While I hate were the story has gone, and feel like it has ruined Star Wars. I'll still end up going to see it just so I can say I'm done with this Star Wars Saga. Cause after this I know I'm not...
While I hate were the story has gone, and feel like it has ruined Star Wars. I'll still end up going to see it just so I can say I'm done with this Star Wars Saga. Cause after this I know I'm not going to see another Star Wars movie in theaters, Disney has just done such a terrible job with Star Wars in general that I have lost all interest in the modern Star Wars stuff from the movies and tv shows, to games and books. I'll stick to reading reviews and picking up the stuff that looks good 6 months later to watch at home, or maybe just stream.
So... did anyone ever watch Star Wars for "the story"? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely wondering. As a kid, you saw them for the cool set pieces, the cool action scenes, characters being silly...
So... did anyone ever watch Star Wars for "the story"? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely wondering. As a kid, you saw them for the cool set pieces, the cool action scenes, characters being silly in a brave way or brave in a silly way, special effects and – most important of all – to see a huge, lived-in world to imagine as real, a bit of sci-fi escapism.
Where the prequels failed was IMO the last part. Their world did not feel like an actual place, partially because of the sterile CGI, partially because of the wooden acting. J.J., as much as I'm tired of his routine, doesn't make these mistakes. Who cares if the story doesn't withstand scrutiny (honestly - did the original trilogy's?), you have fun scenes, you have places that look like you can actually touch and smell them, you have characters who show emotion. It's just a big spectacle but it kinda always has been. Maybe there isn't quite an "I am your father" moment (and if there are a few contenders, they feel embarrassingly derivative). But maybe that's because it will always be a franchise reboot, not something new and fresh and original. There's nothing that can ever change that and maybe that's the only real flaw these movies have. They can never have come out in 1985, because time has passed and money has been made.
So, maybe it would be best if these new movies had never been made. Maybe that would make the original trilogy marginally more mysterious and special. Maybe all that time, money and energy would better be spent on coming up with something new rather than re-hashing the Star Wars brand. But as long as you accept that it's simply irresistible to producers to continue milking that franchise, I believe you can enjoy the new J.J. Abrams trilogy.
I just recently saw The Last Jedi and it was... fun! I love the atmosphere of Luke's temple island. I like Mark Hamill's grumpy acting. I like these guys... and of course, this one. I even like Rey's strange mirror hallucinations (?) in the cave, not because of what they do for the story but because they set that weird mood baseline that's easy to miss about the original trilogy (I always forget the weird Dagobah tree scene in Empire Strikes Back, yet it absolutely belongs in there – and in the new film, it is poetry, it does rhyme!). I like that General Hux is played like "Kevin, the evil intern" rather than some menacing figure, it's fun. I like the trip to the casino world, the red sand planet, that big fight in the room drenched in red light.
So, will The Rise of Skywalker be a cinematic masterpiece? Will it be particularly relevant to film history? Will it have deep character arcs and perfectly tie together the three movie plot? Nope. But it's likely still about the best a Star Wars movie can be in 2019. It will be fun. And the new trilogy is so much better than the prequels, it's not even a comparison. Let's not forget that pop culture is still digging itself out of that mess.
He kinda Lost the plot there, I'll admit! But honestly, that's kinda my point: Weirdly, I don't really care. I'm sorry if that comes off as dismissive of the investment of fans actually taking the...
and JJ setup a lot of questions and there didn't seem to be a concrete plan as to what the answers were
He kinda Lost the plot there, I'll admit!
But honestly, that's kinda my point: Weirdly, I don't really care. I'm sorry if that comes off as dismissive of the investment of fans actually taking the storytelling seriously. But I'd argue that it's ultimately not that important. While it would be great (and, in hindsight, might have been "possible" – if unlikely) if they could have come up with a perfect story arc and stick to it, it's ultimately not something that would have a big impact on the movie. You watch Star Wars for laser swords, cool alien worlds and some adventuring. You don't really care about the overall message of good and evil. Hopefully good wins, because it would be sad otherwise. And good will win, we all know that. That's about all there ever was to Star Wars.
See, I think everyone who is complaining about this missed the point. The point was that after 20 years of fans for the most part being utterly disappointed in the world that the prequels created,...
