I enjoyed this performance immensely. I have not dug into why people are mad at her now, but I also don't idolize musicians so, idk if it matters. She's queer, she's engaging with queer culture....
I enjoyed this performance immensely. I have not dug into why people are mad at her now, but I also don't idolize musicians so, idk if it matters. She's queer, she's engaging with queer culture. Maybe she also sucks, or is young, or something. If she crosses a line it'll be different but again, I haven't paid attention and she's not like Kid Rock or Kanye.
This is actually the problem - people are saying she doesn't engage with queer culture. That she just uses it to get ahead and then leaves everybody else behind. Saying "I'm too busy to be...
She's queer, she's engaging with queer culture.
This is actually the problem - people are saying she doesn't engage with queer culture. That she just uses it to get ahead and then leaves everybody else behind. Saying "I'm too busy to be political", not taking even the most milquetoast of stances. Even Taylor Swift is more political than she is, it seems.
In any case. Yeah, she has some super good songs. Femininomenon is my fave
I'm not saying she's engaging in queer politics or taking the stances that I'd want her to. But I don't look to singers for that leadership either. She's very clearly engaging with queer culture...
I'm not saying she's engaging in queer politics or taking the stances that I'd want her to. But I don't look to singers for that leadership either. She's very clearly engaging with queer culture to me.
I don't look to privileged 20-something musicians for political brilliance. (She probably needs some genuine education before she keeps putting her foot in her mouth)
20-something musicians certainly should not have any say in politics. Should. But they do. And the fact of the matter is that we need someone like her more than ever, because she has a huge...
20-something musicians certainly should not have any say in politics. Should. But they do. And the fact of the matter is that we need someone like her more than ever, because she has a huge platform, and she is not using it for any good whatsoever. And a lot of people in the community feel that she should be using it, because we genuinely are under attack and she's not doing anything about it whatsoever - I bet she knows it would hurt her image too much to be outspoken..
I’m admittedly not up to date on my Chappell Roan lore, but it wasn’t that long ago that she got crucified by her fans for being political, so I can’t really fault her for being gunshy now. Also,...
I’m admittedly not up to date on my Chappell Roan lore, but it wasn’t that long ago that she got crucified by her fans for being political, so I can’t really fault her for being gunshy now.
Also, I think bringing queer joy to others is an inherently political act, especially these days, and she does plenty of that. She used to get credit for it but then opinions seemed to do a 180 and she’s now faulted for it? I don’t really get what made the zeitgeist switch over.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, and if there’s more to the story here then please let me know about it. Whenever I see an internet dogpile starting, especially when it targets a woman, I’m skeptical by default.
She got popular. Practically her whole life is also being recorded now, so everything she does/says (or doesn't want to do/say, as is the case here) is being over analyzed and criticized to death....
I don’t really get what made the zeitgeist switch over.
She got popular. Practically her whole life is also being recorded now, so everything she does/says (or doesn't want to do/say, as is the case here) is being over analyzed and criticized to death. So she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. That and the internet loves to hate on people (women in particular), and tear them down, whether they truly deserve it or not. People are also feeling more scared and helpless than usual these days, so they're looking for anyone to blame for the country's ills. Take your pick. I'm sure they're all playing a part in this to various degrees. :/
100% agree about spreading queer joy being an (unfortunately) inherently political act these days, and a worthwhile/praiseworthy effort on its own, BTW.
I found it interesting that Rick Astley covered one of her songs, for exactly that reason: he always wanted to be a musician, then he had a big hit and walked away for years because he realized he...
I found it interesting that Rick Astley covered one of her songs, for exactly that reason: he always wanted to be a musician, then he had a big hit and walked away for years because he realized he hated being a celebrity. It ceased to be about making music overnight, and became interviews and public appearances and other bullshit.
Imagine just trying to do your job or hobby and constantly being chased down and harassed for your opinion on things, or having people writing nasty things about you online. Having people invade your privacy wherever you go and scrutinizing everything you do.
Nobody is entitled to anything just because someone released some music, appeared in a movie, wrote some software, whatever.
And that's fine, I'm just giving my opinion. I don't judge folks for wanting more/better, though I think women are consistently held to much higher standards on this sort of thing. If she crosses...
And that's fine, I'm just giving my opinion. I don't judge folks for wanting more/better, though I think women are consistently held to much higher standards on this sort of thing.
