it's easy to mentally gloss over the past losers we've seen, but like, where are today's Jurassic Park, Alien, etc, breaking new ground. Interstellar was the last time I really got that epic sense of wonder from a film that made me reminiscent of some of the great classics.
Anymore, I'm happy to watch classics from the Golden age of Hollywood, since there are still great classics I haven't seen. And at $22/ticket with $8 sodas, I'll save a ton watching classics at home and free up my entertainment budget for things that matter, like pastries.
You did so well that I wanted to comment and thank you. I don't have anything to add.