I didn't love TFA because the plot was too similar to ANH
See, I think everyone who is complaining about this missed the point. The point was that after 20 years of fans for the most part being utterly disappointed in the world that the prequels created, and lambasting them, TFA was done like that partly because it was a sane business decision but also to reassure the fans that the property the had beloved for so long would not be like the prequels that it was staying true to the original trilogy. I feel that if they had done what they wanted, fans would have been whining over a departure from the spirit of the original trilogy -- which is what they're mostly whining about with the direction the story has taken these days, too.
And I don't understand why. Moral relativism and the intentional destruction of hierarchies being a fundamentally good thing is an interesting direction to take a trilogy whose mainstay has been "good versus bad" and "order versus chaos". It gives room for the message that TRJ ended on -- that there is no good and bad, there are people, who have the power to take choices that can be good, or bad. And the message that the prequels had -- that people can do bad things and fall into a pattern of doing bad things, for inherently good reasons. Anakin's motivation that led him to the dark side was, at first, to save his wife and her child.
I think it may come down to how much of the expanded universe stuff and non-movie stuff you interacted with. I feel like I could say the same for a large number of rebooted franchises or long...
I think it may come down to how much of the expanded universe stuff and non-movie stuff you interacted with. I feel like I could say the same for a large number of rebooted franchises or long running series.
For Star Wars, in the time since just the original trilogy and the prequels I've read so many expanded universe books which is now non-canon that made it more than a simple fun space story. That it is hard for me to just just ignore it and have fun, cause whenever something that is stupid fun happens I just complain to myself how this doesn't make sense in the larger lore I've been reading about for years even if it isn't lore anymore.
But even in a self contained story ignoring the lore, the movies haven't done a great job telling a story and expanding on the characters and groups. Or even making me care about what is happening and why. I was actually pretty ok with TFA, it set up a bunch of questions and made me want to learn about what was going on. I wanted to read the new lore about how things got to this point and what has happened in the universe in this new canon. Sure it wasn't amazing, but it was good enough.
TLJ for me just ruined so much of that set up though to be unique and unexpected in peoples actions. And even when it had a chance to turn things around with Rey joining Kylo maybe, it ignored it for some reason to return to the status quo. Got rid of the unexplained Snoke for no reason, so you have this powerful figure whose entire story is going to be forced into a book to explain with a terrible ending to his character. New mechanics like that lightspeed jump introduce so many unanswerable questions about why it isn't done more often. Or the terrible chase that makes no sense at all. But at the end of it was a really shiny and big movie that looks pretty, and can be fun to not question and just watch.
I feel like Palpatine coming back in some way is a bit of a cop out. If the leaks are true and Rey is Palpatine's child Spoiler! then I'll be very dissapointed with the story arc and that they...
I feel like Palpatine coming back in some way is a bit of a cop out. If the leaks are true and
Rey is Palpatine's child Spoiler! then I'll be very dissapointed with the story arc and that they chose not to do anything original and to play it safe.
And yet, ironically, when Rian Johnson tried to make something even somewhat original, The Last Jedi faced enormous backlash. Damned if they do, damned if they don't
And yet, ironically, when Rian Johnson tried to make something even somewhat original, The Last Jedi faced enormous backlash.
The problem is that TLJ doesn't answer TFA's questions, it creates more. A good sequel expands on the original, not just throws it away. They could have done the whole sequel trilogy differently,...
The problem is that TLJ doesn't answer TFA's questions, it creates more. A good sequel expands on the original, not just throws it away. They could have done the whole sequel trilogy differently, at least it would be interesting.
The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back Before people skewer me, I still think Empire is the better Star Wars movie. I also find it interesting that it faced similar...
The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back
Before people skewer me, I still think Empire is the better Star Wars movie. I also find it interesting that it faced similar criticisms when it came out, but has gone on to be regarded as the best film in the series.
It didn't really face similar criticisms. Nobody complained that The Last Jedi ended on a cliffhanger or that it was "too dark". And most of the Empire Strikes Back criticism came from critics,...
It didn't really face similar criticisms. Nobody complained that The Last Jedi ended on a cliffhanger or that it was "too dark". And most of the Empire Strikes Back criticism came from critics, while general audiences are the ones divided on The Last Jedi.
Frankly I appreciated What Rian Johnson did. To this day whenever I hear negative feedback with The Last Jedi I tell them just wait, this movie was a setup to something original and unpredictable,...