If she crosses a line, I'll feel different. But afaik she hasn't crossed that line for me. If other folks are done with her, that's their call.
I get being upset when people are an active problem, less so when people don't do something others think they should. I think sometimes we shouldn't pressure everyone to make a statement on X topic. But I'm also aware there's nothing about queerness that's apolitical. I just think we have to stop electing the biggest pop star in the room the spokeswoman for any cause. (And I don't think she thinks it'd hurt her image, because I think it would help her image, she's just not politically savvy IMO)
Everyone's got their lines, she hasn't crossed mine to my knowledge.
In the past I really liked her music and listened to it on repeat, but now find her irritating to listen to and have blocked her on Spotify. She needs to pick a lane. Be political, or don’t be...
In the past I really liked her music and listened to it on repeat, but now find her irritating to listen to and have blocked her on Spotify.
She needs to pick a lane. Be political, or don’t be political. Just don’t be political and then later claim to be above it.
It’s been noted many times: She was political last year and pushed the “both sides” narrative, but now she says pop stars are just too busy to be political ✨~~. I don’t think she really believes that: people are calling her out for promoting a false equivalence between a flawed party and a party that is now literally pulling dissident off streets into vans and setting up multiple Guantanamos, and now she’s trying to play dumb because she’s too busy (but apparently not too busy last year).
Her alternating between seeking attention and then complaining about attention in front of as many cameras and with as many interviewers as possible, is baffling. There are plenty of great artists who create great art and then go home and have a private life.
I feel like you might be reading into her statements too much. My understanding was that she received some backlash last time she tried a political stance, so I think it's reasonable that she...
I feel like you might be reading into her statements too much.
My understanding was that she received some backlash last time she tried a political stance, so I think it's reasonable that she doesn't want to deal with that again. I don't think there's anything more to it than that, I hardly doubt her political views actually vanished overnight.
It's fair criticism that she's all over the place. I think her previous statements demonstrate how uninformed she is on a PR level and it's not shocking to me at all that she's trying to step back...
It's fair criticism that she's all over the place. I think her previous statements demonstrate how uninformed she is on a PR level and it's not shocking to me at all that she's trying to step back from that. But damned either way.
I don't have any interest in electing the musician of any moment to be the political spokeswoman for a generation especially when she's inadequate to the task.
This performance was really well done and was a moment of queer joy for me. And that is what I look to art for.
I like Chappell Roan in general. I own her record due to a drunken night hanging with a friend who likes her. I've got some of her songs on my modded Beat Saber and they're fun to play. But she's...
I like Chappell Roan in general. I own her record due to a drunken night hanging with a friend who likes her. I've got some of her songs on my modded Beat Saber and they're fun to play. But she's so obviously a phony and poser. The election nonsense sealed it. She strikes me as rich and privileged and performative. She's a pop star joke like so many other pop stars. She's Capitalism.
I get the internets frustration, but to me it really feels like crab mentality where we do that thing where we cannibalize each other for not doing enough when we should be directing our rage at...
I get the internets frustration, but to me it really feels like crab mentality where we do that thing where we cannibalize each other for not doing enough when we should be directing our rage at the industry and figureheads who aren't doing anything at all. But it's really easy to get prickly and obtain groupthink in these pop reddit threads where we must eat each other for our faults than our enemies for their sins
I've been avoiding commenting in this topic ever since I posted it, since I was a bit pissed off about how it turned so negative, and didn't want to say anything I regretted in response... But I...
where we must eat each other for our faults than our enemies for their sins
I've been avoiding commenting in this topic ever since I posted it, since I was a bit pissed off about how it turned so negative, and didn't want to say anything I regretted in response... But I just wanted to pop in and say that is the best way I've ever heard these sorts of 'internet outrages caused by purity tests against of our allies' get described. I'm stealing that in the future. So thanks for that, and your level-headed responses. :)
Thank you, friend. Wow, I am grateful to hear it resonated with you :-) now more than ever, balance is key. If this were a battlefield, damn right we take charge at the systemic issues and make...
Thank you, friend. Wow, I am grateful to hear it resonated with you :-) now more than ever, balance is key. If this were a battlefield, damn right we take charge at the systemic issues and make change. But crucifying the drummer boy for playing the drum? Well that is an interesting strategy!
For clarity's sake, the parent comment that was deleted was quoting @ me a reddit comment that currently has around 3k upvotes, saying: My response: That's very emotionally charged rhetoric as...
Exemplary
For clarity's sake, the parent comment that was deleted was quoting @ me a reddit comment that currently has around 3k upvotes, saying:
This is my problem with her too. It's exploitative to cosplay as an inherently political subculture and then turn around and refuse to champion that subculture when they need it most.
My response:
That's very emotionally charged rhetoric as well, thanks. It has nothing qualifying it, it's just hard judgement with zero nuance. If Chappell isn't doing enough, there are surely more constructive ways to call out one of the biggest pop stars "cosplaying" being gay(???) than just calling her a poser over and over.
It's just: how we use our energy and our words matters, and this is not the best use of one's time. "Calling out hypocrisy" is one thing, but again, why are we attacking each other, other queers? She just got handed the keys to the kingdom as a young kid, and now she's a poser exploiting an entire subculture--this is all or nothing thinking and the Internet is very good at banging that gavel
Edit: and I am so sympathetically aware of how painful it is to be queer in today's age and then look at someone fulfilling their wildest dreams so young and wonder how it is that they can make it and we can't. But that's not Chappel's responsibility to fix alone, and it's our responsibility to direct our anger accordingly, efficiently, and fairly.
Love you, all.
Thank you for my first "exemplary" comment, it's been a hard week.
I enjoyed this performance immensely. I have not dug into why people are mad at her now, but I also don't idolize musicians so, idk if it matters. She's queer, she's engaging with queer culture. Maybe she also sucks, or is young, or something. If she crosses a line it'll be different but again, I haven't paid attention and she's not like Kid Rock or Kanye.
This is still a bop that speaks to me.
This is actually the problem - people are saying she doesn't engage with queer culture. That she just uses it to get ahead and then leaves everybody else behind. Saying "I'm too busy to be political", not taking even the most milquetoast of stances. Even Taylor Swift is more political than she is, it seems.
In any case. Yeah, she has some super good songs. Femininomenon is my fave
I'm not saying she's engaging in queer politics or taking the stances that I'd want her to. But I don't look to singers for that leadership either. She's very clearly engaging with queer culture to me.
I don't look to privileged 20-something musicians for political brilliance. (She probably needs some genuine education before she keeps putting her foot in her mouth)
20-something musicians certainly should not have any say in politics. Should. But they do. And the fact of the matter is that we need someone like her more than ever, because she has a huge platform, and she is not using it for any good whatsoever. And a lot of people in the community feel that she should be using it, because we genuinely are under attack and she's not doing anything about it whatsoever - I bet she knows it would hurt her image too much to be outspoken..
I’m admittedly not up to date on my Chappell Roan lore, but it wasn’t that long ago that she got crucified by her fans for being political, so I can’t really fault her for being gunshy now.
Also, I think bringing queer joy to others is an inherently political act, especially these days, and she does plenty of that. She used to get credit for it but then opinions seemed to do a 180 and she’s now faulted for it? I don’t really get what made the zeitgeist switch over.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, and if there’s more to the story here then please let me know about it. Whenever I see an internet dogpile starting, especially when it targets a woman, I’m skeptical by default.
She got popular. Practically her whole life is also being recorded now, so everything she does/says (or doesn't want to do/say, as is the case here) is being over analyzed and criticized to death. So she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. That and the internet loves to hate on people (women in particular), and tear them down, whether they truly deserve it or not. People are also feeling more scared and helpless than usual these days, so they're looking for anyone to blame for the country's ills. Take your pick. I'm sure they're all playing a part in this to various degrees. :/
100% agree about spreading queer joy being an (unfortunately) inherently political act these days, and a worthwhile/praiseworthy effort on its own, BTW.
I found it interesting that Rick Astley covered one of her songs, for exactly that reason: he always wanted to be a musician, then he had a big hit and walked away for years because he realized he hated being a celebrity. It ceased to be about making music overnight, and became interviews and public appearances and other bullshit.
Imagine just trying to do your job or hobby and constantly being chased down and harassed for your opinion on things, or having people writing nasty things about you online. Having people invade your privacy wherever you go and scrutinizing everything you do.
Nobody is entitled to anything just because someone released some music, appeared in a movie, wrote some software, whatever.
And that's fine, I'm just giving my opinion. I don't judge folks for wanting more/better, though I think women are consistently held to much higher standards on this sort of thing.
If she crosses a line, I'll feel different. But afaik she hasn't crossed that line for me. If other folks are done with her, that's their call.