Frankly I appreciated What Rian Johnson did. To this day whenever I hear negative feedback with The Last Jedi I tell them just wait, this movie was a setup to something original and unpredictable, and it'll pay off. I'm really still holding out and hoping that's the case, and that they don't wimp out of what Rian Johnson was trying to do due to the backlash.
All you should really want to know at this point is that it's another Star Wars. Spoiler trailers are the worst. If you aren't familiar with the general premise and tone of Star Wars at this...
All you should really want to know at this point is that it's another Star Wars. Spoiler trailers are the worst. If you aren't familiar with the general premise and tone of Star Wars at this point, then you're probably not Disney's target market for this film.
Movie posters are so bad these days. The IMAX poster is so much better. Clearly Disney knows how to make good posters, they just refuse to use them in marketing for some ridiculous reason.
Movie posters are so bad these days. The IMAX poster is so much better. Clearly Disney knows how to make good posters, they just refuse to use them in marketing for some ridiculous reason.
While I hate were the story has gone, and feel like it has ruined Star Wars. I'll still end up going to see it just so I can say I'm done with this Star Wars Saga. Cause after this I know I'm not going to see another Star Wars movie in theaters, Disney has just done such a terrible job with Star Wars in general that I have lost all interest in the modern Star Wars stuff from the movies and tv shows, to games and books. I'll stick to reading reviews and picking up the stuff that looks good 6 months later to watch at home, or maybe just stream.
So... did anyone ever watch Star Wars for "the story"? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely wondering. As a kid, you saw them for the cool set pieces, the cool action scenes, characters being silly in a brave way or brave in a silly way, special effects and – most important of all – to see a huge, lived-in world to imagine as real, a bit of sci-fi escapism.
Where the prequels failed was IMO the last part. Their world did not feel like an actual place, partially because of the sterile CGI, partially because of the wooden acting. J.J., as much as I'm tired of his routine, doesn't make these mistakes. Who cares if the story doesn't withstand scrutiny (honestly - did the original trilogy's?), you have fun scenes, you have places that look like you can actually touch and smell them, you have characters who show emotion. It's just a big spectacle but it kinda always has been. Maybe there isn't quite an "I am your father" moment (and if there are a few contenders, they feel embarrassingly derivative). But maybe that's because it will always be a franchise reboot, not something new and fresh and original. There's nothing that can ever change that and maybe that's the only real flaw these movies have. They can never have come out in 1985, because time has passed and money has been made.
So, maybe it would be best if these new movies had never been made. Maybe that would make the original trilogy marginally more mysterious and special. Maybe all that time, money and energy would better be spent on coming up with something new rather than re-hashing the Star Wars brand. But as long as you accept that it's simply irresistible to producers to continue milking that franchise, I believe you can enjoy the new J.J. Abrams trilogy.
I just recently saw The Last Jedi and it was... fun! I love the atmosphere of Luke's temple island. I like Mark Hamill's grumpy acting. I like these guys... and of course, this one. I even like Rey's strange mirror hallucinations (?) in the cave, not because of what they do for the story but because they set that weird mood baseline that's easy to miss about the original trilogy (I always forget the weird Dagobah tree scene in Empire Strikes Back, yet it absolutely belongs in there – and in the new film, it is poetry, it does rhyme!). I like that General Hux is played like "Kevin, the evil intern" rather than some menacing figure, it's fun. I like the trip to the casino world, the red sand planet, that big fight in the room drenched in red light.
So, will The Rise of Skywalker be a cinematic masterpiece? Will it be particularly relevant to film history? Will it have deep character arcs and perfectly tie together the three movie plot? Nope. But it's likely still about the best a Star Wars movie can be in 2019. It will be fun. And the new trilogy is so much better than the prequels, it's not even a comparison. Let's not forget that pop culture is still digging itself out of that mess.
He kinda Lost the plot there, I'll admit!
But honestly, that's kinda my point: Weirdly, I don't really care. I'm sorry if that comes off as dismissive of the investment of fans actually taking the storytelling seriously. But I'd argue that it's ultimately not that important. While it would be great (and, in hindsight, might have been "possible" – if unlikely) if they could have come up with a perfect story arc and stick to it, it's ultimately not something that would have a big impact on the movie. You watch Star Wars for laser swords, cool alien worlds and some adventuring. You don't really care about the overall message of good and evil. Hopefully good wins, because it would be sad otherwise. And good will win, we all know that. That's about all there ever was to Star Wars.