I get being upset when people are an active problem, less so when people don't do something others think they should. I think sometimes we shouldn't pressure everyone to make a statement on X topic. But I'm also aware there's nothing about queerness that's apolitical. I just think we have to stop electing the biggest pop star in the room the spokeswoman for any cause. (And I don't think she thinks it'd hurt her image, because I think it would help her image, she's just not politically savvy IMO)
Everyone's got their lines, she hasn't crossed mine to my knowledge.
In the past I really liked her music and listened to it on repeat, but now find her irritating to listen to and have blocked her on Spotify.
She needs to pick a lane. Be political, or don’t be political. Just don’t be political and then later claim to be above it.
It’s been noted many times: She was political last year and pushed the “both sides” narrative, but now she says pop stars are just too busy to be political ✨~~. I don’t think she really believes that: people are calling her out for promoting a false equivalence between a flawed party and a party that is now literally pulling dissident off streets into vans and setting up multiple Guantanamos, and now she’s trying to play dumb because she’s too busy (but apparently not too busy last year).
Her alternating between seeking attention and then complaining about attention in front of as many cameras and with as many interviewers as possible, is baffling. There are plenty of great artists who create great art and then go home and have a private life.
I feel like you might be reading into her statements too much.
My understanding was that she received some backlash last time she tried a political stance, so I think it's reasonable that she doesn't want to deal with that again. I don't think there's anything more to it than that, I hardly doubt her political views actually vanished overnight.
It's fair criticism that she's all over the place. I think her previous statements demonstrate how uninformed she is on a PR level and it's not shocking to me at all that she's trying to step back from that. But damned either way.
I don't have any interest in electing the musician of any moment to be the political spokeswoman for a generation especially when she's inadequate to the task.
This performance was really well done and was a moment of queer joy for me. And that is what I look to art for.
Uh, no. I just haven't kept up on a take down of someone whose politics I don't follow.
I like Chappell Roan in general. I own her record due to a drunken night hanging with a friend who likes her. I've got some of her songs on my modded Beat Saber and they're fun to play. But she's so obviously a phony and poser. The election nonsense sealed it. She strikes me as rich and privileged and performative. She's a pop star joke like so many other pop stars. She's Capitalism.
Maybe I don't like her in general.
I get the internets frustration, but to me it really feels like crab mentality where we do that thing where we cannibalize each other for not doing enough when we should be directing our rage at the industry and figureheads who aren't doing anything at all. But it's really easy to get prickly and obtain groupthink in these pop reddit threads where we must eat each other for our faults than our enemies for their sins
I've been avoiding commenting in this topic ever since I posted it, since I was a bit pissed off about how it turned so negative, and didn't want to say anything I regretted in response... But I just wanted to pop in and say that is the best way I've ever heard these sorts of 'internet outrages caused by purity tests against of our allies' get described. I'm stealing that in the future. So thanks for that, and your level-headed responses. :)
Thank you, friend. Wow, I am grateful to hear it resonated with you :-) now more than ever, balance is key. If this were a battlefield, damn right we take charge at the systemic issues and make change. But crucifying the drummer boy for playing the drum? Well that is an interesting strategy!
Hope you have a good weekend!
LOL, you definitely have a way with words, and making apt comparisons.. :P
Thanks, you too! :)
For clarity's sake, the parent comment that was deleted was quoting @ me a reddit comment that currently has around 3k upvotes, saying:
My response:
That's very emotionally charged rhetoric as well, thanks. It has nothing qualifying it, it's just hard judgement with zero nuance. If Chappell isn't doing enough, there are surely more constructive ways to call out one of the biggest pop stars "cosplaying" being gay(???) than just calling her a poser over and over.
It's just: how we use our energy and our words matters, and this is not the best use of one's time. "Calling out hypocrisy" is one thing, but again, why are we attacking each other, other queers? She just got handed the keys to the kingdom as a young kid, and now she's a poser exploiting an entire subculture--this is all or nothing thinking and the Internet is very good at banging that gavel
Edit: and I am so sympathetically aware of how painful it is to be queer in today's age and then look at someone fulfilling their wildest dreams so young and wonder how it is that they can make it and we can't. But that's not Chappel's responsibility to fix alone, and it's our responsibility to direct our anger accordingly, efficiently, and fairly.
Love you, all.
Thank you for my first "exemplary" comment, it's been a hard week.