See, I think everyone who is complaining about this missed the point. The point was that after 20 years of fans for the most part being utterly disappointed in the world that the prequels created, and lambasting them, TFA was done like that partly because it was a sane business decision but also to reassure the fans that the property the had beloved for so long would not be like the prequels that it was staying true to the original trilogy. I feel that if they had done what they wanted, fans would have been whining over a departure from the spirit of the original trilogy -- which is what they're mostly whining about with the direction the story has taken these days, too.
And I don't understand why. Moral relativism and the intentional destruction of hierarchies being a fundamentally good thing is an interesting direction to take a trilogy whose mainstay has been "good versus bad" and "order versus chaos". It gives room for the message that TRJ ended on -- that there is no good and bad, there are people, who have the power to take choices that can be good, or bad. And the message that the prequels had -- that people can do bad things and fall into a pattern of doing bad things, for inherently good reasons. Anakin's motivation that led him to the dark side was, at first, to save his wife and her child.
I think it may come down to how much of the expanded universe stuff and non-movie stuff you interacted with. I feel like I could say the same for a large number of rebooted franchises or long running series.
For Star Wars, in the time since just the original trilogy and the prequels I've read so many expanded universe books which is now non-canon that made it more than a simple fun space story. That it is hard for me to just just ignore it and have fun, cause whenever something that is stupid fun happens I just complain to myself how this doesn't make sense in the larger lore I've been reading about for years even if it isn't lore anymore.
But even in a self contained story ignoring the lore, the movies haven't done a great job telling a story and expanding on the characters and groups. Or even making me care about what is happening and why. I was actually pretty ok with TFA, it set up a bunch of questions and made me want to learn about what was going on. I wanted to read the new lore about how things got to this point and what has happened in the universe in this new canon. Sure it wasn't amazing, but it was good enough.
TLJ for me just ruined so much of that set up though to be unique and unexpected in peoples actions. And even when it had a chance to turn things around with Rey joining Kylo maybe, it ignored it for some reason to return to the status quo. Got rid of the unexplained Snoke for no reason, so you have this powerful figure whose entire story is going to be forced into a book to explain with a terrible ending to his character. New mechanics like that lightspeed jump introduce so many unanswerable questions about why it isn't done more often. Or the terrible chase that makes no sense at all. But at the end of it was a really shiny and big movie that looks pretty, and can be fun to not question and just watch.
If you think these movies are bad wait until you see the prequels
I feel like Palpatine coming back in some way is a bit of a cop out. If the leaks are true and
Spoiler!
And yet, ironically, when Rian Johnson tried to make something even somewhat original, The Last Jedi faced enormous backlash.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't
The problem is that TLJ doesn't answer TFA's questions, it creates more. A good sequel expands on the original, not just throws it away. They could have done the whole sequel trilogy differently, at least it would be interesting.
The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back
Before people skewer me, I still think Empire is the better Star Wars movie. I also find it interesting that it faced similar criticisms when it came out, but has gone on to be regarded as the best film in the series.
It didn't really face similar criticisms. Nobody complained that The Last Jedi ended on a cliffhanger or that it was "too dark". And most of the Empire Strikes Back criticism came from critics, while general audiences are the ones divided on The Last Jedi.
Frankly I appreciated What Rian Johnson did. To this day whenever I hear negative feedback with The Last Jedi I tell them just wait, this movie was a setup to something original and unpredictable, and it'll pay off. I'm really still holding out and hoping that's the case, and that they don't wimp out of what Rian Johnson was trying to do due to the backlash.
If the leaks are true this movie will be as bad as the prequels. So I hope they aren't.
Just FYI, it's Palpatine... Palatine is one of the seven hills of Rome. ;)
Here's the poster. Looks okay, but I prefer the teaser poster.
I think this tells me more about the movie than the actual trailer...
I like that the trailer isn't spoiling anything. Other trailers tell you the entire plot of the movie and reveal 70% of the plot twists.
All you should really want to know at this point is that it's another Star Wars. Spoiler trailers are the worst. If you aren't familiar with the general premise and tone of Star Wars at this point, then you're probably not Disney's target market for this film.
Movie posters are so bad these days. The IMAX poster is so much better. Clearly Disney knows how to make good posters, they just refuse to use them in marketing for some ridiculous reason.